cannot repoduce and missing track file Boresighting Mavericks

[RyanR]

As far as I can tell, every DCS update makes every tutorial obsolete..... and the F-16 manual is basically non-existent.

Every time I try to use the TGP to hand off to the AGM-65 (TMS right), I get nothing. The Maverick seeker head is just not aligned with the TGP. I'm guessing that the Maverick boresighting needs to be done. The rub is that all the tutorials I've found to boresight the Mavericks not only don't boresight the Mavericks, they decouple the Maverick seeker head from the HUD symbology.

What's the fix?

After decades of WWII and Korean sims, I'm finally getting back to scratching the F-16 itch. The original Falcon got me started in 1988, and the Viper in DCS is sooooo much better, and a worthy successor to the original Falcon. The last release of that was pretty iffy. DCS is quite good. I fully expect the learning curve to be huge, but it's just frustrating trying to figure out if I'm simply being an idiot.... or if there's something not right in the sim. For example, I spent hours trying to figure out the HSD datalink issue, to find that it was a bug..... then I found the work around.... but then the last update fixed it. All within a 3 day period.

Thanks!

-Ryan

 

[Sn0wMan4]

Does this help?

[RyanR]

8 hours ago, Sn0wMan4 said:

Does this help?

 

Thanks for the response!

This is one of the videos leading me astray. I thought it would be the cure! No luck. I've tried putting dummy vehicles at several ranges to eliminate parallax. 

If this is working for everyone else, then there's a problem on my end. I'll give it another go. See if I can figure out where the missteps are.

Thanks again!

-Ryan

 

 

[Sn0wMan4]

22 minutes ago, RyanR said:

 

Thanks for the response!

This is one of the videos leading me astray. I thought it would be the cure! No luck. I've tried putting dummy vehicles at several ranges to eliminate parallax. 

If this is working for everyone else, then there's a problem on my end. I'll give it another go. See if I can figure out where the missteps are.

Thanks again!

-Ryan

 

 

Random question but are you having the problem using old mission saves? I've had the boresight go completely wonky mid-flight from a hot start. I can't determine how to reproduce it but it shows up.

[RyanR]

1 hour ago, Sn0wMan4 said:

Random question but are you having the problem using old mission saves? I've had the boresight go completely wonky mid-flight from a hot start. I can't determine how to reproduce it but it shows up.

So far, I've been doing cold starts exclusively, and using my own little home made practice/learning missions. I've been trying to have a controlled environment so I can see the connection from unit placement to how the avionics picks things up. I dunno if continuously repurposing the mission and/or rearming the plane is causing trouble.

From another recent thread, it seems there's trouble with the 3-Maverick pylons. The boresight apparently only "takes" for the "first" missile on each station.  

For me, a problem is that if I boresight the Mavericks, the seeker cue in the HUD is completely off kilter from the WPN display when I have it in VIS mode. If I don't boresight and don't use the targeting pod, the Mavericks work OK, but their ability to discriminate targets from far off is super limited. Anytime I use the TGP with the Mavericks, everything goes wrong.

The targeting pod works flawlessly with the AG radar and every other type of munition. TGP with Mavericks has been nothing but trouble.

-Ryan

[rob10]

Post a short track of what you're doing to align the MAV (you can save a track from from the debrief screen that comes up when you end a mission).  Someone will likely spot some little thing that you're doing or missing that is causing your issue.  They likely won't get it from any description you give since you're not aware it's part of the problem.

[RyanR]

2 hours ago, rob10 said:

Post a short track of what you're doing to align the MAV (you can save a track from from the debrief screen that comes up when you end a mission).  Someone will likely spot some little thing that you're doing or missing that is causing your issue.  They likely won't get it from any description you give since you're not aware it's part of the problem.

 

Not knowing what I don't know is a great point! Thanks for telling me how to save a track, too!

-Ryan

[RyanR]

Hi guys,

I think I got it. I managed to mix up things from two different videos. I noticed after re-re-watching the Gaffer vid above that he does not "unlock" the vehicle that he boresighted on afterwards. He just goes on. That seems to be the trick.

I put a Jeep about 1.3nm downfield. Boresighted on that. Put the plane back in NAV master mode and went off to find some things to blow up. Locking on a vehicle with the targeting pod and then TMS right pointed the MAV right at what I was looking at with the TGP. Then you have to chase the vehicle with the MAV in the WPN page to get it locked. Gotta keep playing around with it, I suppose.

