waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Major_Mayhem]

Dear Eagle Dynamics,

How about you save yourslef and your future customers some headaches ....

STOP SELLING RAZBAM PRODUCTS!

At least until the current drama is reasonably Resolved.

Be Better.

Edited June 6, 2024 by Major_Mayhem

[Futurecvsh]

What ED should do is refund the RAZBAN products in the form of ED MILES since I highly doubt that ED can take care of it with 5 MORE MODULES!! which are also botched that need rework and error correction

Sometimes a company has to lose to preserve and win in the future!'

[virgo47]

I considered both M2000 and Harrier, interesting modules, and both were quite approved lately (except for very recently). Now I'm sad about this whole situation that I watch (on and off) quite impatiently. And unless I forgot, this is likely my first post about it (useless as most others in this thread anyway). I postponed any buying until the resolution. And I'm concerned quite seriously. The silence is deafening.

While just a speculation, right or wrong, if ED somehow disrupted the potentially fragile cash flow of RAZBAM, it could have had a devastating effect. If that's what happened then RAZBAM, drama queen or not, had little chance. Sadly, that's the most probable thing I came up with... and we will perhaps know more in... months? That sucks.

Edited June 6, 2024 by virgo47

[Futurecvsh]

hace 21 minutos, Major_Mayhem dijo:

Dear Eagle Dynamics,

How about you save you and your future customers some headaches ....

STOP SELLING RAZBAM PRODUCTS!

At least until the current drama is reasonably Resolved.

I totally agree with you mate! It goes to the point of being a scam! offering products that right now will not have any type of support!

I remember when the F15E and its slogan came out! 2023 or 2024 is the year of the F-15! I'm laughing at that right now! I want a refund to exchange it for products that are worth it!

[afnav130]

3 minutes ago, Futurecvsh said:

I totally agree with you mate! It goes to the point of being a scam! offering products that right now will not have any type of support!

I remember when the F15E and its slogan came out! 2023 or 2024 is the year of the F-15! I'm laughing at that right now! I want a refund to exchange it for products that are worth it!

Yep. Problem is you have ED shills, and Razbam shills. I am neither. I just read the teas leaves and nobody, and I mean nobody is covering themselves in glory at the moment. Razbam airing dirty laundry without proof to back it up is just that. Hot air. Anyone can say anything. ED hiding behind the lawyers and on the other hand still selling modules that aren't being updated is very uncouth as well. 

If ED pulled all RB modules from the storefront pending litigation resolution then I would applaud that and most probably would. 

[Furia]

hace 3 minutos, Futurecvsh dijo:

I totally agree with you mate! It goes to the point of being a scam! offering products that right now will not have any type of support!

I think you are being carried out in excitement and stating things that at this stage are far from truth and have not been confirmed by any side.

ED and RZ are in a commercial dispute and negotiating a possible solution.

Let´s tune down the drama a bit until we have some „official information“

[SkateZilla]

2 hours ago, AJaromir said:

Actually Razbam, HB, e.t.c... are 2nd party developers from view of the ED because they have contracts with ED. Pure 3rd party developer would be developer of the A-4E mod. Or like addon developers for X-plane, MSFS2020,... - In short they are independent on publisher.

 

Correction:
2nd Party is what Belsimtek was before they were re-integrated back into Eagle Dynamics.

Licensed 3rd Party is RB, HB, etc etc.

A-4E Team is Unlicensed 3rd Party

[Tzigy]

Little bit of perspective guys?  and how about some gratitude? we are so lucky to have any of this in our lives right now. I suggest just everybody f****** stop whining and grow up. It hopefully will sort itself out, yeah, and if you think like you deserve a refund well I sort of get it but then on second thought, not really... <profanity>e happens all the time.  And calling it a scam?? Dudes. 

[Futurecvsh]

hace 8 minutos, Furia dijo:

I think you are being carried out in excitement and stating things that at this stage are far from truth and have not been confirmed by any side.

