Fulda Gap

[Dragon1-1]

I'd expect there'd be plenty of data for Germany of that era, including maps and such. The border that they showed looks more 80s than modern, though I haven't actually been to the place. Due to huge US presence and general NATO interest in the area, it's quite well documented.

[QuiGon]

Just a reminder (6:15)

And another reminder (1:13:58)

 

Edited April 22, 2024 by QuiGon

[Stratos]

Do we have a single variant of planes used in the mid to late 80's? 

[Northstar98]

On 4/22/2024 at 10:47 AM, Stratos said:

Do we have a single variant of planes used in the mid to late 80's? 

For player modules, of the right timeframe and in theatre during that timeframe. I'll be quite strict and where there's caveats I'll mark them with an asterisk:

• Both F-4Es fit into that timeframe (DSCG is supposed to cover mid 1970s - mid 1990s, DMAS will cover the late 70s/early 80s up to the mid 1990s at least IIRC).
• Tornado IDS (just about, though depending on how different the avionics it could represent an earlier 1980s aircraft).
• 9-12/9-12A MiG-29
• MiG-21bis
• MiG-23MLA (if it ever comes)
• Mi-24P
• *UH-1H(?)

For AI aircraft:

• *An-26 (I think the countermeasures might be a more modern addition)
• Mi-24V
• MiG-27K
• Su-17M4
• Su-24M
• Su-24MR

For the VVS Group of Forces in Germany (as it was known from May 1980 - 1993), the best place I've found so far is this (scroll down until you find the 1980 Organisation).

 

For other aircraft (player and AI) that weren't necessarily in theatre, but were otherwise around for the timeframe:

• A-6E (Depending on the exact version)
• A-7E
• A-50
• AH-1W (without the AGM-114K, only the AGM-114B was around for the AH-1W in the 1980s)
• AH-64A (though again, not with the AGM-114K, only the AGM-114A and AGM-114C was around for the US Army in the 1980s)
• C-101EB/CC
• CH-47D
• F-5E
• *F-5E-3 (Asterisk is here purely because it's somewhat of a hybrid, but it does still fit in the timeframe)
• F-14A-135-GR (early)
• F-14B (just)
• F-104 (depending on variant)
• G.91R/3 /R/4
• Il-76MD (though would've likely had its tail guns fitted).
• Il-78
• KA-6D
• Ka-27PL
• L-39C
• L-39ZA
• Mi-26
• Mirage F1BE, CE and EE.
• MiG-23MLD
• MiG-25PD
• MiG-25RBT
• 9-13S MiG-29S (without the R-77)
• SH-60B
• Su-25
• Su-27S
• UH-60A
• Tu-22M3
• *Tu-95MS6 (though not with missile it's armed with).
• *Tu-142 (depends on what variant it's supposed to be, the missile it has available isn't accurate for any variant AFAIK)

So a pretty decent showing, particularly from AI aircraft.

Edited May 11, 2024 by Northstar98
A-10A is an early 1990s LASTE variant - thanks NATO

[Tom Kazansky]

.

[MAXsenna]

To be honest I didn't expect this so soon!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Tom Kazansky]

26 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

To be honest I didn't expect this so soon!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Me neither, and it is still to good to be true. Like many German users here there would be a (small) chance that our home towns are part of this map. I would be too hyped to post my feelings if this came true.

[MAXsenna]

Me neither, and it is still to good to be true. Like many German users here there would be a (small) chance that our home towns are part of this map. I would be too hyped to post my feelings if this came true.

I can totally see that!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[draconus]

On 4/20/2024 at 9:09 AM, Northstar98 said:

kinda looks like it could be a Cold War Germany map, depicting the inner German border between the GDR and the FRG

It is indeed a nice try to depict the border from the times.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1969_DDR_Grenzschutzanlagen.pdf#/media/File:System_of_gdr_border_fortification.jpg

[upyr1]

On 4/22/2024 at 4:47 AM, Stratos said:

Do we have a single variant of planes used in the mid to late 80's? 

Yes we do. MiG-21 Bis, Mirage F1, Mirage 2kc, Uh-1H, I believe the F-5E, the F-4E will be a later variant. The F-14 variants are 1990s but as long as you don't do Air to mud will pass for the 80s. Then the A-6 and A-7 will be 1980s variants as will the MiG-29. The upcoming fitter and if the mess with razbam gets cleared up the Mig-23.

The Flaming Cliffs planes 

We're missing a period Hornet,  Viper, and an early F-15E. 

[Peterik]

Is this an confirmation? 

[MAXsenna]

Is this an confirmation? 

Sure is!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[SlipHavoc]

On 4/22/2024 at 4:10 AM, Northstar98 said:

For player modules, of the right timeframe and in theatre during that timeframe. I'll be quite strict and where there's caveats I'll mark them with an asterisk:

• Both F-4Es fit into that timeframe (DSCG is supposed to cover mid 1970s - mid 1990s, DMAS will cover the late 70s/early 80s up to the mid 1990s at least IIRC).
• Tornado IDS (just about, though depending on how different the avionics it could represent an earlier 1980s aircraft).
• 9-12/9-12A MiG-29
• MiG-21bis
• MiG-23MLA (if it ever comes)
• Mi-24P
• *UH-1H(?)

