waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Oban]

24 minutes ago, Malakhit said:

I have been doing so, I spent an enjoyable evening flying the Strike Eagle last night. I don't see why this should preclude me from sharing my feedback in this thread, however?

What feedback? You're speculating like 99% of the posters here, and yeah I'm also speculating that neither party want this situation to have a negative end. I'm not looking that the glass is half full either, I'm looking at the current situation, it's ongoing, and whilst it's ongoing, all Razbam modules are working as they were pre public spat..

I'm confident that there will be a resolution that will be acceptable for both parties, and to their consumers too, so until that will be, it's business as usual, it's not all doom and gloom, I prefer to have positive energy, rather than negative energy, it 's a thing that comes with age!!

[Lord_Pyro]

[apolloace]

After this Razbam-ED fiasco, I will be very wary of getting 3rd party products. The current dispute is not very good marketing for the future of DCS as well. From now on I will only stick to ED maps & modules.

[Nightdare]

8 hours ago, Blackeye said:

Well either surprised of it actually happening, blissfully ignoring the possibility or simply not planning for it. Unless the plan was to burn trust by leaving the users in the dark, going back and forth on "refunds" and just keep selling the module and hope nobody notices. With this problem going on for months you'd think they'd have some what-if-scenarios prepared.

 

This is the "what if" scenario, you just don't happen to like it

Do you honestly believe any other company works differently?

 

And who is burning trust? ED one day thought "Oh hey, why don't we pick a fight with one of our contractors, that'll be great for business!"?

You think ED is ruining trust by securing their business so they wont fold and you lose all your modules because a contractor put them into bankruptcy?

What do you think happens if ED doesn't protect its IP?

 

 

On another note:

Tell me Blackeye, does your boss tell all its customers every time when things aren't going great? What do you think what happens when he does? People will go somewhere else

Now what if things simply looked negative but no problems occurred? He just lost customers over nothing, he ruined customer trust over Nothing!

Yes, there may be a point where a business has to inform its customers that there are 'issues' and on what level this impacts the service provided (if it does), but you don't screw up your business by torpedoeing trust everytime things aren't exactly going to plan

 

Now it could also be I see a somewhat bigger picture than you, since the company I worked for over the decades, has over time, had issues with Suppliers, IP theft, fraud and insolvency, none of that we planned for to happen

The reason we still exist as a healthy company, is because we kept our customers away from our 'internal' issues and dealt with them, some quick, some dragged on, but if any word gotten out on some of those matters to the general public, it could have killed us on the spot, since customers would have walked away and it would have diminished our solvency to the point we couldn't operate anymore

 

 

and just an FYI, I own the AV8B, so I also have a personal investment in the current issue and would like to see this end positively

 

[miller03]

1 hour ago, Lord_Pyro said:

Where is your „GIB“?

[NineLine]

2 hours ago, Oban said:

It's all meaningless when we're told that WWIII is right around the corner, and that the sea levels are rising, the polar ice caps are melting, and that climate change will end mankind in 8 years time....... all nothing more than pure speculation !!

Don't forget all the possible asteroids that could hit at any time...

[Mizzy]

1 hour ago, apolloace said:

After this Razbam-ED fiasco, I will be very wary of getting 3rd party products. The current dispute is not very good marketing for the future of DCS as well. From now on I will only stick to ED maps & modules.

That's a bit of an over reaction don't you think. I mean, you won't bother with the Tomcat or F4 or Mig21 etc. I will definitely be too old to play 3rd Party stuff before they stop their support. The current Razban fiasco as you call it is one developer wanting to create as much damage as they can because ED has called them out, my evidence for this is Razbam trying to drag other 3rd Party developers into their sh$tshow of their own making like citing Heatblur, why did they do that !! Anyway, I am sure there is a way of picking up 'their' modules without them if they don't get their act together and admit they have committed theft.

Mizzy

[Lord_Pyro]

32 minutes ago, miller03 said:

Where is your „GIB“?

You can deselect him in the Missioneditor.

[Hammer1-1]

7 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

My momma made me handsome, she didn't make me bright. 

 

I was in my Norton 360 - which many seem to despise but I like - and I exclude this and that and I still can't get it. 

just delete Norton 360, its garbage. Windows Defender is just fine. Norton is now bloatware that causes more problems than good.

[Major_Mayhem]

53 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Don't forget all the possible asteroids that could hit at any time...

99942 Apophis April 13, 2029

Personally I'm hoping for a zombie apocalypse. A zombie apocalypse would be awesome fun!
Only downside to a good zombie apocalypse is all the horrible humans that may survive.

Edited June 12, 2024 by Major_Mayhem

[Rainmaker]

I’ll just be over here waiting for someone to justify some allegations.  
 

So many repeating hearsay….and no one has any clue what it is or what its even about….but yet it must be true. Weird bunch of folks. 

[Mizzy]

34 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

I’ll just be over here waiting for someone to justify some allegations.  
 

So many repeating hearsay….and no one has any clue what it is or what its even about….but yet it must be true. Weird bunch of folks. 

Which allegations do you wish to be justified?

[Rainmaker]

2 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

Which allegations do you wish to be justified?

