FC2024 | Kola Development Progress | Virtual Carrier Wing 17

[P1l0t]

6 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

. . . drive existing DCS customers insane.

 

The joy I take, the pleasure I get, the satisfaction I receive, in knowing with absolute certainly that DCS will never ever ever! involve grinding makes every moment a heavenly delight of bliss and serenity. 

 

Y'all have a wonderful day. 

The topic I am discussing revolves around conceptual ideas and there is ample room for changes. One clear fact, in my view, is that DCS World, as a multi-layered game, isn't very popular, but it has the potential to be. If the game avoids relying on XP and credit grinding, it could instead reward time spent on online servers. The time players invest is valuable and should be rewarded, perhaps with FC aircraft. Fully interactive, clickable aircraft do not need to be part of this Free to Play model.

In other instances, this approach has expanded the player base, converting them into paying customers and ensuring a consistent player presence since Free to Play models are attractive. It's a simple truth that people will take what is free. Moreover, rewarding players for their time spent playing is even better as it motivates them to engage with the game.

Just consider how many people would be encouraged simply by the prospect of getting something for playing. They might start playing, then discover more attractive items in the E shop, and eventually be willing to make purchases.

Currently, DCS World offers just two boring aircraft and a map. After two weeks, players are still undecided about the value of what they've tried, and then they're prompted to make a purchase. However, if FC aircraft could be earned through game time, players would permanently own them. Ultimately, even those who choose not to stay might share their experiences with friends, attracting new potential paying customers to ED, and those who didn't even want to stay here stay here because they got something for free!

This makes Free to Play attractive and thus brings with it leaps and bounds those who will give money to ED because they appreciate how valuable their presence is just because they are here and playing!

[Trooper117]

Talk about flogging a dead horse... 

[Thamiel]

4 minutes ago, P1l0t said:

The time players invest is valuable and should be rewarded

Im afraid you dont get it: it already is. Intrinsically. What better reward than that?

[Repvez]

Ihave some questions  which come in my mind . I don`t understand well maybe somebody can clerify it  .If somebody has already the FC3  ($49.99) and buy the FC2024 for $9.90 they get only the 3 extra aircraft or they will have twice the FC aircraft .  If somebody buy now the FC2024 they get  only 3 aircraft $9.99 or they get the full FCpackage  for this price?  If somebody already has the full fidelity modul from those  which will be part of the FC2024  they how can select which version modul will be use in the missions or they also get twice those moduls?  This way will became more difficult later on if  the moduls have two differendt version in the same time and  we can use it the same area.  Because the FC moduls can be handle esier than the FF moduls and it couse advantages agains who need push more buttons for  weapons or manage the AC.  In my opinion ,It could be better if the FC3 moduls convert to FF moduls time by time like the MIG29 and later on every modul become FF  and there won`t be different among the moduls handlings.

[P1l0t]

14 minutes ago, Thamiel said:

Im afraid you dont get it: it already is. Intrinsically. What better reward than that?

Right now you don't get anything! You get the base game and two boring planes! You can try a product for 2 weeks, but after 2 weeks they will take it from you! You get a delicious hamburger and when you're halfway through, someone comes and takes it away and you're left hungry. Buying something is completely uncertain whether it will be good or not.

Think about getting the FC F-15C aircraft with simple gameplay. Then you see the F-15E in full clickable version, what are you going to do if you're an Eagle fan?

But in addition, you can buy any FC aircraft whenever you want! Believe me, there are many insecure people, and there are even those who cannot afford to buy a valuable joystick. This person invites his friend here and maybe that friend will be the one to buy him a joystick and this friend will also buy him something else from the E shop. Because he achieved a goal with simple perseverance to get something! Meanwhile, he brought a person who gave money to ED!

I've loved Free to Play for years, now I'm somewhere else because I get a reward when I enter and play! This motivates me to see what is happening there every day and to enter and become a member of the community. If I see something valuable, I buy it right away!

Anyway, what's there is boring, but I'm still there because the reward motivates me!

[draconus]

@P1l0t Can you please take your world's best ideas somewhere else, like a wishlist, where it actually belongs?

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/207-dcs-core-wish-list/

[P1l0t]

11 minutes ago, draconus said:

@P1l0t Can you please take your world's best ideas somewhere else, like a wishlist, where it actually belongs?

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/207-dcs-core-wish-list/

I'll try, it's a complex series of ideas that have to be turned into something that's really attractive! Yesterday I imagined it completely differently!

[draconus]

I'm really surprised by the announcement of FC2024. For a long time ED was cooking something called MAC (separate game) behind the scenes while openly declaring that no more FC3 level aircraft are planned in DCS. And now we get this and I'm clueless what they're trying to achieve.