ED and RZ are in a commercial dispute and negotiating a possible solution.

Let´s tune down the drama a bit until we have some „official information“

It is shameful that as a customer you defend these types of situations and on top of that you understand them when we have been there for months, because of people with ideas like yours you harm the rest of the consumers

 

If you are happy with your unfinished, incomplete and unsupported F15, congratulations! but not me and many consumers! so let me complain and request what belongs to me as a customer!

Edited June 6, 2024 by Futurecvsh

[Major_Mayhem]

30 minutes ago, Furia said:

ED and RZ are in a commercial dispute and negotiating a possible solution.

Let´s tune down the drama a bit until we have some „official information“

That's all well and said .... but we CUSTOMERS are caught in the middle of this. It's OUR investment that is at stake.

Razbam doesn't want to support their modules for whatever reason and while those modules start to break down Eagle Dynamics has no problem with continuing to sell said unsupported modules.

I don't care about ED Razbam or their little lovers spat. What I care about is my investment and the lack of return (Fun) on those investments.

The fact that ED is continuing to sell broken junk from a un-reputable developer with a horrible support record, knowing full well these modules still have problems and are going to get worse as DCS continues development is very worrying and may well hurt EDs Reputation ... they need to be better.

We already have issues with refunds on the F15E ... "Will ED refund me my money or are they going to poke me in rear?"

So I don't think any one should tone it down, WE HAVE REAL WORLD MONEY THAT WE SPENT ON THIS UNFINISHED JUNK!

ED/RAZBAM FANBOYS are totally welcome to put their money were their mouth is, step in and send us refunds out of their own pockets, otherwise they're just little chihuahuas yipping away at the wind.

Edited June 6, 2024 by Major_Mayhem

[Capn kamikaze]

28 minutes ago, Tzigy said:

Little bit of perspective guys?  and how about some gratitude? we are so lucky to have any of this in our lives right now. I suggest just everybody f****** stop whining and grow up. It hopefully will sort itself out, yeah, and if you think like you deserve a refund well I sort of get it but then on second thought, not really... <profanity>e happens all the time.  And calling it a scam?? Dudes. 

Gratitude, are you kidding, we have been scammed out of something we all paid for, within a few patches the F-15E could easily be completely un-usable.

Sorry but I've had enough of people defending this BS, you're not going to earn any reward for defending ED or Razbam, we are getting screwed over.

[Oban]

2 hours ago, Capn kamikaze said:

This is just fraud at this point!

ED are doing all they can to resolve the situation, and are hopefull of such a resolution.

RB have not stated they're 100% no longer going to support their products, they've stated that all updates are on hold until there's a resolution.

Neither party are knowingly continually selling a product that will no longer be maintained in any shape or form..


So by the legal definition where's the fraud ? As both parties are based in different countries, which country would the legal definition of fraud taking place?

[Wizard_03]

20 hours ago, NineLine said:

That is not what I have been hearing at all, but then we just get into he said/he said. It's best to wait for official announcements. It's not in our interest at all to go radio silent. 

Okay thanks for the reply, I just want to highlight the fact that one of these two parties are in fact lying to community. Because what your saying and what they are saying cannot both be true. And I'm gonna leave it at that. 

[Capn kamikaze]

3 minutes ago, Oban said:

So by the legal definition....

These modules only survive by being patched to work with the host simulation, we have paid our money, and they have not even reached their "released" version, the fact we've paid our money up front, and now it looks like we're never going to get that "release" version, I'd say that pretty much perfectly reaches the definition of "scam".

Paid for something we're not going to get.

If I sold you a car on the understanding that I'd deliver the wheels and engine at a later date and then didn't, what would you call that.

Software is no different to any other product, we still have consumer rights, and the law still applies whether it's nuts and bolts or zeros and ones.

51 minutes ago, afnav130 said:

Yep. Problem is you have ED shills, and Razbam shills.

What I don't get is what they think they'll get for defending this BS.