I dunno. Maybe the IP theft you call them guilty of?  Got anything to offer?

[Oban]

41 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

I’ll just be over here waiting for someone to justify some allegations.  
 

So many repeating hearsay….and no one has any clue what it is or what its even about….but yet it must be true. Weird bunch of folks. 

As if that's ever going to be released or dislcosed on a public forum, I'm sure that's for their legal teams to hash out. And you should know better !

[Rainmaker]

1 minute ago, Oban said:

As if that's ever going to be released or dislcosed on a public forum, I'm sure that's for their legal teams to hash out. And you should know better !

I should know better than to wait on proof of something to which a public allegation on public channels was made?  

[Oban]

Just now, Rainmaker said:

I should know better than to wait on proof of something to which a public allegation on public channels was made?  

100% !! Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of damage limitation needing done, and I'm all for the benefit of the doubt, like I said before, there's no winners in this scenario.

I also said the burden of proof/guilt lies in the accuser too, and given that both parties behaved like 5 year old kids, taking the whole thing to legal matters should have been the way to begin with.

There's conflict management ongoing, and both parties need to find common ground in which to make concessions, so that there's no clear winner, and both sides keep a degree of integrity and humility.

[Hammer1-1]

Just now, Oban said:

100% !! Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of damage limitation needing done, and I'm all for the benefit of the doubt, like I said before, there's no winners in this scenario.

I also said the burden of proof/guilt lies in the accuser too, and given that both parties behaved like 5 year old kids, taking the whole thing to legal matters should have been the way to begin with.

There's conflict management ongoing, and both parties need to find common ground in which to make concessions, so that there's no clear winner, and both sides keep a degree of integrity and humility.

Curious...how did ED act like a 5 yr old? Seems like they've been fairly reasonable to me...

[Rainmaker]

1 minute ago, Oban said:

100% !! Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of damage limitation needing done, and I'm all for the benefit of the doubt, like I said before, there's no winners in this scenario.

I also said the burden of proof/guilt lies in the accuser too, and given that both parties behaved like 5 year old kids, taking the whole thing to legal matters should have been the way to begin with.

There's conflict management ongoing, and both parties need to find common ground in which to make concessions, so that there's no clear winner, and both sides keep a degree of integrity and humility.

People repeating it around here like it’s gospel/truth. I just stated my stance on it. Think a lot of others should be asking themselves the same questions IMO. Making the accusation doesn’t just automatically get overlooked on the idea that its okay to be hidden behind a veil of secrecy.  You don’t just get handed a pass based on that.  It was a choice to publicly make it, don’t say it if you aren’t willing to show us all. Which means exactly that, everyone repeating it has nothing to go on either. 

[Oban]

Just now, Hammer1-1 said:

Curious...how did ED act like a 5 yr old? Seems like they've been fairly reasonable to me...

Taking the issue public, and making accusations, that if found to be false would be the end of Nick Grey, and if proven to be true will be the end of Ron Zambrano.

There's no winners here.

I'm curious as to what the stakeholders of both Eagle Dynamics, and Razbam LLC think of this whole situation.

[Oban]

1 minute ago, Rainmaker said:

People repeating it around here like it’s gospel/truth. I just stated my stance on it. Think a lot of others should be asking themselves the same questions IMO. Making the accusation doesn’t just automatically get overlooked on the idea that its okay to be hidden behind a veil of secrecy.  You don’t just get handed a pass based on that.  It was a choice to publicly make it, don’t say it if you aren’t willing to show us all. Which means exactly that, everyone repeating it has nothing to go on either. 

Again, not going to disagree on that, now that being said, human nature just loves to have a bad guy, and demonise them, and if you repeat a lie often enough you're going to convince yourself its the truth.

You know full well that Nick Grey's more than likely been told by his legal team to keep his mouth shut, and to let them investigate those claims.

Now there's really only 2 scenarios; (A)he's factually incorrect, and will have to face the consequences of his public statements/accusations and repercussions, and do the decent thing, and resign.

or (B) He's factually correct, and has the proof, of which will be in the hands of the legal team, and they'll be going over all the clauses within the terms and conditions between both parties, then Ron Zambrano will also be done, as will Razbam.

Personally, I don't wish to see Razbam fold, and cease trading.

Either way, you're never going to see the proof unless you're part of the legal team. So you can make as many comments in defence of Razbam as you like, nothing will be disclosed to the forum members, not today, tomorrow or ever, until the case has been settled (Hopefully benefitting both parties) 
 

[LorenLuke]

I'm just going to state here, that I think ED not pledging code support and maintenance of the modules is smart. Reminder that if they say 'Oh yeah, if this all goes south, we'll support them' in an official capacity removes any non-legal leverage over RB to not just 'peace out' of the whole thing and drop their own support to those modules the moment that statement is made. And I certainly wouldn't put it past Razbam to do exactly that at this point, if given that chance. 

 

@BIGNEWY @NineLine

I know you have very often said 'we can't comment more until there's a resolution', but can you comment on, perhaps, a (non-exhaustive) list of outcomes for what you/ED would consider 'a resolution' to be? 