Should the MAV "auto lock" after the TGP handoff? I'm well within range (6nm) of the MAV. 

Thanks all.

-Ryan

 

[silverdevil]

17 minutes ago, RyanR said:

Hi guys,

I think I got it. I managed to mix up things from two different videos. I noticed after re-re-watching the Gaffer vid above that he does not "unlock" the vehicle that he boresighted on afterwards. He just goes on. That seems to be the trick.

I put a Jeep about 1.3nm downfield. Boresighted on that. Put the plane back in NAV master mode and went off to find some things to blow up. Locking on a vehicle with the targeting pod and then TMS right pointed the MAV right at what I was looking at with the TGP. Then you have to chase the vehicle with the MAV in the WPN page to get it locked. Gotta keep playing around with it, I suppose.

Should the MAV "auto lock" after the TGP handoff? I'm well within range (6nm) of the MAV. 

Thanks all.

-Ryan

i am attaching a kneeboard that a fellow squad mate made. does this help?

 

Edited March 4 by silverdevil

[rob10]

1 hour ago, RyanR said:

I put a Jeep about 1.3nm downfield. Boresighted on that.

That could be part of your problem.  You've now boresighted the MAV to 1.3 nm and likely "in the field" you're attempting to target something 8-10 nm away.  That leaves a lot of room for error since boresighting is basically setting what the "proper" angle between the 2 sensors is and at 10 nm that's going to be different than 1.3 nm.  Boresighting on a much more distant object is usually recommended in the forums for better consistency.

[QuiGon]

10 hours ago, rob10 said:

That could be part of your problem.  You've now boresighted the MAV to 1.3 nm and likely "in the field" you're attempting to target something 8-10 nm away.  That leaves a lot of room for error since boresighting is basically setting what the "proper" angle between the 2 sensors is and at 10 nm that's going to be different than 1.3 nm.  Boresighting on a much more distant object is usually recommended in the forums for better consistency.

This

Performing the boresighting procedure on a target that is just 1.3nm away and then actually employing the Mavericks on targets that are probably much further away will produce quite a decent amount of parallax error. To avoid that you should perform the boresighting procedure on a target that is at the same distance that you plan on engaging targets.

Edited March 4 by QuiGon

[Furiz]

1 hour ago, QuiGon said:

Performing the boresighting procedure on a target that is just 1.3nm away and then actually employing the Mavericks on targets that are probably much further away will produce quite a decent amount of parallax error. To avoid that you should perform the boresighting procedure on a target that is at the same distance that you plan on engaging targets.

Yeah that's the best way to do it,

in my experience with employing Maverick it is best to boresight at 5-7nm, cause that's the most likely the distance it will get a lock and it will be fired from.

[RyanR]

Thanks soooo very much, all! It's very much appreciated. I'm really enjoying DCS and the F-16. The community has been so helpful. 

So parallax *is* a problem. I'll keep at it. So far, I did have pretty good luck with the Maverick boresight at just a couple miles. The trick was just keeping the TGP and WPN pages "locked" afterwards. I'll set my "boresight target" a bit further out, and try again.

 

23 hours ago, silverdevil said:

i am attaching a kneeboard that a fellow squad mate made. does this help?

 

I'll give this a try! Thanks a bunch!

-Ryan

[RyanR]

I moved my boresight target out 5nm, or so. I also learned how to add to the excellent tutorial to the kneeboard. Thank you very much!

All seems to work fine with stationary targets. FCR puts the TGP right on target, TMS right puts the MAV cross hairs right where they need to be, DMS to the WPN, then a TMS up on the WPN page gets a good lock without any slewing.

Now I just need to review and practice the TMS/DMS/CMDS four-ways. You can get so far in before you need to step back and re-read everything to get the remaining niggles out of the workflow.

Thanks, All!!

-Ryan 

Edited March 5 by RyanR

[RyanR]

I'm having good luck now with 2nm boresights on static ground vehicles. IR Mavericks lock right up when 7nm out. All 6 Mavericks work pretty well. The "bug" reported in the T-Pod thread seems to not be a bug.

Reading up and figuring out the nuances of the T-pod is really helping. Unlearning bad habits from other sims is helping, too.

-Ryan

[void68]

Well, understanding the "why do we boresight" is essential and I've already written the answer in 3 other threads already. Simple forum search would have helped.

[RyanR]

The funny thing is that this is not a problem at all anymore. I just do it, and it works.

What prompted this thread was a couple changes in a recent update that made some tutorials obsolete.