Let's look at the poll I made some time ago:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/330282-why-do-you-fly-fc3/#comments

Maybe ED has their own data but it's clear most DCS players just want to fly the aircraft from the pack, because we don't have FF ones, not because they're cheap or easy to play. Many are even turned off because of the lack of clickable cockpit and being forced to use keybinds - opposite of easy controls.

Quo vadis DCS? Who's the customer of the FC2024 aircraft?

Edited April 28 by draconus

[Thamiel]

1 hour ago, P1l0t said:

Think about getting the FC F-15C aircraft with simple gameplay. Then you see the F-15E in full clickable version, what are you going to do if you're an Eagle fan?

If I were (which Im not, but lets assume otherwise), Im going to get the F-15E FF in the first place because I know the FC version is only F-15 on the outside and not to the pilot/the buyer/to me, so what?

[DD_Fenrir]

32 minutes ago, P1l0t said:

Right now you don't get anything! You get the base game and two boring planes! You can try a product for 2 weeks, but after 2 weeks they will take it from you! You get a delicious hamburger and when you're halfway through, someone comes and takes it away and you're left hungry. Buying something is completely uncertain whether it will be good or not.

Think about getting the FC F-15C aircraft with simple gameplay. Then you see the F-15E in full clickable version, what are you going to do if you're an Eagle fan?

But in addition, you can buy any FC aircraft whenever you want! Believe me, there are many insecure people, and there are even those who cannot afford to buy a valuable joystick. This person invites his friend here and maybe that friend will be the one to buy him a joystick and this friend will also buy him something else from the E shop. Because he achieved a goal with simple perseverance to get something! Meanwhile, he brought a person who gave money to ED!

I've loved Free to Play for years, now I'm somewhere else because I get a reward when I enter and play! This motivates me to see what is happening there every day and to enter and become a member of the community. If I see something valuable, I buy it right away!

Anyway, what's there is boring, but I'm still there because the reward motivates me!

Dude, give it a rest.

You’ve made your opinion quite clear. Repeating the same thing over and over when you get push back and then expecting people to have an epiphany and suddenly choose to agree is not particularly sensible.

You have your opinion. No one else here is obliged to agree with it or you and expecting ED to suddenly change their business model because one random dude on the internet says they should is delusional.

Your point is made, move on.

[MAXsenna]

I'll try, it's a complex series of ideas that have to be turned into something that's really attractive! Yesterday I imagined it completely differently!

Are you using AI to write your pitch?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

I'm really surprised by the announcement of FC2024. For a long time ED was cooking something called MAC (separate game) behind the scenes while openly declaring that no more FC3 level aircraft are planned in DCS. And now we get this and I'm clueless what they're trying to achieve.

Let's look at the poll I made some time ago:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/330282-why-do-you-fly-fc3/#comments

Maybe ED has their own data but it's clear most DCS players just want to fly the aircraft from the pack, because we don't have FF ones, not because they're cheap or easy to play. Many are even turned off because of the lack of clickable cockpit and being forced to use keybinds - opposite of easy controls.

Quo vadis DCS? Who's the customer of the FC2024 aircraft?

 

The break down of preference between FF and FC is more stark than I thought. I figured more would prefer the FC offerings than is apparent. Though it is true that I only fly the Flanker, Fulcrum, and Su-25 because there's no FF version.

[Slippa]

24 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Are you using AI to write your pitch?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

I bought FC3 when I was getting started for the Su-27. Not really knowing what to expect but having taken the advice that I needed it. I’ve never flown any of it. Compared to FF it doesn’t get a look in but I can see the attraction for some.

[Beirut]

4 hours ago, P1l0t said:

Just consider how many people . . . 

 

. . . share my personal feelings of joy, pleasure, and bliss that DCS will never ever ever! involve grinding. I have considered it and it fills me with inner peace. 

 

Y'all have a wonderful day. 

 

.

Edited April 28 by Beirut

[LordOrion]

Personally speaking, I've (re)started playing DCS from FC planes (F-15C, A-10A, Su-27, Su-33 and Mig-29) an then moved to my 1st FF module (my beloved Bug).

Since then I have no longer used the FC3 modules (except for a few missions with the F-15C), they are undoubtedly fun but what I'm looking for in this game is the complexity of the FF modules and the need to study and practice to master them.

I don't think I will ever buy other FC3 modules, certainly not these new ones arriving (I already have F-86 and F-5E FF), but I admit it's still a good thing for newbies and those too lazy to learn a FF module: they can be a good starter before moving on to the FF modules.

