waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Mizzy]

2 hours ago, Nightdare said:

 

Yeah, you know 'a person' who 'knows 'an entity' that told RB to stop developing a module

Of course you can't say what the exact issue was, why they were asked to be stopped and if this could have repercussions on ED if they didn't

 

But what you are saying is that RB was told by 2 parties to stop developing something, ED and some entity someone told you about, which you can't give any verification from if that is true

He didn't say he knows a person who 'knows', he said he knows a person who "would know". So, he doesn't really know anything and don't expect any verification of the guy who 'would know' if the person even exists. An absolute masterclass in 'heresay'.

Mizzy

[HWasp]

14 hours ago, Mizzy said:

Read the first post, you will know what exactly happened ! Or do you wish to stay in ignorance of this dispute from 'official' sources? 

Mizzy

Can you quote the part of the official statement where the exact actions taken by ED are detailed? I can't find that part, sorry. 

Without that I don't know if they went nuclear immediately or not and you don't know either. 

[HWasp]

On 1/17/2025 at 7:14 PM, Nightdare said:

 

That RB is risking their developers' pay over a contract breach is on RB, ED has its own employees to worry about

 

"Sorry boys, we're done, RB got our IP protection destroyed and all your hard work is now publicly available for anyone to use"

 

"Oh, BTW other contractors: sorry, you can let your people out too, DCS just went bust, no more money for you either"

 

"Hi Customers, yeah about that 1-4 modules that may have become unusable,...well, it's now ALL of them,... no not all 4 RB modules,... ALL modules in DCS, props, jets, heli's maps, tech packs, oh, also no more DCS core, thank you for your support, bye now!"

 

It was certainly a stupid idea on RBs part to do anything with ED's IP without crystal clear written agreements, but overall that Tucano story does not sound malicious to me because they did not just sell something without cutting ED in, they used it to gain info for a future DCS module, that would be sold through ED the usual way later.

I don't think this was ok on their part, but suggesting that DCS would potentially die if ED didn't react this way is laughable to me, sorry.

[MAXsenna]

59 minutes ago, HWasp said:

I don't think this was ok on their part, but suggesting that DCS would potentially die if ED didn't react this way is laughable to me, sorry.

I believe they were worried about precedence. 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

16 hours ago, afnav130 said:

Wrong, I know from a person who would know, not anyone from RB, that there was an issue with a version of the ST that RB was going to model. They got the request to stop from an entity that wasn't ED. 

Bet you didn't know that, did you? Nevermind, don't have to bet, I know you didn't. 

Cool, my uncle works for Nintendo.

Edited January 19 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[HWasp]

53 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

I believe they were worried about precedence. 

I think, in this case it would have been a more reasonable reaction to simply stop them from releasing the DCS Tucano. Allegedly they did the military contract for "free", in return for the information, so if they can't release it for DCS, that is clear loss for them and sends the necessary message imo. 

Another option could have been to increase ED's cut on the DCS Tucano, and cancel the module only if they refuse.

Edited January 19 by HWasp

[MAXsenna]

I think, in this case it would have been a more reasonable reaction to simply stop them from releasing the DCS Tucano. Allegedly they did the military contract for "free", in return for the information, so if they can't release it for DCS, that is clear loss for them and sends the necessary message imo. 
Another option could have been to increase ED's cut on the DCS Tucano, and cancel the module only if they refuse.

I don't know anything other than rumours and leaks.
I just want them to kiss and make up. People do it all the time in the real world with matters that don't involve money and can be way more destructive on a personal level for a human being.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Oban]

1 hour ago, HWasp said:

I think, in this case it would have been a more reasonable reaction to simply stop them from releasing the DCS Tucano. Allegedly they did the military contract for "free", in return for the information, so if they can't release it for DCS, that is clear loss for them and sends the necessary message imo. 

Another option could have been to increase ED's cut on the DCS Tucano, and cancel the module only if they refuse.

The Tucano wasn't for DCS, it was being made for the Military (MCS) two very different entities, with two very different licenses... therein lies part of the legal issue.

[HWasp]

1 hour ago, Oban said:

The Tucano wasn't for DCS, it was being made for the Military (MCS) two very different entities, with two very different licenses... therein lies part of the legal issue.