The key is to learn what it looks like when the ground boresight "takes", and when it doesn't. When the boresight "highlights", and then un-highlights, you know you're good. You can cycle the two stations and see that they're boresighted. 

So many threads like this happen because you messed something up, and then it doesn't work when you're starting down a SAM site. I think screw-ups around SAM sites cause most posts around here.

I'm appreciative that the community is top notch.

-Ryan

[AngryViper.101]

12 hours ago, RyanR said:

The funny thing is that this is not a problem at all anymore. I just do it, and it works.

What prompted this thread was a couple changes in a recent update that made some tutorials obsolete.

The key is to learn what it looks like when the ground boresight "takes", and when it doesn't. When the boresight "highlights", and then un-highlights, you know you're good. You can cycle the two stations and see that they're boresighted. 

So many threads like this happen because you messed something up, and then it doesn't work when you're starting down a SAM site. I think screw-ups around SAM sites cause most posts around here.

I'm appreciative that the community is top notch.

-Ryan

100%

And it is always good to pick a smaller vehicle (friendly unit) on the map, do a fly-by and check if your boresight was accurate (both pylons!) prior to flying toward the engagement area ...

I only head out toward target area ones I have at least verified that my bore sighting was accurate enough, and I always boresight at least 4 miles distance.

[Zergburger]

to be clear, boresighting mavs on the ground is not realistic. Part of the reason you are required to boresight them is the jostling from taxi/takeoff.

The intention is that you boresight them in the air.

Generally a viper will ahve a steerpoint on large landmark (large solo building / bridge / etc.) before the IP/TGT area so that it can be used for boresighting and INS drift calibrations.

Edited April 11 by Zergburger

[Spartan111sqn]

On 3/3/2024 at 6:24 PM, RyanR said:

So far, I've been doing cold starts exclusively, and using my own little home made practice/learning missions. I've been trying to have a controlled environment so I can see the connection from unit placement to how the avionics picks things up. I dunno if continuously repurposing the mission and/or rearming the plane is causing trouble.

From another recent thread, it seems there's trouble with the 3-Maverick pylons. The boresight apparently only "takes" for the "first" missile on each station.  

For me, a problem is that if I boresight the Mavericks, the seeker cue in the HUD is completely off kilter from the WPN display when I have it in VIS mode. If I don't boresight and don't use the targeting pod, the Mavericks work OK, but their ability to discriminate targets from far off is super limited. Anytime I use the TGP with the Mavericks, everything goes wrong.

The targeting pod works flawlessly with the AG radar and every other type of munition. TGP with Mavericks has been nothing but trouble.

-Ryan

Still the problem with the pilon for 3 mavs?

[skywalker22]

On 4/11/2024 at 2:35 AM, Zergburger said:

to be clear, boresighting mavs on the ground is not realistic. Part of the reason you are required to boresight them is the jostling from taxi/takeoff.

The intention is that you boresight them in the air.

Generally a viper will ahve a steerpoint on large landmark (large solo building / bridge / etc.) before the IP/TGT area so that it can be used for boresighting and INS drift calibrations.

 

In the middie of the desert? What you can find there to boresight?

Waiting for some more populated map.

[Furiz]

1 hour ago, skywalker22 said:

In the middie of the desert? What you can find there to boresight?

Waiting for some more populated map.

I usually say the same, but then I figured out using AG radar helps locate those small settlements, there is usually a house or a car you can boresight to.

[RyanR]

14 hours ago, Spartan111sqn said:

Still the problem with the pilon for 3 mavs?

That problem seems to have gotten fixed. My problem wasn't a problem. Apparently there's a new problem since the 4/10 update. I haven't encountered it yet.

-Ryan

 

[RyanR]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:35 PM, Zergburger said:

to be clear, boresighting mavs on the ground is not realistic. Part of the reason you are required to boresight them is the jostling from taxi/takeoff.

I'm sure there's also the initial offset from the TGP from simply putting the missiles on the jet. The ground boresight at least gets the seeker in the right ballpark to ease a proper boresight in the air. Opportunities to boresight seem to be pretty fleeting in the NTTR.

-Ryan

[Hobel]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb skywalker22:

In the middie of the desert? What you can find there to boresight?

Waiting for some more populated map.

Wingman

 

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/a-10-pilot-explains-why-warthog-drivers-often-boresight-the-agm-65-maverick-on-wingman-rather-than-on-a-ground-target/amp/

Edited April 16 by Hobel