waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Notso]

3 minutes ago, KungFu said:

If this has been going on as long as some think, then maybe mediation was unsuccessful.

Very possible.  But the no pay thing has been going on since the Release last summer.  Which would then mean the issue was there BEFORE release.  If that was the case, why would ED then go through with the release in the first place as opposed to releasing and then keeping the money??

[CaptJodan]

3 hours ago, primus_TR said:

With Razbam out of the picture,  the 23 now has a much higher chance of coming to DCS as a high quality module. Seeing as how subpar the 19 turned out,  I'm glad someone else will be doing the 23. 

Some people really like to try and get out ahead of a story that has yet to be told, but these kinds of statements are not at all constructive.  

1.  Official statements from both parties continue to maintain they are working towards a resolution.  So RAZBAM is not "out of the picture".  At least not officially yet.  

2.  Even if RAZBAM stays in some capacity, we don't yet know if things will turn around that they will want to continue to create new modules, or just finish the F-15.  Unlikely, but for all we know a resolution is reached where they continue development on the Mig-23.  

3.  No one else has agreed to do the Mig-23, so "I'm glad someone else will be doing the 23" is also baseless and premature.  

It'd really help of people would stop trying to cosplay as a fortune teller, as it spreads misinformation about where in the process this all is.  

[Horns]

10 minutes ago, Notso said:

Then don't go there.  Simple as!

And FWIW - the RB discords were fairly well moderated before this drama occurred and they typically stomped out any Anti-ED sentiment.  However, Given the CM's are no longer being paid and have zero incentive to keep the kids in check, it doesn't surprise me that things have gone "Lord of the Flies" to a small degree.  I mostly see just passionate fans of the RB module's upset that this is all happening while they see their airplanes breaking and rightly so are pissed off.  

So Alpha Juliet was a paid employee when he was a CM? I always thought he was a volunteer for some reason, if he was paid I'm glad.

[Notso]

2 minutes ago, CaptJodan said:

Some people really like to try and get out ahead of a story that has yet to be told, but these kinds of statements are not at all constructive.  

1.  Official statements from both parties continue to maintain they are working towards a resolution.  So RAZBAM is not "out of the picture".  At least not officially yet.  

2.  Even if RAZBAM stays in some capacity, we don't yet know if things will turn around that they will want to continue to create new modules, or just finish the F-15.  Unlikely, but for all we know a resolution is reached where they continue development on the Mig-23.  

3.  No one else has agreed to do the Mig-23, so "I'm glad someone else will be doing the 23" is also baseless and premature.  

It'd really help of people would stop trying to cosplay as a fortune teller, as it spreads misinformation about where in the process this all is.  

The other aspect that most people don't know is that the MIG-23 was pretty close to being finished and Galinette from RB - same one who did the F-15E Radar and overhauled most of the M2000C systems - was the main coder for the Flogger.  So it was going to be pretty spectacular.  If someone else tried to take on building the Mig-23, it would be YEARS and of questionable quality compared to what Galinette had going.

[Rudel_chw]

On 6/24/2024 at 4:53 AM, BMO said:

If the customers have no trust anymore they will stop giving money.

 

That is my case, as this is the first Sale where I have purchased absolutely nothing, I decided to stop my DCS spending until I'm clear on what exactly will happen to my Razbam modules, as I own all of them. Wish other RB users did the same to show their concern, instead of just posting words on this thread, as in my opinion is the only thing that common users may do to have an impact on this situation.

[Notso]

8 minutes ago, Horns said:

So Alpha Juliet was a paid employee when he was a CM? I always thought he was a volunteer for some reason, if he was paid I'm glad.

I honestly don't know for sure if AJ was paid.  Maybe he was a volunteer.  Either way, the CM's have little incentive to do much while the whole thing is going down the toilet.  I can't say that I blame them.

[Horns]

5 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

That is my case, as this is the first Sale where I have purchased absolutely nothing, I decided to stop my DCS spending until I'm clear on what exactly will happen to my Razbam modules, as I own all of them. Wish other RB users did the same to show their concern, instead of just posting words on this thread, as in my opinion is the only thing that common users may do to have an impact on this situation.

I doubt that a drop in sales in this environment would be attributed to support for one party (or the opposite for the other). It's natural that people who are concerned about the future of DCS would delay purchases, regardless of how they feel about RB.

If there was a sudden bounce in RB sales in this environment, *that* might be taken to mean something...

[KungFu]

9 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

That is my case, as this is the first Sale where I have purchased absolutely nothing, I decided to stop my DCS spending until I'm clear on what exactly will happen to my Razbam modules, as I own all of them. Wish other RB users did the same to show their concern, instead of just posting words on this thread, as in my opinion is the only thing that common users may do to have an impact on this situation.

I purchased the KW on release, only because it was not an ED module and it wasn't EA.  I want the Chinook but no way I'm giving ED money until I can fly the F15e again.

