waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Ignition]

Just now, Pipe said:

more like we will lose those birds, dont think ED cares at this point!

When I say DCS I mean us the players of course. ED clearly doesn't care since they would have said and/or react different after these months of silence. DCS it's just a small fraction of this chaos.

[Beirut]

20 minutes ago, pathfindercod said:

This is the reason will not pre order or pay for early access to ANY program or game no matter who it is from on any platform. Now we have modules we paid for and canmt play? I bought the harrier sim and never even activated it one time, been to busy. Can i refund that?

 

Hopefully the Harrier will continue to function well. You should consider hanging on to it as it's an absolute riot to fly. 

[NineLine]

8 hours ago, Notso said:

But RB has specifically formally requested via their lawyers to ED lawyers to please remove their modules from the store until this issue is resolved.  

Please don't make statements like this unless the RAZBAM management has publicly announced this. If they haven't then you should not be talking about any lawyer communication at all, I have no way of confirming this but your status as SME makes a segment of the community believe you are some sort of spokesperson.

12 minutes ago, Pipe said:

more like we will lose those birds, dont think ED cares at this point!

That's simply not true, we care a lot but this situation needs to be dealt with, I also have assurances from our team we will do everything we can to make sure the older modules do not go the way of the Hawk, no matter how this ends 

[NineLine]

31 minutes ago, corvey said:

I agree, Notso.  I've been flying DCS modules since 2011 and never encountered jacking around with the date or AV to get any of my modules to work before.

 

So yeah, SkateZilla clearly proves a fact for which Ron chose not to participate in any sales, and yet here we are looking at the ED store page with the SE and all of Razbam's modules for sale.  Even Razbam's website removed forwarding links to sell said products. That in itself is indeed disrespectful.  That and the fact that several users and CMs here are continuing to say the module is still flyable which personally offends me because the RADAR system IS the bread and butter of the SE and without that the SE is a totally useless module.

 

I stumbled across this on another forum and thought it was a really good source of informational insight. . If this is fake please let me know and I'll delete it.

It just goes to show how simplistic an algorithm can be if this > that can do nothing ELSE radar code.

 

 

The M2000 and other older modules continue to work as expected. The F-15E radar bug was an issue with in the code of the module and we hope it will be fixed as well. The comment you shared are not an official statement from RAZBAM and should not be taken as such, many people do not have the full story and won't because it's in lawyer hands now 

[Ignition]

3 minutes ago, NineLine said:

That's simply not true, we care a lot but this situation needs to be dealt with, I also have assurances from our team we will do everything we can to make sure the older modules do not go the way of the Hawk, no matter how this ends 

Well, it's time for an official communication about this for the worse case scenario.

[NineLine]

Just now, Ignition said:

Well, it's time for an official communication about this for the worse case scenario.

I just said worst case scenario the older modules will continue that work, the F-15E I am not sure hence us offering a refund. There will be no official statement on this as such because both sides are still working on this so there is no need to assume we are at the point of no return.

[Mizzy]

8 hours ago, scommander2 said:

Indeed, it is another enjoyment of flying DCS mods on the sky and looking around details of terrains since we do not fly the actual plans and combat in the real life

Yes, DCS has many values to it's customers and I am leaving it at that. Enjoy DCS for it's many charms.

Mizzy

2 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

Sold!

Oh yes, a silver lining LOL...or their inhouse developers Belsimtek !!

Mizzy

Edited June 21, 2024 by Mizzy

[corvey]

Nineline, are you saying CptSmiley from the official Razbam dev team did not utter those exact words?  I'll be more than happy to delete that if its a FAKE excerpt from CptSmiley and even apologize for posting it.

[Mizzy]

2 hours ago, Vee.A said:

Is it? The Mudhen is indeed in a bad state, but they are offering refunds for it. And as stated in this post, the Mirage issues came from changes accidentally pushed that have since been reverted. All of them except the Mudhen are working fine. I could also see pulling the modules from the store making this whole situation more complicated for them, and it sends a bad message to the community

Yes, Razbam are not DCS

Mizzy

[Hammer1-1]

1 hour ago, Ignition said:

I don't think it works like that. More like DCS will lose the Av8 M2K and F-15E.

Thats about 12 years worth of money Razbam will lose out on regarding the F-15E. May be theirs, but it aint going to work anywhere else. That also includes ED since its their 3D model externally.

Edited June 21, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[NineLine]

15 minutes ago, corvey said:

Nineline, are you saying CptSmiley from the official Razbam dev team did not utter those exact words?  I'll be more than happy to delete that if its a FAKE excerpt from CptSmiley and even apologize for posting it.

I am saying he doesn't speak officially for RAZBAM. And we are trying to keep things to official communication.

[corvey]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

I am saying he doesn't speak officially for RAZBAM. And we are trying to keep things to official communication.

