waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[MAXsenna]

 
Well, it is just depressing to start DCS and I see my Antivirus catches AV8B as an infected file. Now to play DCS, I have to go about roundabout methods for example, like disabling the Antivirus or creating an exception to the firewall, but I see that it is already done. This should not be even happening. Then I see the F-15, with the radar bug...
 
I have yet to test out Mirage and Mig 19.
 
I guess, we got no choice but to patiently wait.
 
 

Well, why don't you take a couple of minutes of tour life and submit those files to your AV vendor, and to a service to the community while you're at it?
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Oban]

34 minutes ago, KungFu said:

Not giving legal advice, I'm giving advice from a customer's point of view.  Which is what I assume this thread was created for.  You know well and good that ED normally do not create threads like this .... ever.  Reading Reddit, Discord and other forums you can see the increased apprehension to buy anything related to DCS since the RAZBAM drama began

DCS is a niche market, it's survival depends on niche customer sales.  Hell you could say that DCS drives most of the combat sim hardware business, which is also niche.  If the trust is broken between ED and the niche consumers, DCS will either suffer or be no more.  You see because customers see the rift between one maybe two module makers and wonder to themselves will a purchase from a third module maker be wise because they wonder if they are getting paid or not.   Especially because ED said that the Hawk debacle will never happen again....and look where we are

Comparing Boeing to ED is a a pretty big and flawed stretch.   Do we have really have a choice flying commercially on what plane manufacturer we fly on?  Do we have a choice on which plane the military purchases?  Do we as consumers have the means to buy a Boeing 737 or Airbus 350?  We do have a choice when purchasing a module on DCS.

 

 

 

You've been told repeatedly that everything is in the hands of each of the parties legal representatives, there's no more can be said about the situation, no matter how entitled you feel.

The thread was created to keep people informed as to where things are, not to bitch and moan, like the previous thread, I doubt rhis one will reach 94 pages of drama/advice and opinions.

As a customer, you have a right to complain if you feel a product is not to your satisfaction, it doesn't give you the right to advise them of their business strategies.
99% of customers don't care about what goes on internally within another company, or whether that persons staff has been paid, customers want the product they purchased nothing else matters.
Comparing the Hawk situation to the RB situation is like comparing apples to oranges, completely different circumstances, the only similarity is that customers have the potential to lose out.

The comparison to Boeing or any other company like Ford, Rover, General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, is that if one of their products crashes and is destroyed, it very rarely stops sales and production, and their customers rarely terminate contracts just because of one incident.

It was nothing to do with purchasing any of said items

[lee1hy]

I was hopeful that this situation would be resolved, but seeing that 9 months had passed since this incident made me feel like there was no future.
 

I'm surprised that my comment on the ch47 forum came true before this incident happened.

I'm keeping an eye out for another unstable 3rd party I hope another incident doesn't happen

This is more wrost than hawk

Even if this case is solved,  won't be able to trust the 3rd party.

Edited June 23, 2024 by lee1hy

[maxTRX]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

Well, why don't you take a couple of minutes of tour life and submit those files to your AV vendor, and to a service to the community while you're at it?
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

You know what, I might actually do that.  I'll call Kaspersky Labs and tell them politely:  'Hey, I know you guys are doing a great job like nailing Israeli Pegasus, discovering some 'unlisted' commands in Intel's ME package, etc. but...  my DCS update process needs to be smooth so check these darn files and make sure I won't have any hiccups in the future'

OK, it's a double whammy in this post so it's probably heading for the trash bin, lol.

[MAXsenna]

You know what, I might actually do that.  I'll call Kaspersky Labs and tell them politely:  'Hey, I know you guys are doing a great job like nailing Israeli Pegasus, discovering some 'unlisted' commands in Intel's ME package, etc. but...  my DCS update process needs to be smooth so check these darn files and make sure I won't have any hiccups in the future'
OK, it's a double whammy in this post so it's probably heading for the trash bin, lol.

No need to call them. Just submit the files. I'm sure it has an option for it. Might even be automatic.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[maxTRX]

11 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

No need to call them. Just submit the files. I'm sure it has an option for it. Might even be automatic.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

I know, just trying to add some drama... as if we need more

[PawlaczGMD]

If the RB modules continue to work for now, but never receive any updates, and at some point you will need to revert to some older core version of DCS to run them, that might satisfy the contractual obligation so that you don't have to refund us, but obviously it puts a huge damper on all 3rd party modules. There is an expectation from players that modules will continue to work in the current DCS version, so that they can be used in MP, so you don't need a specific separate install for each abandoned module, etc. I would not be paying $80 a pop if this is considered acceptable.

