F-4E Phantom II Development Update and Release Delay Announcement

[Hiob]

4 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

if they don't maintain it who will... it wont magically update itself ?

Of course not. But as I mentioned. The chromium core is an open source project that is maintained and improved on by the community. How much of the maintenance is useful to you project, depend on how it is implemented. Are you using it as it is or have your own heavily forked flavor.

That‘s why I didn’t want to explore that rabbit hole. I simply choose to trust Heatblur and ED to take all those aspects into account.

[VpR81]

9 hours ago, hermes7226 said:

An interesting story about the new Jester, which shows that developers of new modules do not need to develop their own artificial second crew members. It is enough to obtain an HB license for the basic Jester and adapt it to your plane/helicopter. As a result, we achieved advanced AI in all modules. In the case of the general management principle, great!

This. I hope a lot of devs take advantage of HBs offer, as this would highly improve the multicrew modules we have right now. Same goes for Razbams IFF logic, wich they said will be available for other devs as well, for free IIRC.  

[Moxica]

Sad news, but I'm cheering for Heatblur's fantastic attitude and work ethics.
Godspeed guys!
(One also says "Guy" about girls nowadays, right?. Well I do anyway; Girls included.)

 

Edited March 17, 2024 by Moxica

[Raisuli]

2 hours ago, Hiob said:

Of course not. But as I mentioned. The chromium core is an open source project that is maintained and improved on by the community. How much of the maintenance is useful to you project, depend on how it is implemented. Are you using it as it is or have your own heavily forked flavor.

That‘s why I didn’t want to explore that rabbit hole. I simply choose to trust Heatblur and ED to take all those aspects into account.

I wish it was that simple, but I'm actually in the software business working for a small, indi developer, and I know how it generally works where the code hits the compiler.  Right now I'm trying hard to resist the urge to cancel my pre-order just on the Chromium issue.  Couldn't care less about the delays, but the more I think about the underlying structure of HBUI as described the less I like it.

[NoodI]

its fine stop whining no ones gonna hack ur phantom

 

[Q3ark]

46 minutes ago, Raisuli said:

I wish it was that simple, but I'm actually in the software business working for a small, indi developer, and I know how it generally works where the code hits the compiler.  Right now I'm trying hard to resist the urge to cancel my pre-order just on the Chromium issue.  Couldn't care less about the delays, but the more I think about the underlying structure of HBUI as described the less I like it.

What you have said boils down to “trust me bro”.

I’ll trust heatblur to know what they are doing over some random people on the forums. Unless you can come up with some evidence that shows the way they have implemented chromium is going to be a problem.

[Moxica]

Good thing about a jet engine; It eventually stops whining.

[Raisuli]

10 minutes ago, Q3ark said:

What you have said boils down to “trust me bro”.

I’ll trust heatblur to know what they are doing over some random people on the forums. Unless you can come up with some evidence that shows the way they have implemented chromium is going to be a problem.

Good!  There's nothing worse than 'news' articles that begin 'I'm an <insert subject here> expert and these are the seven things you should never do/say...".  I base my decisions on my knowledge and experience, and so should you.  Get educated and make an informed choice, or believe who you choose and follow along. 

The latter is generally the path of least resistance.

[badger7966]

Im totally fine with this and I appreciate the testing that goes into any release....In glad to receive a better release product.

 

I can wait...thank you.

[bfr]

1 hour ago, badger7966 said:

Im totally fine with this and I appreciate the testing that goes into any release....In glad to receive a better release product.

 

I can wait...thank you.

And one particular bright spot amongst the announcement is the performance looks like its going to be pretty decent considering how far it looked like they were pushing the envelope in the previews issued to date.

[Despayre]

3 hours ago, Moxica said:

Good thing about a jet engine; It eventually stops whining.

Soo... pretty solid proof that the DCS forums aren't a jet engine then.

[TheFreshPrince]

Respect for the detailed explanation of the delay, many companies would just write a standard apology text. Wish you the best to fix all the problems very soon. 

[cavalier889]

Listen HB, I've been waiting for some planes for literal decades. Just get it right and then release. Anyone left of the DCS faithful that still yells, 'just release it and fix it later,' is a fool. Still waiting for Eurofighter, BTW (and I'll keep waiting as long as I keep breathing).

[markturner1960]

I say thanks for the detailed and honest explanation and that I am very happy to wait, although dissapointed. However, I am disgusted by the attitudes and negative comments I have come across regarding this, honestly, some people are like spoilt kids. Its simple really, if you dont like the idea of paying something before you get it, then dont, wait until release. to me, paying a pre order is a show of support for the developers, and if we did not support and encourage them, we would not have the excellent modules we all love to fly so much. So please ignore the cry babies and bitchers, and we look forwards to the module when it releases. 