 

Gotcha, his testimony would be thrown out of court as irrelevant.    I highly doubt it, but whatever you say, it's your case. When digging in the deep wide web of things searching for answers people tend to uncover a LOT of stuff.   Instinctively, most people want to know the truth and not spoon fed a bunch of bull____.  We've invested a lot time and purchased a lot from ED.  We deserve to know the truth.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2024 by corvey

[Notso]

48 minutes ago, corvey said:

Nineline, are you saying CptSmiley from the official Razbam dev team did not utter those exact words?  I'll be more than happy to delete that if its a FAKE excerpt from CptSmiley and even apologize for posting it.

Its not fake.  He did say that.

[Oban]

4 minutes ago, Notso said:

Its not fake.  He did say that.

You're missing the point, they're not speaking on behalf of Razbam, they're voicing their personal opinions, and those opinions are probably not helping Razbam in the long run.

Unless it comes from their spokesperson, then it's hearsay.

I'm also willing to bet that neither M2M, CaptSmiley, yourself, or AFNAV are in possesion of the terms and conditions of the contract between Razbam and ED. 

[Notso]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

Please don't make statements like this unless the RAZBAM management has publicly announced this. If they haven't then you should not be talking about any lawyer communication at all, I have no way of confirming this but your status as SME makes a segment of the community believe you are some sort of spokesperson.

I'm NOT an RB spokesperson, but RB "management" (i.e. more than one RB person in the know) told me this directly.  And I have no reason to doubt its veracity.  I was told that RB formally requested the modules be taken down several weeks ago until this matter gets resolved.  I'm sure you can confirm it with your management if you'd like. 

I'm honestly not trying to stir up anything.... just trying to dispel rumors or incorrect assumptions from people who have asked legit questions.  If the owner/developer of a product requests that the seller stop selling their product, I can't imagine there's a legal hurdle to comply with that request if the owner of the product doesn't want you to sell it.  Especially if they are seeing zero $$ of the revenues from that sale.

1 minute ago, Oban said:

You're missing the point, they're not speaking on behalf of Razbam, they're voicing their personal opinions, and those opinions are probably not helping Razbam in the long run.

Unless it comes from their spokesperson, then it's hearsay.

I'm also willing to bet that neither M2M, CaptSmiley, yourself, or AFNAV are in possesion of the terms and conditions of the contract between Razbam and ED. 

AFNAV is not, but you'd be surprised what the rest of us are privy to.

[Oban]

3 minutes ago, Notso said:

I'm NOT an RB spokesperson, but RB "management" (i.e. more than one RB person in the know) told me this directly.  And I have no reason to doubt its veracity.  I was told that RB formally requested the modules be taken down several weeks ago until this matter gets resolved.  I'm sure you can confirm it with your management if you'd like. 

I'm honestly not trying to stir up anything.... just trying to dispel rumors or incorrect assumptions from people who have asked legit questions.  If the owner/developer of a product requests that the seller stop selling their product, I can't imagine there's a legal hurdle to comply with that request if the owner of the product doesn't want you to sell it.  Especially if they are seeing zero $$ of the revenues from that sale.

AFNAV is not, but you'd be surprised what the rest of us are privy to.

Interesting... in that case, in your expert opinion, is there a positive outcome in all this for the end users?

[NineLine]

22 minutes ago, Notso said:

I'm NOT an RB spokesperson, but RB "management" (i.e. more than one RB person in the know) told me this directly.  And I have no reason to doubt its veracity.  I was told that RB formally requested the modules be taken down several weeks ago until this matter gets resolved.  I'm sure you can confirm it with your management if you'd like. 

I'm honestly not trying to stir up anything.... just trying to dispel rumors or incorrect assumptions from people who have asked legit questions.  If the owner/developer of a product requests that the seller stop selling their product, I can't imagine there's a legal hurdle to comply with that request if the owner of the product doesn't want you to sell it.  Especially if they are seeing zero $$ of the revenues from that sale.

AFNAV is not, but you'd be surprised what the rest of us are privy to.

I have previously asked if any requests have been made to remove any products and was told no. And as I understand making any changes to how it is selling would not be a good move on our part. So again unless either side makes an official announcement to the public it's not useful here, I hope you can understand why.

[lead dispenser]

2 hours ago, Notso said:

I'm NOT an RB spokesperson, but RB "management" (i.e. more than one RB person in the know) told me this directly.  And I have no reason to doubt its veracity.  I was told that RB formally requested the modules be taken down several weeks ago until this matter gets resolved.  I'm sure you can confirm it with your management if you'd like. 