IMHO ED needs to be able to provide rudimentary support (module is functional in current version) if the 3rd party devs stop working on them for whatever reason.

[Notso]

3 hours ago, Mizzy said:

How do you know ED hasn't paid Razbam ?

Because ED has been upfront that payment to RB has been withheld. Where have you been this whole time??

[SkateZilla]

10 hours ago, lee1hy said:

LOL  many RB defender talk like trash without fact 
RB defenders attack like kids whenever you say anything bad about RB.

If RZB honest, open the exact facts.

 

I've seen plenty of talk by both camps supporters, both sides get pretty opinion driven on the discord.

7 hours ago, Oban said:

Most people seem forget that the release of the F15E was already a shyt show between RB and ED, with accusations and finger pointing back then, and tempers flaring, oddly enough the same players are involved in the current bun fight.

I'm sorry, you are grossly mistaken. The F-15E Release was prolly one of the more smooth releases. In terms of Functionality etc.

 

7 hours ago, Oban said:

Nothing ED will say will appease the RB side of the house, and nothing RB will say will appease the ED side of the house.

Nothing needs to be said by either party until it's resolved one way or another,

There are no "Weekly updates" in legal proceedings.

The sooner everyone understands that and stops reading into rumors, comments and such on discord, regardless of the direction they go or who they support, The better off everyone will be during the legal proceedings.

Edited June 23, 2024 by SkateZilla

[SkateZilla]

3 hours ago, Oban said:

This !!
 

Also when I said The RB/ED side of the house, I was talking about the consumers, the people here. Not their respective management teams.

 

Cause that article is posted by a reputable source, on a reputable page...

As far as Delays, there was delays, but they were not related to this issue.

[MAXsenna]

I know, just trying to add some drama... as if we need more

Well, you got me!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Notso]

1 hour ago, lee1hy said:

I was hopeful that this situation would be resolved, but seeing that 9 months had passed since this incident made me feel like there was no future.
 

I'm surprised that my comment on the ch47 forum came true before this incident happened.

I'm keeping an eye out for another unstable 3rd party I hope another incident doesn't happen

This is more wrost than hawk

Even if this case is solved,  won't be able to trust the 3rd party.

 

You are misinformed. This has zero to do with an “unstable 3rd Party “. This has to do with a 3rd party who hasn’t been paid in a year and they can’t and won’t work for free. RB wants desperately to get back to work and and continue to give their customers great products. 
 

Regardless of the reason for this drama, IMHO, it would have been better if ED had continued to pay RB so they could keep working while they dealt with whatever issue Ed and RB we’re squabbling about. But I don’t know ANY of you that would work for free for a year. Well I guess in fairness HB sucked it up without getting paid for a year or more. But I think they either had deeper pockets or other revenue streams. Unfortunately RB couldn’t hold out that long. 

But this has NOTHING to do with “stability” as a dev shop causing the issue. 

11 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

I'm sorry, you are grossly mistaken. The F-15E Release was prolly one of the more smooth releases.

Agree with that. 

[Oban]

11 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Cause that article is posted by a reputable source, on a reputable page...

As far as Delays, there was delays, but they were not related to this issue.

Did you bother reading ALL the comments? They're quite telling, there's a lot of similarities and players kicking off 1 year ago towards ED.. same voices being vocal today.

As far as reputable, I seem to recall that Reddit was where this laatest cock fest kicked off.

[LordOrion]

1 hour ago, lee1hy said:

I was hopeful that this situation would be resolved, but seeing that 9 months had passed since this incident made me feel like there was no future.
 

9 months??

2 months are passed since all this mess has begun.

[Notso]

4 hours ago, Oban said:

This !!
 

Also when I said The RB/ED side of the house, I was talking about the consumers, the people here. Not their respective management teams.

 

LOL.  It was a minor delay and note it said "Not due to the module state".  I guess by that logic, HB's F-4 release was a world ending catastrophe given how much longer it was delayed than the SE.  

[lee1hy]

RZB's strategy failed. They had to at least do maintenance to gain credit. No matter how much <profanity> post they left on hoggit, it didn't work out.

If they want to get support from the public, they have to at least do bug fix. But most people who came out already got refunds.

goodbye 

EJECT ! 

[Oban]

1 minute ago, Notso said:

LOL.  It was a minor delay and note it said "Not due to the module state".  I guess by that logic, HB's F-4 release was a world ending catastrophe given how much longer it was delayed than the SE.  

Ah I guess you forgot how the community was pissed off and were blaming that the release of the Sinai map was pushed ahead of the F15E  ? 