Trust has been broken 

Edited June 25, 2024 by KungFu

[Mistermann]

6 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

That is my case, as this is the first Sale where I have purchased absolutely nothing, I decided to stop my DCS spending until I'm clear on what exactly will happen to my Razbam modules, as I own all of them. Wish other RB users did the same to show their concern, instead of just posting words on this thread, as in my opinion is the only thing that common users may do to have an impact on this situation.

It would be fascinating to see what this sales period generates in terms of revenue and units sold.  Especially as compared to previous sales and ED projections.  Of course we won't see those metrics, but rest assured ED is going to be looking at them and drawing conclusions.  

[Rudel_chw]

1 minute ago, KungFu said:

I purchased the KW on release, only because it was not an ED module and it wasn't EA.

 

ED still receives a cut on your purchase ... probably on the order of 30%  

On my case, I decided to skip on the KW, the CH47 and the Afghanistan map until this gets resolved ... however, I must admit with a bit of shame, that I did purchase the Kola map, as I simply didn't have the heart to miss on a map that I had been waiting for months, and as the Viggen is my favorite DCS module so far.

[Horns]

2 minutes ago, Mistermann said:

It would be fascinating to see what this sales period generates in terms of revenue and units sold.  Especially as compared to previous sales and ED projections.  Of course we won't see those metrics, but rest assured ED is going to be looking at them and drawing conclusions.  

Very true. IMO there's no doubt there will be a drop larger than any usual variation, and that will be down to the dispute going public. Whichever way it goes it will probably take some time to get back to the previous mark... but here's me cosplaying as a fortune teller lol.

[Rudel_chw]

6 minutes ago, Horns said:

I doubt that a drop in sales in this environment would be attributed to support for one party

 

I'm not witholding my purchases to show support for any party, its just the only way I see to show my displeasure at how long this business struggle is taking.

[Horns]

2 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

I'm not witholding my purchases to show support for any party, its just the only way I see to show my displeasure at how long this business struggle is taking.

My mistake. I think that message will get through loud and clear.

[KungFu]

5 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

ED still receives a cut on your purchase ... probably on the order of 30%  

On my case, I decided to skip on the KW, the CH47 and the Afghanistan map until this gets resolved ... however, I must admit with a bit of shame, that I did purchase the Kola map, as I simply didn't have the heart to miss on a map that I had been waiting for months, and as the Viggen is my favorite DCS module so far.

Oh I realize that, but at least they get most of the cut....hopefully.

[Cutter]

With all the uncertainty over the situation, I find it a bit odd to find the F-15E is included in the sale at a reduced price https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/f-15e/

$64 down from $80, as it's still in early access, aspects of the module are currently broken and there's no certainty it will be supported in the future. None of the other RB modules are reduced, AFAIK (apart from the SA map - and it's unclear how tied to this dispute that is), and it seems to me to just be common sense to stay away from them until we know what's going to happen. It just seems strange to encourage people to buy a module with such uncertainty. Anyone who does buy it, without the info available here, is going to be pretty disappointed with ED if the worst case scenario arises.

(I guess this applies to Steam users, like me, who seem unlikely to have access to refunds). 

Obviously I hope it is all resolved, as the game has given me a lot of enjoyment, and I don't have a problem buying other items like the Kola and Afghanistan maps.

[afnav130]

4 hours ago, primus_TR said:

With Razbam out of the picture,  the 23 now has a much higher chance of coming to DCS as a high quality module. Seeing as how subpar the 19 turned out,  I'm glad someone else will be doing the 23. 

Yeah because the 15E was horrible when it came out. Even now it's a pretty damn good module. Ever hear of a TFR system in DCS ever before? You know, the thing that DCS has never had? And it's incredible. How about the HRM that is insanely good?

[primus_TR]

3 minutes ago, afnav130 said:

Yeah because the 15E was horrible when it came out. Even now it's a pretty damn good module. Ever hear of a TFR system in DCS ever before? You know, the thing that DCS has never had? And it's incredible. How about the HRM that is insanely good?

I'm not much of a nostalgia fan. 

[MAXsenna]

My mistake. I think that message will get through loud and clear.

Well. I will by nothing this sale as well. Why? There's nothing to purchase. The whole store just displays "bought" on everything.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

With all the uncertainty over the situation, I find it a bit odd to find the F-15E is included in the sale at a reduced price https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/f-15e/
$64 down from $80, as it's still in early access, aspects of the module are currently broken and there's no certainty it will be supported in the future. None of the other RB modules are reduced, AFAIK (apart from the SA map - and it's unclear how tied to this dispute that is), and it seems to me to just be common sense to stay away from them until we know what's going to happen. It just seems strange to encourage people to buy a module with such uncertainty. Anyone who does buy it, without the info available here, is going to be pretty disappointed with ED if the worst case scenario arises.
(I guess this applies to Steam users, like me, who seem unlikely to have access to refunds). 
Obviously I hope it is all resolved, as the game has given me a lot of enjoyment, and I don't have a problem buying other items like the Kola and Afghanistan maps.

