waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Oban]

8 minutes ago, Ignition said:

Razbam were giving updates for the F-15E with good faith for many months. I don't know why they should fix the aircraft now.

They don't, but it wasn't the last update by ED that broke the radar.

The radar failed 7 days after, there's no connection at all.

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Oban:

And if ED don't have access to the source code, why would you point to them as being the culprit for breaking the out of date .dll , of which the F15E wasn't updated?

I don't buy into anything malicious, from either Razbam, or ED in this case.

If ED don't have access to the source code, then it's going to be down to Razbam to fix, now, the way I see this, if RB's intentions are to resolve the situation, then as a gesture of good faith, and to appease the customers of their module, providing a hotfix for the outdated .dll would go a long way towards community reconciliation.

Who "pointed" at anyone?! Are you having trouble with reading comprehension? Who said anything about something being malicious (except you)?!

It is a fact that the radar was working fine until June 13th, and stopped working on June 14th. The last patch was from June 5. Whatever happened needs to be fixed.

Stop putting words into my mouth, and leave me out of your speculative crusade. I don't care.

[Rainmaker]

4 minutes ago, Oban said:

They don't, but it wasn't the last update by ED that broke the radar.

The radar failed 7 days after, there's no connection at all.

What’s that got to do with anything?  Ignition didn’t mention anything about it in his post. He responded with ‘months’ and ‘good faith’. 
 

You are the only one trying to connect the two dots there. 

Edited June 17, 2024 by Rainmaker

[Oban]

Just now, Jayhawk1971 said:

Who "pointed" at anyone?! Are you having trouble with reading comprehension? Who said anything about something being malicious (except you)?!

It is a fact that the radar was working fine until June 13th, and stopped working on June 14th. The last patch was from June 5. Whatever happened needs to be fixed.

Stop putting words into my mouth, and leave me out of your speculative crusade. I don't care.

No, my reading comprehansion is just fime, salty are we?

There's plenty of mentions about the radar being malicious within this thread, if you've been following it.

 

Just now, Rainmaker said:

What’s that got to do with anything?  Ignition didn’t mention anything about it in his post. He responded with ‘months’ and ‘good faith’. 

It's called observation, stop being so salty.

[NineLine]

Just a friendly reminder to be kind to each other and keep the forum rules in mind. Share your opinion, good bad or indifferent, but understand everyone has their own point of view and opinion on all this. Thanks. 

[Rainmaker]

2 minutes ago, Oban said:

 

It's called observation, stop being so salty.

Salty?!?  No.  Its called pointing out the fact he didn’t say anything about where you tried to take the topic. Calling me salty doesn’t change that at all. 

[fghidalg]

Friends, I have read so many things, both from the community and one of those involved because the other just remained silent, but something tells me that ED if he has the source code, but for legal issues he can not develop and modify it, until the contractual situation with the other party is defined or terminated. now the problem is that they do not know when this trial will end, and on the other hand we are with the patience finished and we want something official and also the issue is in the hands of lawyers who everyone already knows what they are like

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Oban:

No, my reading comprehansion is just fime, salty are we?

There's plenty of mentions about the radar being malicious within this thread, if you've been following it.

 

I'd say your "comprehansion" is not "fime". And I am not "salty", I am angry that you deliberately misrepresented what I wrote!

I don't care about any "mentions" in this thread, claiming whatever. Those were not written by me. And no, I also have not been following all 92 pages of this.

I want the radar of the Strike Eagle to work again, as it clearly has been working before. 

Who you think is responsible or not is something I really, really don't care about. I want solutions, not speculation. So kindly leave me out of that.

 

[Rainmaker]

And while we are on the topic of ‘good faith’.  Good faith to whom exactly?  The customer?

Good faith to the customer wouldn’t be continuing to sell a product that apparently has a legal dispute ongoing.  Apparently this has to have been going on for months, no?  

Good faith wouldn’t be withholding payment to the company expected to support a product for almost 10 months, then expecting everything to go swimmingly the whole time afterwords and obviously having zero fallout plan if it didn’t  

And….in it’s current state, if purchased today, would have a major feature broken with no timeline on resolution. 

But the folks who haven’t been paid for it, pretty much at all, are supposed to just come back in to the rescue and fix it?  
 

Yeah, that all makes tons of sense…..

Edited June 17, 2024 by Rainmaker

[Mizzy]

27 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Just a friendly reminder to be kind to each other and keep the forum rules in mind. Share your opinion, good bad or indifferent, but understand everyone has their own point of view and opinion on all this. Thanks. 

null

[Hammer1-1]

45 minutes ago, Oban said:

Having been involved in, and privy to remuneration disputes, most of my colleagues involved couldn't wait to berate their employer and call them all sorts of things, citing the clauses in their contracts of when remuneration should take place, even within the first 7 days of late payment, by the time it reaches 30 days late, the barrack room lawyers again  start citing legal action, and threaten to walk off the project.
After 60 days of non payment, they aired their grievance with the client, who then asks "why" too. Some take their case to their lawyers, who then ask the same questions.