I'm honestly not trying to stir up anything.... just trying to dispel rumors or incorrect assumptions from people who have asked legit questions.  If the owner/developer of a product requests that the seller stop selling their product, I can't imagine there's a legal hurdle to comply with that request if the owner of the product doesn't want you to sell it.  Especially if they are seeing zero $$ of the revenues from that sale.

are you making an official statement on behalf of RAZBAM 

[WSXMAX]

2小时前，NineLine说：

I have previously asked if any requests have been made to remove any products and was told no. And as I understand making any changes to how it is selling would not be a good move on our part. So again unless either side makes an official announcement to the public it's not useful here, I hope you can understand why.

But the things is the F-15E is confirmed that there will be no updates until the problem betwen ED and RB. And even the radar, which is the most important module for F-15E is no longer avaliable. Even if RB didn't request to remove the F-15E from the store, you should take the initiative to do this. Because obviously you have no control over how this aircraft develops in the future. I don't think it makes sense to sell the aircraft beyond your control.

[SignorMagnifico]

25 minutes ago, WSXMAX said:

But the things is the F-15E is confirmed that there will be no updates until the problem betwen ED and RB. And even the radar, which is the most important module for F-15E is no longer avaliable. Even if RB didn't request to remove the F-15E from the store, you should take the initiative to do this. Because obviously you have no control over how this aircraft develops in the future. I don't think it makes sense to sell the aircraft beyond your control.

If ED is committed to selling the product, they are committed to supporting it, in my book. ED should be responsible for updates and maintenance on RAZBAM’s modules if RAZBAM can’t continue development. ED can show me they care about their customers by fixing all the outstanding bugs, at a minimum.

[WSXMAX]

17分钟前，SignorMagnifico说：

If ED is committed to selling the product, they are committed to supporting it, in my book. ED should be responsible for updates and maintenance on RAZBAM’s modules if RAZBAM can’t continue development. ED can show me they care about their customers by fixing all the outstanding bugs, at a minimum.

I wish ED will do this. But I don't think fixing all the outstanding bugs is enough. Because obviously our expect for F-15E should be way beyond that. And if you tell me that the current 15E will be its final form, I can't accept it.

[SignorMagnifico]

36 minutes ago, WSXMAX said:

I wish ED will do this. But I don't think fixing all the outstanding bugs is enough. Because obviously our expect for F-15E should be way beyond that. And if you tell me that the current 15E will be its final form, I can't accept it.

I agree. That's why it's a "minimum" goodwill gesture. It doesn't fix the issue at hand until development resumes and all RAZBAM's products are completed.

[NineLine]

2 hours ago, WSXMAX said:

But the things is the F-15E is confirmed that there will be no updates until the problem betwen ED and RB. And even the radar, which is the most important module for F-15E is no longer avaliable. Even if RB didn't request to remove the F-15E from the store, you should take the initiative to do this. Because obviously you have no control over how this aircraft develops in the future. I don't think it makes sense to sell the aircraft beyond your control.

Many things about the legal process do not make sense, but we are committed to following them in the interest of not causing further delays. We hope the radar issue will be resolved.

1 hour ago, SignorMagnifico said:

If ED is committed to selling the product, they are committed to supporting it, in my book. ED should be responsible for updates and maintenance on RAZBAM’s modules if RAZBAM can’t continue development. ED can show me they care about their customers by fixing all the outstanding bugs, at a minimum.

It's at a point where caution has to be taken and the proper steps need to be followed, is rooting around in their code at this point would not be the right approach so I hope it can be fix via other means. 

[OSIW]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb NineLine:

Many things about the legal process do not make sense, but we are committed to following them in the interest of not causing further delays. We hope the radar issue will be resolved.

It's at a point we're caution has to be taken and the proper steps need to be followed, is rooting around in their code at this point would not be the right approach so I hope it can be fix via other means. 

This does mean ED could fix it, right? It just wouldn't be smart to do that now. But in case there won't be an agreement with RB, ED would do it. Do I understand that correct?

[Tank50us]

2 minutes ago, OSIW said:

This does mean ED could fix it, right? It just wouldn't be smart to do that now. But in case there won't be an agreement with RB, ED would do it. Do I understand that correct?

Correct. If ED fixed it in the next patch for example, and RB immediately came back to a "Completely Different Code" to what they left, they could, in theory, turn around and sue ED for it.

Personally, I think a temporary agreement could be done to where RB at least keeps their modules working even if they're not doing any further development until a more permanent solution can be worked out.

That said, I think ED should adopt a policy of "Once the module is in players hands, we get a copy of the source code with every update in the even something happens and the 3PD can't continue". As for what that would mean, well, if Daves Sim Service can't maintain their Buccaneer because their lead coder and designer were incapacitated in a car accient, ED still has the source code and can continue the development, or at least keep it maintained until DSS can find replacements (which can take time). Obviously a fictional scenario, but a good example of how it could work.