It's not included in the sale. Like Kola. It's the EA price.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Cutter said:

With all the uncertainty over the situation, I find it a bit odd to find the F-15E is included in the sale at a reduced price https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/f-15e/

$64 down from $80, as it's still in early access, aspects of the module are currently broken and there's no certainty it will be supported in the future. None of the other RB modules are reduced, AFAIK (apart from the SA map - and it's unclear how tied to this dispute that is), and it seems to me to just be common sense to stay away from them until we know what's going to happen. It just seems strange to encourage people to buy a module with such uncertainty. Anyone who does buy it, without the info available here, is going to be pretty disappointed with ED if the worst case scenario arises.

(I guess this applies to Steam users, like me, who seem unlikely to have access to refunds). 

Obviously I hope it is all resolved, as the game has given me a lot of enjoyment, and I don't have a problem buying other items like the Kola and Afghanistan maps.

That is an early access discount it is not involved in the sale. 

2 hours ago, Notso said:

This is what boggles my mind about this whole thing is that a governing jurisdiction is not spelled out in the contract.  EVERY international contract I've ever dealt with (and I've written a few) when dealing with international parties ALWAYS specified a mutually agreed upon legal venue where any court filings/proceedings, etc would take place - like New York or London, etc - to avoid exactly the scenario you describe above.  Otherwise both parties can just hide behind their respective court systems and go "nah-nah-nah" at each other.  

Also, every contract like this I've ever dealt with also contains mediation clauses that are used before it goes to court.  And no mediation clause I've ever seen says one party can just arbitrarily stop paying the other if they feel aggrieved as long as that party is still delivering their end of the contractual terms.  Stop payments are usually done AFTER mediation is unsuccessful.  

 

You and Skates need to go have a DM chat, you guys are talking about hypothetical and theoretical things here that do nothing other than confuse people looking for simple information and updates. Neither of you know fully what is going on and guessing will just make you go crazy. This situation has been going on longer than public knowledge and things have been happening that led to what we are seeing now. We just need to hold the line.

 

21 hours ago, spikef22 said:

If you are judging a company and business based off the behavior of its fans you are not speaking in good faith. Like I maybe a bit of a spicy meatball in the razbam server but what do we the community have to do anything to do with the devs themselves? The answer is nothing.  

It's their official Discord for their company, I would hope it would reflect them as much as possible. I do not think it does right now sadly. I understand the hard feelings but sometimes too much can be too much and moderation can be done without suppressing disappointment in the situation. 

[Moxica]

@NineLine Can you confirm that any real and significant news will be published elsewhere. In a new thread, article or smth. so that I don't have to visit this snakepit anymore. 
All the crazy gives me hayfever and a rash..

[SkateZilla]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

You and Skates need to go have a DM chat, you guys are talking about hypothetical and theoretical things here that do nothing other than confuse people looking for simple information and updates. Neither of you know fully what is going on and guessing will just make you go crazy. This situation has been going on longer than public knowledge and things have been happening that led to what we are seeing now. We just need to hold the line.

My Apologies, when the caffeine wears off I ramble..

Feel free to cleanse my posts to avoid public confusion.

[Erazor]

4 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

That is my case, as this is the first Sale where I have purchased absolutely nothing, I decided to stop my DCS spending until I'm clear on what exactly will happen to my Razbam modules, as I own all of them. Wish other RB users did the same to show their concern, instead of just posting words on this thread, as in my opinion is the only thing that common users may do to have an impact on this situation.

Same. No investments until the situation is resolved.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Erazor said:

Same. No investments until the situation is resolved.

As much as I respect the sentiment (I am seriously annoyed with the situation as well), I won’t do that.  I have literally spent my entire life waiting for a combat flight sim like DCS, and I want to enjoy every module that I can.  I’m at a stage where the money itself doesn’t have a major impact on my life, but missing out on the enjoyment of using these amazing modules would.  It’s the same reason I won’t return the F15E.  I love the module too much, and even if it might not have a future I want to keep the beautiful work that exists.  If the Razbam modules or got forbid all of DCS were to fail completely, I would be devastated. 

[NineLine]

2 hours ago, Moxica said:

@NineLine Can you confirm that any real and significant news will be published elsewhere. In a new thread, article or smth. so that I don't have to visit this snakepit anymore. 
All the crazy gives me hayfever and a rash..

If anything major happens it will be an announcement from our Management and/or RAZBAM management. I will update the 1st post with it, but you will see it highlighted elsewhere, you will not see major news intermingled in this discussion, it would get lost. At some point, I will refresh this thread by moving the discussion out to the old thread and just leaving the OP. Thanks.

[AbsurdBurds]

While I wish that Razbam and Eagle Dynamics will come to an amicable agreement, I won’t let a few drops of spilled milk ruin my fun.

I preordered the Chinook, bought the P47 and a campaign for the Jug today. I buy a few modules every sale and I will continue to do so!

The dispute will resolve itself or not. A few vocal SJWs won’t affect the resolution one way or the other.

Edited June 25, 2024 by AbsurdBurds
Poor grammar