For AI aircraft:

• *An-26 (I think the countermeasures might be a more modern addition)
• Mi-24V
• MiG-27K
• Su-17M4
• Su-24M
• Su-24MR

For the VVS Group of Forces in Germany (as it was known from May 1980 - 1993), the best place I've found so far is this (scroll down until you find the 1980 Organisation).

 

For other aircraft (player and AI) that weren't necessarily in theatre, but were otherwise around for the timeframe:

• A-6E (Depending on the exact version)
• A-7E
• A-50
• AH-1W (without the AGM-114K, only the AGM-114B was around for the AH-1W in the 1980s)
• AH-64A (though again, not with the AGM-114K, only the AGM-114A and AGM-114C was around for the US Army in the 1980s)
• C-101EB/CC
• CH-47D
• F-5E
• *F-5E-3
• F-14A-135-GR (early)
• F-14B (just)
• F-104 (depending on variant)
• G.91R/3 /R/4
• Il-76MD (though would've likely had its tail guns fitted).
• Il-78
• KA-6D
• Ka-27PL
• L-39C
• L-39ZA
• Mi-26
• Mirage F1BE, CE and EE.
• MiG-23MLD
• MiG-25PD
• MiG-25RBT
• 9-13S MiG-29S (without the R-77)
• SH-60B
• UH-60A
• Tu-22M3
• *Tu-95MS6 (though not with missile it's armed with).
• *Tu-142 (depends on what variant it's supposed to be, the missile it has available isn't accurate for any variant AFAIK)

So a pretty decent showing, particularly from AI aircraft.

 

No A-10A, Su-25A, Su-27, MB-339, or Mirage 2000C?  The F-15C was around as well, though possibly with an asterisk, as the game version supposedly has the APG-63(V)1, which was a late '90s/early 2000s radar, but given the level of detail in the FC3 radars I'm not sure that makes much difference.

[Northstar98]

6 hours ago, SlipHavoc said:

No A-10A, Su-25, Su-27

These are omissions on my part - apologies.

6 hours ago, SlipHavoc said:

MB-339

Is a post 1980s MLU variant. I'm only listing aircraft where we have a version that existed during the 1980s.

6 hours ago, SlipHavoc said:

or Mirage 2000C?

Again, not a 1980s variant (RDI w/ NCTR), so it doesn't go on this list.

6 hours ago, SlipHavoc said:

The F-15C was around as well

But not our one, see above.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 4/22/2024 at 10:50 AM, Tom Kazansky said:

Me neither, and it is still to good to be true. Like many German users here there would be a (small) chance that our home towns are part of this map. I would be too hyped to post my feelings if this came true.

Especially if you can find the homes of those you have a strong dislike for!

[Tom Kazansky]

33 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Especially if you can find the homes of those you have a strong dislike for!

[MAXsenna]

Especially if you can find the homes of those you have a strong dislike for!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[NATO]

On 4/25/2024 at 3:09 AM, Northstar98 said:

These are omissions on my part - apologies.

Is a post 1980s MLU variant. I'm only listing aircraft where we have a version that existed during the 1980s.

Again, not a 1980s variant (RDI w/ NCTR), so it doesn't go on this list.

But not our one, see above.

To be fair, in regards to the A-10A it is actually an early 90's LASTE variant, so you were correct the first time. Our cold war hog pilots would need to become proficient in bombing tables and reticle depression attacks and do without a lot of the bells and whistles we enjoy in our modules.

Edited May 11, 2024 by NATO

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, NATO said:

To be fair, in regards to the A-10A it is actually an early 90's LASTE variant, so you were correct the first time.

In which case, I'll correct the correction - thanks

[Silver_Dragon]

Other "Strangle" pic, from the last newsletter...

 

[twistking]

5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Other "Strangle" pic, from the last newsletter...

 

good find. however i have no idea what this could show. the only big international airport near fulda would be frankfurt (other civilian airports in the area are much smaller) and i cannot match that image to any historical layout of frankfurt airport.

[Silver_Dragon]

3 minutes ago, twistking said:

good find. however i have no idea what this could show. the only big international airport near fulda would be frankfurt (other civilian airports in the area are much smaller) and i cannot match that image to any historical layout of frankfurt airport.

The only available "resource" has the "german airport" show on CH-47 Video, but found them has a mistery.

[Mike_Romeo]

5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Other "Strangle" pic, from the last newsletter...

 

Thats the old Berlin Schönefeld airport

[Silver_Dragon]

1 minute ago, Mike_Romeo said:

Thats the old Berlin Schönefeld airport

good find... now "Germany / Fulda Gap has confirmed.

[Mike_Romeo]

Also the Towers and bunkers shown in the CH-47 trailer fit the fortifications used on the former inner german border


Real life:






Real life:

Edited July 7, 2024 by Mike_Romeo