Two major ones that I can think of are:

1) Everything resolved to where Razbam goes back to work spring their modules, ED goes back to giving them full pay, and all is copacetic and happy and well and basically the terms of the original (or some new, mutually agreed) contract.

2) Presumably a legal conclusion is reached via court, both entities go their separate ways, and the state of these modules (either supported or not) remains a non-factor in whether or not the courts make their determination

Are there ANY OTHER scenarios other than some settlement (1) or a legal conclusion in court (2) that you can think of, this moment, besides those two that fits your definition of 'resolution' to a level to where you can comment on anything going on here?

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, LorenLuke said:

I'm just going to state here, that I think ED not pledging code support and maintenance of the modules is smart. Reminder that if they say 'Oh yeah, if this all goes south, we'll support them' in an official capacity removes any non-legal leverage over RB to not just 'peace out' of the whole thing and drop their own support to those modules the moment that statement is made. And I certainly wouldn't put it past Razbam to do exactly that at this point, if given that chance. 

 

@BIGNEWY @NineLine

I know you have very often said 'we can't comment more until there's a resolution', but can you comment on, perhaps, a (non-exhaustive) list of outcomes for what you/ED would consider 'a resolution' to be? 

Two major ones that I can think of are:

1) Everything resolved to where Razbam goes back to work spring their modules, ED goes back to giving them full pay, and all is copacetic and happy and well and basically the terms of the original (or some new, mutually agreed) contract.

2) Presumably a legal conclusion is reached via court, both entities go their separate ways, and the state of these modules (either supported or not) remains a non-factor in whether or not the courts make their determination

Are there ANY OTHER scenarios other than some settlement (1) or a legal conclusion in court (2) that you can think of, this moment, besides those two that fits your definition of 'resolution' to a level to where you can comment on anything going on here?

Please do not get ahead of yourself, we can not say anything until the dispute is resolved. If we could say something we would. 

I am sorry that you are all having to wait for news but that is where we are are at the moment. 

thank you 

[Rainmaker]

50 minutes ago, Oban said:

Again, not going to disagree on that, now that being said, human nature just loves to have a bad guy, and demonise them, and if you repeat a lie often enough you're going to convince yourself its the truth.

You know full well that Nick Grey's more than likely been told by his legal team to keep his mouth shut, and to let them investigate those claims.

Now there's really only 2 scenarios; (A)he's factually incorrect, and will have to face the consequences of his public statements/accusations and repercussions, and do the decent thing, and resign.

or (B) He's factually correct, and has the proof, of which will be in the hands of the legal team, and they'll be going over all the clauses within the terms and conditions between both parties, then Ron Zambrano will also be done, as will Razbam.

Personally, I don't wish to see Razbam fold, and cease trading.

Either way, you're never going to see the proof unless you're part of the legal team. So you can make as many comments in defence of Razbam as you like, nothing will be disclosed to the forum members, not today, tomorrow or ever, until the case has been settled (Hopefully benefitting both parties) 
 

Well, I could see two glaring issues with that scenario.

1. Would potentially mean that the allegations were made without knowing that it were in any way factual prior to.

2.  I would have a hard time believing that any lawyer would condone even a counter-response of such allegations like that, as it would open yourself up to a libel/defamation lawsuit right out of the gate for making such allegations being unfounded, and certainly not as a result of a court ruling.

All speculation, but...would lead me to believe that statement was made as a result of personal grievances and not ones made with any sort of legal consultation prior to.  Doesn't quite make sense to me.  Just my opinion.  The initial post of 'we have not been paid' with no criminal allegations being made sounds a lot more like it was crafted with legal consultation than the response to it.

Just my thoughts. 

Edited June 12, 2024 by Rainmaker

[Horns]

Hi Rainmaker, just a friendly request: I believe I saw someone mention you were employed by Razbam, are you willing to state if you are still employed by them? You are free to decline or ignore the question of course.

Edit: To clarify, whether you are or not I acknowledge you have as much right as anyone to comment here.

Edited June 12, 2024 by Horns
Clarity and changed first sentence

[Oban]

10 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Well, I could see two glaring issues with that scenario.

1. Would potentially mean that the allegations were made without knowing that it were in any way factual prior to.

2.  I would have a hard time believing that any lawyer would condone even a counter-response of such allegations like that, as it would open yourself up to a libel/defamation lawsuit right out of the gate for making such allegations being unfounded, and certainly not as a result of a court ruling.

All speculation, but...would lead me to believe that statement was made as a result of personal grievances and not ones made with any sort of legal consultation prior to.  Doesn't quite make sense to me.  Just my opinion.  The initial post of 'we have not been paid' with no criminal allegations being made sounds a lot more like it was crafted with legal consultation than the response to it.

Just my thoughts. 

 

None of it makes sense, that's the most frustrating part as a consumer/customer.

Razbams claim = We've not been paid has more merit, because ED have not denied there's a hold on payment.

ED's CEO claims = You've broken the terms and conditions between both parties, with him alluding to Intellectual Property rights being breached/broken  ( Is this enough to withold payment without further investigation? That will be in the small print that most us will never be privy to.

We can only wait and see what transpires over the coming weeks/months !