Edited June 6, 2024 by Capn kamikaze

[Oban]

36 minutes ago, Futurecvsh said:

It is shameful that as a customer you defend these types of situations and on top of that you understand them when we have been there for months, because of people with ideas like yours you harm the rest of the consumers

 

If you are happy with your unfinished, incomplete and unsupported F15, congratulations! but not me and many consumers! so let me complain and request what belongs to me as a customer!

 

Literally 70-80% of all modules are unfinished, I'm willing to bet you never cared about those, there's always been a risk with modules and vendors going "tits up" and it's happened on multiple occasions on multiple platforms for decades, it's part and parcel of the industry, and the risk you take as a consumer, most don't even read the small print of their EULA's either.

Lots of knee jerking and finger pointing, despite both parties stating they want to resolve this situation, neither party has given up, and point blank said "we're done, all productivity ends with effect immediate"

Razbam cannot afford to do this, they'd be committing financial and employability suicide, their reputation would be in ruins, even if it was a bit shaky to begin with.

Let the legal people deal with it all, all of Razbam modules are still very much enjoyable as they are right now, ED also know that if they fail to have an amicable resolution, their reputation will also be down the <profanity>ter... again, neither side are looking to pull the plug and end support for said modules.

Cool heads prevail

[Oban]

11 minutes ago, Capn kamikaze said:

These modules only survive by being patched to work with the host simulation, we have paid our money, and they have not even reached their "released" version, the fact we've paid our money up front, and now it looks like we're never going to get that "release" version, I'd say that pretty much perfectly reaches the definition of "scam".

Paid for something we're not going to get.

But You willingly purchased products that were in early access, you agreed to the terms and conditions of the EULA.

Why are you acting like chicken little and the sky is falling, and being the total pessimist?

There's so many examples of hyperbole when things looked bad, only to find that the world didn't end, and life went on.

Have a little faith dude, man Kamala Harris said the world as we know it will cease to be in 12 years  4 years ago, due to climate change, so we've got 8 years left.

You have a war raging inside Ukraine that risks escalation to the point that global warming and unfinished modules will be the least of our problems !!

[Neil Gardner]

Right. My world has reverted to its Cold War state, the one  that I knew when I young, with major powers fighting proxy wars and every one of us living under the Damocles sword of nuclear Armageddon, As a Brit I have lived through 13 years of the most inept and corrupt govt in modern times and with election looming there appears to be little possibility of significant change, and all over Europe and the USA politics is lurching toward the brainless, populist right,  and to top it all - well bloody Nora, I now hear that my F15E, my Mirage and Mig and Harrier are in danger from some bloody business argument between the Raz v DCS, SORT IT OUT. If it’s money then the community can have a whip-round. The basic message that I, as a man of more vintage years than most of you kids, am attempting  to put across is that reality is crap enough without you two arguing and if it all goes wrong that Raz will take their toys and leave. Balls to that! Leave childish, self serving obduracy and spats between forces of equally unbending, uncompromising idiocy to the British Government. 

[Horns]

59 minutes ago, Futurecvsh said:

It is shameful that as a customer you defend these types of situations and on top of that you understand them when we have been there for months, because of people with ideas like yours you harm the rest of the consumers

 

If you are happy with your unfinished, incomplete and unsupported F15, congratulations! but not me and many consumers! so let me complain and request what belongs to me as a customer!

 

He's just as entitled to put his case as you are to put yours, there's nothing 'shameful' in that. Let's all keep this chill please - we've all been given *a lot* of rope in this thread and I think a lot of us would like to keep the discussion going, let's not get it shut down now.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

52 minutes ago, Major_Mayhem said:

That's all well and said .... but we CUSTOMERS are caught in the middle of this. It's OUR investment that is at stake.

Razbam doesn't want to support their modules for whatever reason and while those modules start to break down Eagle Dynamics has no problem with continuing to sell said unsupported modules.

