waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[MAXsenna]

The fastest racist 

Well played!

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[Wizard_03]

5 minutes ago, Goofy12 said:

…and yet these modules are still for sale without a disclaimer. It might not be illegal, but sure is unethical behaviour. 

and yet they had zero issue putting a disclaimer on the support page.

[afnav130]

5 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

and yet they had zero issue putting a disclaimer on the support page.

Yeah that does seem bit weird doesn't it.

[scommander2]

58 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

According to multiple razbam devs on discord today ED is refusing to communicate with them at all.

Thanks for sharing the quote and quote information from the RB side, and sounds that something is very odd here.... 

[LordOrion]

According to multiple razbam devs on discord today ED is refusing to communicate with them at all. So how exactly is this policy that ED has of complete radio silence both with us in the community and the devs at razbam working toward a solution? @NineLine

It does not make any sense to me: why ED should refuse to talk with RB?


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[afnav130]

7 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

It does not make any sense to me: why ED should refuse to talk with RB?


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Nobody knows the truth anymore and that what radio silence does. It drives speculation and what makes it worse is they keep selling the modules and it's sending mixed messages. It's been months now and nothing has changed. Nothing. 

[Rainmaker]

22 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

It does not make any sense to me: why ED should refuse to talk with RB?


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Personal opinion, I would not be looking to ED to do that. More a single, or very few, particular individuals. 

[evilnate]

I very much hope this dispute gets concluded quickly so us customers can understand what the future of our beloved Eagle is.

Right now, each update probably has all customers hopeful there’s news about the F-15E and get seriously disappointed when there is nothing.

[Oban]

1 hour ago, Wizard_03 said:

According to multiple razbam devs on discord today ED is refusing to communicate with them at all. So how exactly is this policy that ED has of complete radio silence both with us in the community and the devs at razbam working toward a solution? @NineLine

That's what lawyers are for

[Mouse_99]

I gotta say; I'm not happy, I bought these Razbam modules in good faith that they would be updated and maintained and now this, with ED continuing sales of these modules, this constitutes fraud. I am not going to boycott DCS, I will be looking at Falcon BMS as they are making strides in improving their sim and it's starting to look pretty good. So I may leave DCS entirely because I have lost faith in them. Besides that snail pace of their "improvements", just look at how long it took them just to put a pilot in the cockpit of the F-16, and they still haven't finished the F-18 after how many years?

[nuNce]

1 hour ago, Goofy12 said:

…and yet these modules are still for sale without a disclaimer. It might not be illegal, but sure is unethical behaviour. 

Of course, because once sold, even if people refund they will still have to buy something from the store, even if they are not interested in. ED wins either way. 

[Oban]

13 minutes ago, Mouse_99 said:

I gotta say; I'm not happy, I bought these Razbam modules in good faith that they would be updated and maintained and now this, with ED continuing sales of these modules, this constitutes fraud. I am not going to boycott DCS, I will be looking at Falcon BMS as they are making strides in improving their sim and it's starting to look pretty good. So I may leave DCS entirely because I have lost faith in them. Besides that snail pace of their "improvements", just look at how long it took them just to put a pilot in the cockpit of the F-16, and they still haven't finished the F-18 after how many years?

Why does it constitue fraud?
It's only fraudulent if they're knowingly continuing to sell a product that will no longer be supported by the developer.
As it stands, everything is still ongoing through ongoing through legal representation, so there's nothing fraudulent going on.

"I'm not going to boycott DCS" but in the next sentence you say you may leave DCS entirely... sounds like you've made up your mind.

No mention of Razbam also still not completing modules, but it's all about ED.

If you're going to leave then leave, there's no need to announce it to the world, it's not an airport departures lounge.

[Atazar SPN]

hace 11 minutos, Oban dijo:

Why does it constitue fraud?
It's only fraudulent if they're knowingly continuing to sell a product that will no longer be supported by the developer.
As it stands, everything is still ongoing through ongoing through legal representation, so there's nothing fraudulent going on.

"I'm not going to boycott DCS" but in the next sentence you say you may leave DCS entirely... sounds like you've made up your mind.

No mention of Razbam also still not completing modules, but it's all about ED.

If you're going to leave then leave, there's no need to announce it to the world, it's not an airport departures lounge.

I can understand that this man has left DCS with the same regret that I have left him. The announcement of a departure should serve to reflect. I got off the ship with quite a bit of sadness, because two essential additions were on the way and for me they were safe purchases. The Chinook, the C-130 and Afghanistan. I was also able to see in the Chinook promotional video a new infantry model that I had requested for many years. For that reason, leaving was more painful for me. I left for honor, dignity and pride. An apology would have solved everything, but it never came and I think that an apology would also solve the conflict between RB and ED.

The way you treat customers directly influences their decision to stay or leave.

[afnav130]

41 minutes ago, Mouse_99 said:

I gotta say; I'm not happy, I bought these Razbam modules in good faith that they would be updated and maintained and now this, with ED continuing sales of these modules, this constitutes fraud. I am not going to boycott DCS, I will be looking at Falcon BMS as they are making strides in improving their sim and it's starting to look pretty good. So I may leave DCS entirely because I have lost faith in them. Besides that snail pace of their "improvements", just look at how long it took them just to put a pilot in the cockpit of the F-16, and they still haven't finished the F-18 after how many years?

But they have the happy paddle, which is only used in emergencies IRL and will over G the jet and require you to fly home immediately. What else do you need?

[scommander2]

9 minutes ago, Atazar SPN said:

The way you treat customers directly influences their decision to stay or leave.

mmm.... silence of lamb.....