After 90 days of non payment, and things don't look like improving, and savings have been eaten into, they terminated their contracts, forfeiting all pay, and put it down to unresolved and unreconcilable differences, which in turn made the company no contractually compliant due to the loss of 30% of the manpower, which in turn was a further breach of contract between the company and the client, who then terminated their contract, resulting in EVERYONE losing their jobs..

This all heppened in the Middle East, where there was no legal infrastructure in place where workers were protected.

When it comes to salaries, everyone has to look after their own interests, and self preservation kicks in.

The terms and conditions of your contract in places like the USA and UK, are legal binding documents, and you are protected by various work laws, in this case, AFNAV's colleagues would also be afforded the same protection

I guess you've got a good point. I recently left Boeing because I have my serious doubts as to the quality of the MQ25 and I dont want to commit suicide accidentally. Im only half kidding btw...but the contract clearly stipulates when you will and will not be paid. The contract will clearly state what clauses there are that you have to abide by and the punishment breaking them entails. Everything that has been thought about from the attorneys, and agreed to by BOTH PARTIES is in the contract. The contract is the final say in what you can and cannot do; it is the job of the attorneys to interpret the contract; if it goes into litigation, the judge and/or jury decides what happens in the end. From what information is posted here, its not just a salary thats the problem; it is a symptom of someone not abiding by the contract. If you cant abide by the contract because of something later on down the road thats determined to be unreasonable, you ask for a concession....you dont go off into the wild and air your grievances to the masses and throw trash at your employer. THAT cant be forgiven. Thats how you burn bridges.

Edited June 17, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[Mizzy]

2 hours ago, exhausted said:

I hesitate to give you more fuel to make this more about you, but you have been provided everything you asked for and I think you've tripped on the steps to your own denialism ladder. Thank you for letting the serious folks continue discussing.

 

Wow, you classify yourself as a serious folk I am continuing discussing this with other folk, just not you (and a few others that have gone on my ignore list) so kindly and politely bow out rather than backwards and forwards !

Mizzy

[Mizzy]

On 6/12/2024 at 8:21 PM, Rainmaker said:

I dunno. Maybe the IP theft you call them guilty of?  Got anything to offer?

"

Without entering into the details of matters that are confidential to the parties, we firmly reject the allegations that the current disagreement between Eagle Dynamics and Razbam Simulations would be as stated by Razbam “due to circumstances completely beyond our control” and that it is “a situation that Razbam Simulations did not seek”.
 

On the contrary, the current disagreement is the result of improper actions that have been taken by Razbam Simulations, in breach of its contractual obligations towards our company and of our legally protected IP rights, and for which we are seeking a reasonable and forward-looking commercial outcome rather than entertaining legal claims.
 

We very much regret that Ron Zambrano has decided, without even pre-advising us, to make these disparaging public statements and, more importantly, to take the customers of the Razbam developed aircraft as leverage in the discussions with us."

Nick Grey

[SkateZilla]

4 hours ago, Oban said:

That's the word ! I forgot what they were called I should know as I make them too LOL

community mods are maintained by those teams,
The ED Updates revised several missiles built into DCS, the mods relied on those missiles, need to be updated.
 

[primus_TR]

1 hour ago, Oban said:

The terms and conditions of your contract in places like the USA and UK, are legal binding documents, and you are protected by various work laws, in this case, AFNAV's colleagues would also be afforded the same protection

That's assuming that the f15e devs had worked for Razbam formally, not off record. Actually that might explain why the f15e devs have publicly sided with the party who has wronged them; they have zero leverage to get what is owed to them by Razbam.

[Rainmaker]

10 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

"

Without entering into the details of matters that are confidential to the parties, we firmly reject the allegations that the current disagreement between Eagle Dynamics and Razbam Simulations would be as stated by Razbam “due to circumstances completely beyond our control” and that it is “a situation that Razbam Simulations did not seek”.
 

On the contrary, the current disagreement is the result of improper actions that have been taken by Razbam Simulations, in breach of its contractual obligations towards our company and of our legally protected IP rights, and for which we are seeking a reasonable and forward-looking commercial outcome rather than entertaining legal claims.
 

We very much regret that Ron Zambrano has decided, without even pre-advising us, to make these disparaging public statements and, more importantly, to take the customers of the Razbam developed aircraft as leverage in the discussions with us."

Nick Grey

Dude, I’ve been waiting for how many pages now for you to provide anything substantiating for what you keep peddling that extends beyond claims from a single party?  I asked you how many pages ago now?  When you got something, show something…otherwise….dunno why you keep quoting me. 
 

Statements don’t equal that. 