I don't care about ED Razbam or their little lovers spat. What I care about is my investment and the lack of return (Fun) on those investments.

The fact that ED is continuing to sell broken junk from a un-reputable developer with a horrible support record, knowing full well these modules still have problems and are going to get worse as DCS continues development is very worrying and may well hurt EDs Reputation ... they need to be better.

We already have issues with refunds on the F15E ... "Will ED refund me my money or are they going to poke me in rear?"

So I don't think any one should tone it down, WE HAVE REAL WORLD MONEY THAT WE SPENT ON THIS UNFINISHED JUNK!

ED/RAZBAM FANBOYS are totally welcome to put their money were their mouth is, step in and send us refunds out of their own pockets, otherwise they're just little chihuahuas yipping away at the wind.

 

Again, you might be asking ED to breach a contract by stop selling, but your mind is full of rage and cant see further down the road.
You are being very local while having very little info.
Most contract/legal stuff between companies is invisible for customers.

[Capn kamikaze]

29 minutes ago, Oban said:

But You willingly purchased products that were in early access, you agreed to the terms and conditions of the EULA.

On an understanding of what the deal was.

Quit covering for this BS.

[BIGNEWY]

folks we understand the frustration, but please stick to the rules and treat each other with respect or we will hand out warnings. 

thank you

 

[MustangSally]

You're so patient @BIGNEWY

[PhantomHans]

About all I can really say, as an owner of the AV-8B (which I have yet to even fly) and the F-15E (flown a few times) is that I hope there can be some kind of resolution to this.

I don't really care if that means Razbam and ED patch it up and continue as planned, if ED elects instead for a buyout to simply take ownership and develop/maintain these modules on their own, or if my purchases are cancelled and refunded to my original forms of payment.

I hope that it means Razbam can continue to develop their modules, but like I said, I wouldn't be bothered by the alternatives, as long as I am not simply left holding a big old bag of nothing.

[Futurecvsh]

hace 1 hora, BIGNEWY dijo:

folks we understand the frustration, but please stick to the rules and treat each other with respect or we will hand out warnings. 

thank you

 

If you understand our frustration, you should solve this, we have been patient for months, we have put our money and trust in you, you have to do your part as a company that I still consider serious, you have to understand your consumers, do not let us down.

[Major_Mayhem]

1 hour ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

Again, you might be asking ED to breach a contract by stop selling, but your mind is full of rage and cant see further down the road.
You are being very local while having very little info.
Most contract/legal stuff between companies is invisible for customers.

What's to understand?

I purchased the product (F-15 and AV8B) From ED.
The developer Razbam publicly announced that they have stopped supporting the products that they developed for ED's DCS.
Products Developed by Razbam (M2K) start breaking with no updates on the horizon.
ED is still selling Razbam products while many of us our awaiting approval for our refund request on these now unsupported MODS especially on the F15E.

If ED refunds me the money I'm good. (I'll just use it to buy the OH58)
If ED takes control of the mods in question and continues to develop them to completion in a timely manor I'm good. (I'll still buy the OH58)
If Razbam steps up and resumes development and support of their mods I'm good. (I'll still buy the OH58)

However at the going rate ED and Razbam may well find themselves in a nasty class action lawsuit that could hurt both companies and those of us that have invested hundreds of dollars\Pounds\Euros in this game.

Until this is resolved or my refund for store credit is approved, I personally won't be buying any new mods/products from ED (Sorry Pollychop).

I also have no problem signing onto a class action to recoup some if not all my losses on this fiasco. I'm willing to bet there are a lot of people feeling the same way and have little care as to the cause of all of this, They just want the issue resolved or their money back.

Regardless of ED contractual obligations, Continuing to sell Razbam products during this drama makes ED look bad .... Like a grocery store continuing to sell contaminated ice cream after it has been known to be contaminated. No one is going to care that the store was contractually obligated to sell the ice cream.

Edited June 6, 2024 by Major_Mayhem