Edited April 28 by LordOrion

[T.Power]

12 hours ago, LordOrion said:

Actually point 2 is a problem of of the DCS Game engine, not a flaw in Liberation or Retribuition: with too many units on the map the game slows down so much that is almost unplayable cause the simulation/IA thread is soaking the whole CPU and starving the graphic thread and GPU (I seen the same recently).

However this can be easily fixed (or at least yu can reduce the effect) by decreasing the amount of money available to buy units in turn 0, thus reducing their number on the field.

You can also disable settings like smoke, artillery strike, moving uints, infantry and/or apply culling to completly remove units and planes too far from your flight.

About point 1, it does not seems so serious to me, but I'm a lone wolf payer and maybe when playing Co-Ops might have a different impact.

 

I had tried most of those things but maybe not all together, hmmmmmmm, I see version 11 is live finally with full support for 2.9 so I grabbed that.  Right so I implemented most of those tweaks and setup Golan Heights with Syria as team blue and inverted map which never used to work properly and it actually worked!  Not only that but I'm being offered frontline CAS missions for the Hind out of Damascus which is perfect.  Can't actually fly properly right now as only half of my new setup arrived, pedals arrive next week so it'll give me some time to tinker with Liberation.  Thanks for the heads up.

[LordOrion]

Just now, T.Power said:

I had tried most of those things but maybe not all together, hmmmmmmm, I see version 11 is live finally with full support for 2.9 so I grabbed that.  Right so I implemented most of those tweaks and setup Golan Heights with Syria as team blue and inverted map which never used to work properly and it actually worked!  Not only that but I'm being offered frontline CAS missions for the Hind out of Damascus which is perfect.  Can't actually fly properly right now as only half of my new setup arrived, pedals arrive next week so it'll give me some time to tinker with Liberation.  Thanks for the heads up.

U r welcome mate!

Have (a lot of) fun

[T.Power]

4 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

U r welcome mate!

Have (a lot of) fun

I will do thanks bruv.

[Ironhand]

4 hours ago, draconus said:

I'm really surprised by the announcement of FC2024. For a long time ED was cooking something called MAC (separate game) behind the scenes while openly declaring that no more FC3 level aircraft are planned in DCS. And now we get this and I'm clueless what they're trying to achieve.

Let's look at the poll I made some time ago:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/330282-why-do-you-fly-fc3/#comments

Maybe ED has their own data but it's clear most DCS players just want to fly the aircraft from the pack, because we don't have FF ones, not because they're cheap or easy to play. Many are even turned off because of the lack of clickable cockpit and being forced to use keybinds - opposite of easy controls.

Quo vadis DCS? Who's the customer of the FC2024 aircraft?

 

I always wondered why they wanted to split the community in two with MAC. Maybe they changed their minds. MAC was going to be its own world with its own bells and whistles separate from DCS with FC3 remaining part of DCS for access to the Flankers, F-15C, etc.

OTOH, now that there’s the F-15E and a FF MiG-29 in the pipeline, there may be no need for an “enhanced” version of FC3 (MAC) and the community split will happen upon the FF M-29A’s arrival. Certainly saves on the ma hours involved.

[Czar66]

Most excited about Kola map for ages now. This will surely be a breath of fresh air into DCS atmosphere if done right! I'm definitely putting more hours of flight time now that map is coming very soon.

 

20 hours ago, P1l0t said:

I have a different opinion about the XP grind, I've been using it successfully for 11 years and I enjoy every minute of it, I got just as much joy when I gave money to another place, and I'm even more proud of it because I grinded for a couple of products that can be obtained for free but cost money for others.

 

Unlockables through grind are paid by the customers on its entry fee. The ability to skip the grind is the micro transaction in place.

Anyone can place unlockables mechanism on themselves by making their own spreadsheet of achievements X xp levels to not access certain functionalities until they progress a certain amount. I've done it myself since Hornet release and learning it. Dumb bombs first -> then PGMs as an example. AIM-7s before AIM-120s. But the same place where lacks this kind of discipline on someone is the same place where the predatory methods of microtansaction over skipping grind profits.

Anything that's forcefully blocked by XP points in DCS I'm avoiding 100%.

Unlockables don't mix well with Flight Simulators as their value is on its depth and tool-like characteristics.

The most fun I have with all the many modules I purchased comes from after learning its systems and deploy them in the most effective way I can manage and not the aspect of 'I can't do that yet'.

 

7 hours ago, P1l0t said:

The topic I am discussing revolves around conceptual ideas and there is ample room for changes. One clear fact, in my view, is that DCS World, as a multi-layered game, isn't very popular, but it has the potential to be. If the game avoids relying on XP and credit grinding, it could instead reward time spent on online servers. The time players invest is valuable and should be rewarded, perhaps with FC aircraft. Fully interactive, clickable aircraft do not need to be part of this Free to Play model.