Edited June 17, 2024 by Rainmaker

[Oban]

2 minutes ago, primus_TR said:

That's assuming that the f15e devs had worked for Razbam formally, not off record. Actually that might explain why the f15e devs have publicly sided with the party who has wronged them; they have zero leverage to get what is owed to them by Razbam.

Exactly, nobody in a technical capacity works for free, nobody knows what the individuals salaries were, and what the wording in their contracts states.

Even SME's will have some sort of contract, if they don't, and it's not all transparent, then who's to blame for their unfortunate predicament?

[Mizzy]

2 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Dude, I’ve been waiting for how many pages now for you to provide anything substantiating for what you keep peddling that extends beyond claims from a single party?  I asked you how many pages ago now?  When you got something, show something…otherwise….dunno why you keep quoting me. 

Listen dude, I do things in my time and NOT yours so shut up and go and play. This was an accident post, it was hanging around at the bottom of my screen WHICH i THOUGHT WAS ALREADY POSTED.. Now, do the right thing as I thought I had already done and let's ignore each other before i LOSE MY TEMPER.

[IceyJones]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Oban:

Exactly, nobody in a technical capacity works for free, nobody knows what the individuals salaries were, and what the wording in their contracts states.

Even SME's will have some sort of contract, if they don't, and it's not all transparent, then who's to blame for their unfortunate predicament?

its not uncommon for small developers, to hire freelancers for bigger projects. in such cases its also not unusual, that those have "creative" payment modalities. like

- payment with money influx of the resulting sales

- payment in terms of percentage per sale

- etc.

i find it pretty condescending how you sell your opition here, pretty much selling it as fact when in reality, you have not the slightest clue about anything

[SkateZilla]

6 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Dude, I’ve been waiting for how many pages now for you to provide anything substantiating for what you keep peddling that extends beyond claims from a single party?  I asked you how many pages ago now?  When you got something, show something…otherwise….dunno why you keep quoting me. 
 

Statements don’t equal that. 

 

That's literally all there is, and all there is going to be until resolved.

Don't understand how you're quick to throw away one CEO's statement, but blindly follow another CEO's statement.

Edited June 17, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Oban]

Just now, IceyJones said:

its not uncommon for small developers, to hire freelancers for bigger projects. in such cases its also not unusual, that those have "creative" payment modalities. like

- payment with money influx of the resulting sales

- payment in terms of percentage per sale

- etc.

i find it pretty condescending how you sell your opition here, pretty much selling it as fact when in reality, you have not the slightest clue about anything

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

Freelancers indeed, so why is it down to ED to pay them? It's down to their client, there's nothing condescending about it.

I already said their pay could be related to performance bonuses, and that will come down to their employer, not the client.

In reality, you don't have anymore of a clue, than anyone else here.

[Rainmaker]

Just now, SkateZilla said:

That's literally all there is, and all there is going to be until resolved.

Don't understand how you're quick to throw away one CEO's statement, but blindly follow another CEO's statement.

 

I don’t need to blindly trust one’s statement when the other confirmed part of it. Payment withheld.  The other party did make a criminal accusation against the other and has chosen to make the claim (by choice) and pull the legal card out when it comes to substantiating. Also, again, for about the 20th time now, which court ruled on that exactly to make it so?  Choose to blindly believe that if you want. I don’t have to, and won’t. 

[exhausted]

1 hour ago, Mizzy said:

Wow, you classify yourself as a serious folk I am continuing discussing this with other folk, just not you (and a few others that have gone on my ignore list) so kindly and politely bow out rather than backwards and forwards !

Mizzy

Or what, you'll reveal that you haven't been serious all along and have only been denying everything simply because you disagree? Whoops, too late.

[Nightdare]

2 hours ago, Nasder said:

I am sure they have their reasons to do what they did with support. But I don't really care about why, I care more about that they did it. If they at some point provide a reason I might think "That's a fair reason, still shouldn't do that to us customers."

 

If RB is the party conducting business in good fashion, I see every reason why they had to do what they did, a company can't operate on good faith alone

If your boss stops paying you, at a certain point, you'll stop working, you can't continue giving free service to the customer while the bills are piling up, sucks for the customer, but they should then take it up with your boss

I'll reiterate: when the subcontractor is the party conducting business in good fashion, because even I as a customer, can see a company taking measures against a contractor that does not hold up his/her end of the deal

(...still doesn't change that the company should make sure the customer gets inconvenienced as little as possible, though if it's a specialized service/product, getting replacement quickly is not a simple matter of hiring a new party)

[exhausted]

13 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

Listen dude, I do things in my time and NOT yours so shut up and go and play. This was an accident post, it was hanging around at the bottom of my screen WHICH i THOUGHT WAS ALREADY POSTED.. Now, do the right thing as I thought I had already done and let's ignore each other before i LOSE MY TEMPER.

You look like you're fixing to pop. Go off and do something else so you can lose your temper there. Nobody likes witnessing grown people break down.