[Hiob]

11 hours ago, Moxica said:

Good thing about a jet engine; It eventually stops whining.

This wins "comment of the day" for me! Perfect. 

[Fromthedeep]

2 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

paying a pre order is a show of support for the developers, and if we did not support and encourage them, we would not have the excellent modules we all love to fly so much.

The developers should be 'supported and encouraged' by friends and family, not customers who are buying a product. If what your implying is correct and modules are impossible to make without being funded in advance by customers then it stops being a viable business venture and it deserves to fail. They aren't doing us any favors. No company is owed any gratitude, they get their money, make their profit and the customer hopefully gets the product that they want. If that's not possible then don't make modules. So what if I don't get to play pretend fighter pilot in a video game? Who cares?

[Q3ark]

37 minutes ago, Fromthedeep said:

The developers should be 'supported and encouraged' by friends and family, not customers who are buying a product.

Nobody said that, you’re making stuff up to create an argument.

[Hiob]

56 minutes ago, Fromthedeep said:

The developers should be 'supported and encouraged' by friends and family, not customers who are buying a product.

Unfortunately, a business is driven by money and not by thoughts and prayers.

56 minutes ago, Fromthedeep said:

If what your implying is correct and modules are impossible to make without being funded in advance by customers then it stops being a viable business venture and it deserves to fail. 

Myriads of successful kickstarter campaigns beg to differ...

 

In the end, the key aspect of pre-ordering is: It's voluntary. If you don't like the inherent risk - don't do it.

Edited March 18, 2024 by Hiob

[Bozon]

https://store.heatblur.com/blogs/news/of-delays-and-silence

To Heatblur,

I appreciate the sincerity of the post. It sounds like you really put your best effort into it, but sh!t does happens sometimes. I also appreciate perfectionism and the aspiration to deliver a perfect product.

Please go ahead and deliver us the best Phantom sim ever.

Edited March 18, 2024 by Bozon

[Trooper117]

No problem here, take as long as you need to rectify the fault... I'll still be waiting for the release, and I certainly will not be refunding! Keep up the good work chaps... now, back to the Huey... 

[Iron Sights]

Thanks for the update. I’m sure it is going to be spectacular when it does release. Best to take the time to make sure it is right, then to release it in a bad state. 

[addman]

1 hour ago, Hiob said:

 

In the end, the key aspect of pre-ordering is: It's voluntary. If you don't like the inherent risk - don't do it.

 

Yep, key right there. That’s why I haven’t even pre-ordered the F-4. Pre-order EARLY ACCESS? yeah, no thanks.. It’s not like there’s a limited amount of licenses on release day right?If developers don’t get money before they even release the product, more incentive to crunch and release right? I mean look at Star Citizen, worst and most extreme example of pay now and maybe get something down the line.

[Fromthedeep]

2 hours ago, Hiob said:

the end, the key aspect of pre-ordering is: It's voluntary. If you don't like the inherent risk - don't do it.

The guy I was answering was specifically arguing how people should support and encourage developers and they should pre order.

My point is that they aren't owed any pre orders, they aren't owed support and encouragement and no one is morally obligated the fund anyone's financially risky projects. For every successful Kickstarter and community funded projects there are hundreds that failed. No one is obligated to make sure that the developers get to achieve their goals, the responsibility is theirs and not the customers'.

[Hiob]

22 minutes ago, Fromthedeep said:

My point is that they aren't owed any pre orders, they aren't owed support and encouragement and no one is morally obligated the fund anyone's financially risky projects. For every successful Kickstarter and community funded projects there are hundreds that failed. No one is obligated to make sure that the developers get to achieve their goals, the responsibility is theirs and not the customers'.

Yeah, but absolutely nobody suggested that. HB didn't ask for it, they just offered the option. Absolutely nobody was forced to pre-order in the slightest. Incentivized, perhaps. But not forced. 

And delays are by no means something out of the ordinary. Anybody who considers pre-ordering should at least be so informed to know that. And if he/she isnt, that's on them, not on Heatblur.

[draconus]

6 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

Its simple really, if you dont like the idea of paying something before you get it, then dont, wait until release.

Everybody has different expectations and is going to bear different delays. Yours limit hasn't been reached yet to be mad but you'd think otherwise if it was a year, or maybe 2, wouldn't you?

btw: I didn't see any outrageous comments.

Edited March 18, 2024 by draconus