 

Unlockables almost sank IL-2 BoX. The forums were flooded every time a new batch of players came in at a sale, it did NOT attracted new people.

Without unlocking anything I always leave a sortie in DCS with satisfaction. The satisfaction is the immersion itself, not a shinny thing behind some blockage.

Edited April 28 by Czar66

[sthompson]

There are a few things that I think get lost in the comparison of FC3 modules to other so-called "full fidelity" modules.

First, all FC3 modules other than the Su-25 use the professional flight model. (See https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/general/). This is really important. The most important thing about a module in my view is its flight model. The thing that attracted me to Flanker 1.0 many years ago is that it was the first sim I experienced where there was a sense of flying rather than steering on rails, and this continues to this day. The main challenge for any module with a good flight model is learning to fly it well, not learning systems. There is a lot of content online of people flying the Flanker and Flogger well that make this point. That FC3 modules use professional flight modeling means that their development costs are significant. It's not like ED can come up with dozens of these at little cost. Personally, I'd be pretty upset if ED started releasing flyable modules with dumbed down physics. Fortunately, they have shown no inclination to do that.

Second, clickable cockpit is not the same thing as "full fidelity." Real fighter pilots do not click things with a mouse or use a computer keyboard. They use their fingers and Hotas controls. Because using a mouse and keyboard while flying is awkward and unrealistic, I spend a good bit of time trying to map my clickable controls onto Hotas buttons. That is, given that I can't push console buttons or switches or knobs with my hands, I find it more realistic, and certainly easier, to map these to Hotas rather than using a mouse and keyboard. Of course for a complex module such as the hornet where there are dozens of buttons (think MFDs) that you might need to use in-flight you can only go so far with this approach. But the aspect of flying the Hornet that I find least realistic is having to grab the mouse when I need to push a button or throw a switch.

To be clear, I enjoy the study aspect of learning a complex module like the Hornet. I like the more advanced radar and other systems compared to the FC3 Flanker. I'm not trying to suggest that this doesn't matter. But people who indicate that they have no interest in the FC3 planes because they are not clickable are missing that they still have excellent flight models and are enjoyable to fly and fight with. Furthermore, the controls interactions aren't that different once you map everything to hotas buttons.

Personally, I'm curious to learn what is going to be simplified in the new FC4 aircraft relative to their clickable versions given that these are pretty simple modules already. For example, since almost everything of importance in the clickable MiG-15 can be mapped to hotas already, it isn't clear to me that the FC4 version will be very different in practice from the existing module. For example, when I fly the MiG-15 the only switches I click with a mouse are the ones needed for startup. The ones needed in flight are mapped to my stick and throttle. 

 

 

[nessuno0505]

As a pointCTRL user, I do not use mouse with full-fidelity modules: I move my hand next to the button or switch I need then I click a button directly on my finger. I's really close to flip a switch in real life. I have to map on my hotas only those functions that are mapped on the hotas in real life. I find it very realistic.

With FC3 I cannot map everything on the hotas, and since I fly in VR and I do not have the keyboard next to my simpit, I have to map all the complex button combinations on voice commands using voiceattack.

The result of all of the above is that if I fly a full-fidelity I move my hand and click, if I fly a FC3 I use almost only voice commands, as if I was on a F-35 even if I'm flying a su-25. With my setup I find more realistic to fly a full-fidelity.

 

That said, the three main questions still has no answer from the devs, so I propose them again:

- Do the new FC2024 planes have upgraded textures / models compared to the full-fidelity ones?

- And if so, is there a plan to port those new textures / models on the full-fidelity versions?

- If I already own all the full-fidelity versions and FC3, will the FC2024 upgrade be free?

Edited April 28 by nessuno0505

[virgo47]

I've noticed that some 3rd party dev maps are not available for trial - will this be the case for Kola as well? I guess it's ultimately the decision of the dev, but I don't understand it with terrains in particular, because if one likes the plane, they can enjoy it for 14 days and then exploit this after 6 months again, but with the terrain, if one likes it, it's probably more likely they will not wait 6 months to enjoy it again. Doubly so if they need it for some online play.

[Beirut]

44 minutes ago, nessuno0505 said:

- Do the new FC2024 planes have upgraded textures / models compared to the full-fidelity ones?

- And if so, is there a plan to port those new textures / models on the full-fidelity versions?

 

That's my question as well. I have the F-5 and F-86 and they're great, but the cockpit textures could use some love. 

[rob10]

56 minutes ago, nessuno0505 said:

- If I already own all the full-fidelity versions and FC3, will the FC2024 upgrade be free?

I'd say it's pretty clear that if you own FC3 then the upgrade is $9.99 and that's the only discounted option available.