[Oban]

11 minutes ago, Atazar SPN said:

I can understand that this man has left DCS with the same regret that I have left him. The announcement of a departure should serve to reflect. I got off the ship with quite a bit of sadness, because two essential additions were on the way and for me they were safe purchases. The Chinook, the C-130 and Afghanistan. I was also able to see in the Chinook promotional video a new infantry model that I had requested for many years. For that reason, leaving was more painful for me. I left for honor, dignity and pride. An apology would have solved everything, but it never came and I think that an apology would also solve the conflict between RB and ED.

The way you treat customers directly influences their decision to stay or leave.

But you didn't leave, you're still here, and clearly feel aggrieved about something, if I'm reading this right, you left because 2 modules have not been released, I hate to burts your bubble sir, but that's the actions of a petulent child, and both ED and Razbam are also behaving like petulent children, throwing their teddies out their respective prams.

What exactly do you feel an apology is called for? 2 modules not even released yet.

What would have been better for ED and RB was to have acted through legal representation, instead they had a heated spat online, what happened there goes way beyond apologies, becuase one of them, chose your side, slandered the other in public, they damaged their own reputations.

[Atazar SPN]

hace 2 minutos, Oban dijo:

But you didn't leave, you're still here, and clearly feel aggrieved about something, if I'm reading this right, you left because 2 modules have not been released, I hate to burts your bubble sir, but that's the actions of a petulent child, and both ED and Razbam are also behaving like petulent children, throwing their teddies out their respective prams.

What exactly do you feel an apology is called for? 2 modules not even released yet.

What would have been better for ED and RB was to have acted through legal representation, instead they had a heated spat online, what happened there goes way beyond apologies, becuase one of them, chose your side, slandered the other in public, they damaged their own reputations.

In fact I left, because I stopped investing money in this platform. What I'm doing here is free. Opine.

[LordOrion]

1 hour ago, Rainmaker said:

Personal opinion, I would not be looking to ED to do that. More a single, or very few, particular individuals. 

This make more sense.

[LorenLuke]

2 hours ago, statrekmike said:

 

 I gotta be a bit blunt here. I have seen a few RAZBAM members (either developers, former developers, or SME's) make statements but until Ron Zambrano himself actually makes a statement about the sequence of events that led us to this debacle and the steps that he personally undertook both before and after his first major statement, we don't really know anything factual. It does seem that some of the developers who left RAZBAM were told something about the situation but that doesn't mean they were given all the necessary facts/context. Likewise. There is an SME making some pretty bold statements but when you ask him if he represents RAZBAM or has first-hand knowledge of Ron Zambrano's interactions with ED, they will be pretty quick to say that they don't.

 When one looks at the way information is being handled on the RAZBAM Discord, it is hard not to get the sense that there is just enough being said to get particularly vulnerable people angry but not enough to actually shed real light on what is going on and why.

This has long been my thoughts about the whole thing. I can understand the RB developers being upset about not being paid, but many seem to have forgotten that paying the RazBam devs is Ron Zambrano's responsibility, not ED's.

[jeffdude]

I don't claim to understand what the issue is here, but I don't feel comfortable buying more DCS, and I have a lot at this point. I already lost out on the hawk that was a total waste of money, now my Av8, m2000, mig19, and F15E are at risk of becoming just dust in the wind??? come on. this is getting unreasonable. this stuff isn't cheap, not to mention the accessories to really fly it in a good sim like fashion. I am extremely disappointed. I will say my decision to not buy the new helo is directly caused by this. How can I be excited for it when other of my favorite modules are going to die slow painful code deaths. I think a bit of transparency on what the actual heck is going on would go a long way to help the community understand what is going on. 

[Jarhead0331]

As a lawyer, I really just want to see the contract between ED and Razbam. That would give me great insight into the obligations, rights and remedies available to each party.

As a paying customer, I wonder if a court with jurisdiction would determine that I have standing to subpoena the contract? lol

[LordOrion]

13 minutes ago, LorenLuke said:

This has long been my thoughts about the whole thing. I can understand the RB developers being upset about not being paid, but many seem to have forgotten that paying the RazBam devs is Ron Zambrano's responsibility, not ED's.

/this

5 minutes ago, Atazar SPN said:

Nobody is going to go to the place where stones rain.

They should have thought about the "rain of stones" before stop deliverying updates to users.

[Shibbyland]

When it comes to digital products, I think we all know it can fall apart and the stuff you've spent money on won't be available anymore. The thing with DCS is, it's just so expensive, it's not like you lose access to some random game you haven't played in a while, it's a major product for a lot of people.

Each to their own but if RAZBAMs modules collapse, that represents roughly 25% of my purchases. I'd keep playing DCS but it'd totally erode my confidence and it's unlikely I'd buy any more modules for a while. If enough other people felt the same way, then it becomes a bit of a death spiral. Sales hit a slump-devlopment reduces-sales slump further-even less development and so on.

ED need their third party developers to sustain their growth. 

[Atazar SPN]

hace 36 minutos, LordOrion dijo:

/this

They should have thought about the "rain of stones" before stop deliverying updates to users.

Others should have thought about the consequences of taking actions that would result in stopping a jointly developed product. Suspend payment to your partners, for example.

If you think this is going to be solved by throwing rocks at RB, go ahead with it, but don't expect RB to get under them.

[lead dispenser]

If razbam want to close their doors an lets face it they make modules for a living if they pull completely  , (they won't)  , they would basically be closing up shop ,nobody is going to do business with them after a stunt like that no matter whos to blame ...But if they did i would fully except ED would do the right thing by their players .I understand that sometimes things can't be sorted out   . ( They will be have patience)   .  i would trade my razbam modules for others if offered