My point here Notso, is that the seeds of discontent were already sown by certain elements within Razbam towards Eagle Dynamics, and the current situation has exasperated this tenfold.

[Notso]

42 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

9 months??

2 months are passed since all this mess has begun.

My understanding is that RB alleges, and ED confirmed, that RB hasn't been paid since the Release - other than a token payment right before Ron's announcement.  So we're ackshually more like 11 months now.  If you want to get pedantic and go by payment is due by the end of the quarter - then it is pretty much right at 9 months of payments withheld since the F-15E release.

32 minutes ago, Oban said:

Ah I guess you forgot how the community was pissed off and were blaming that the release of the Sinai map was pushed ahead of the F15E  ? 

My point here Notso, is that the seeds of discontent were already sown by certain elements within Razbam towards Eagle Dynamics, and the current situation has exasperated this tenfold.

What does RB have to do with what the community "thought" were the reasons for the delay??  I don't recall anyone at RB bitching at ED for the delay back then.  What "elements" sowed discontent?

Edited June 23, 2024 by Notso

[Notso]

DAMMIT!  How do you keep from embedding two posts together all the time??  Is it a time thing?

[Maduce]

14 hours ago, Romandv said:

There was a thread on hoggit yesterday about HB not getting paid earlier, as well as RB. Where is HB now and where is RB... That's what understanding of doing business is all about. 

I just found that thread today. Quite revealing. I was trying to stay a neutral as possible, but this shines a light on what seems to be a pattern of behavior. I will be holding off on any future purchase with ED until I feel comfortable and reassured that ED isn't in financial trouble and paying 3rd party devs. This is all very disappointing to say the least and could have been handled better by both sides. I hope both ED and RB pull through this. 

[Notso]

14 hours ago, Blackeye said:

Might have to do with the fact that HB has their own store and had at least some money rolling in. A business can only survive on "understanding" for so long - at some point they need to be paid to keep going.

Exactly!!!  "Understanding" doesn't pay the bills or feed your family.

[Tom Kazansky]

35 minutes ago, Maduce said:

I just found that thread today. Quite revealing. I was trying to stay a neutral as possible, but this shines a light on what seems to be a pattern of behavior. I will be holding off on any future purchase with ED until I feel comfortable and reassured that ED isn't in financial trouble and paying 3rd party devs. This is all very disappointing to say the least and could have been handled better by both sides. I hope both ED and RB pull through this. 

I hope you don't own too many of ED's products, because you would lose them all if everyone followed your example.

Edited June 23, 2024 by Tom Kazansky

[LordOrion]

1 hour ago, Notso said:

My understanding is that RB alleges, and ED confirmed, that RB hasn't been paid since the Release - other than a token payment right before Ron's announcement.  So we're ackshually more like 11 months now.  If you want to get pedantic and go by payment is due by the end of the quarter - then it is pretty much right at 9 months of payments withheld since the F-15E release.

I didn't mean to be pedantic, just point out to the other guy (not you btw) that RB stopped posting updates for 2 months or so, not 9.

Before that moment, none of us know or notice that mess since we still get updates and fixes.

Edited June 23, 2024 by LordOrion

[Notso]

27 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

I didn't mean to be pedantic, just point out to the other guy (not you btw) that RB stopped posting updates for 2 months or so, not 9.

Before that moment, none of us know or notice that mess since we still get updates and fixes.

 

I don't think ANY company would stop working after not being paid for 2 months.  That's not even a full quarter.  Also, ps that ED themselves said they've withheld payment since the release due to the alleged issue. 

 

I think the fact that RB continued to work without pay at all for like 9-10 months by not only just doing Bug fixes but also adding new features Like JDAMs, TFR, etc, while this dispute was on-going is laudable.  It means they fully expected the issue to get resolved quickly and everything would go back to normal.  

Edited June 23, 2024 by Notso

[LorenLuke]

2 hours ago, Notso said:

Regardless of the reason for this drama, IMHO, it would have been better if ED had continued to pay RB so they could keep working while they dealt with whatever issue Ed and RB we’re squabbling about. But I don’t know ANY of you that would work for free for a year. Well I guess in fairness HB sucked it up without getting paid for a year or more. But I think they either had deeper pockets or other revenue streams. Unfortunately RB couldn’t hold out that long. 

If, assuming the grievances of both parties are valid, at least in part, and it ended up going to court wherein (again hypothetically) RB lost whatever IP theft was alleged, do you think the court would consider the money you proposed to be paid as damages and award it, or would that be lost to the aether ('Well, why did you pay them when they violated your IP? That's on you.') ?

Even it it's foul, it's clear they think that some IP violation has gone on, and I can't say I don't see the business sense in withholding payment given this.