My understanding is that a Tucano module was planned for DCS as well using the info gathered making the MCS version. 

 

[Ignition]

What a disappointing 2024, and 2025 and beyond doesn't look any more promising. I'm not interested in the F-15C, Eurofighter and much less in the F-35 based on demo videos.

I just wanted to fly the F-15E with a friend coop and buying all the maps to fly it in all of them.

I'm still waiting for a resolution but the only message I get from ED is they don't want to continue and don't want anything to do with the RB F-15E, after almost a year of complete silence and with the video reveal of 2025 with less aircrafts than 2024. If they want to improve the communication as Wags said, this is not the way.

50% of the video was showing the Eurofighter which it looks like it still needs a lot more time, if it weren't for Heatblur the video would have lasted 3 minutes.

The dynamic campaign looks like it needs at least one more year.

Also there's no news on AI ground path finding and logic. Combined Arms is the most expensive module for what it is, its really frustrating to move units on a strategic view, is not even a 1990 game.

I was never so disappointed for DCS, I don't even want to fly. Loosing 3 modules is not funny.

[MustangSally]

12 minutes ago, Ignition said:

What a disappointing 2024, and 2025 and beyond doesn't look any more promising. I'm not interested in the F-15C, Eurofighter and much less in the F-35 based on demo videos.

I just wanted to fly the F-15E with a friend coop and buying all the maps to fly it in all of them.

I'm still waiting for a resolution but the only message I get from ED is they don't want to continue and don't want anything to do with the RB F-15E, after almost a year of complete silence and with the video reveal of 2025 with less aircrafts than 2024. If they want to improve the communication as Wags said, this is not the way.

50% of the video was showing the Eurofighter which it looks like it still needs a lot more time, if it weren't for Heatblur the video would have lasted 3 minutes.

The dynamic campaign looks like it needs at least one more year.

Also there's no news on AI ground path finding and logic. Combined Arms is the most expensive module for what it is, its really frustrating to move units on a strategic view, is not even a 1990 game.

I was never so disappointed for DCS, I don't even want to fly. Loosing 3 modules is not funny.

Need a tissue?

[Oban]

1 hour ago, HWasp said:

My understanding is that a Tucano module was planned for DCS as well using the info gathered making the MCS version. 

 

If you believe what Razbam has said, then I do believe eventually it would have made its way into DCS...

[Oban]

20 minutes ago, Ignition said:

What a disappointing 2024, and 2025 and beyond doesn't look any more promising. I'm not interested in the F-15C, Eurofighter and much less in the F-35 based on demo videos.

I just wanted to fly the F-15E with a friend coop and buying all the maps to fly it in all of them.

I'm still waiting for a resolution but the only message I get from ED is they don't want to continue and don't want anything to do with the RB F-15E, after almost a year of complete silence and with the video reveal of 2025 with less aircrafts than 2024. If they want to improve the communication as Wags said, this is not the way.

50% of the video was showing the Eurofighter which it looks like it still needs a lot more time, if it weren't for Heatblur the video would have lasted 3 minutes.

The dynamic campaign looks like it needs at least one more year.

Also there's no news on AI ground path finding and logic. Combined Arms is the most expensive module for what it is, its really frustrating to move units on a strategic view, is not even a 1990 game.

I was never so disappointed for DCS, I don't even want to fly. Loosing 3 modules is not funny.

You still can fly the F15E with your friend, it still works as released.

Nothing stopping you from buying all the maps, this is youe choice

ED Have never stated they do not want to continue, and have nothing to do with the F15E... they do not have the source code to be able to do pick up the reins, if the partnership with RB ends.

Amazing that you can guage how much time a module needs based off watching a video, you must have psychic abilities.

Combined Arms isn't that expensive, if you want a ground simulator, try ArmA, or any other FPS, Combined Arms adds a tonne of good vehicles, that you can command if you so wish....why do you care, you said all you wanted was to fly the F15E with your friends....right?

AI logic is part of the core game, it's constantly being worked on, the 202X videos are more about major projects.

You haven't lost 3 modules at all, last time I looked, all Razbam modules were still available..

Your whine contains so much hyperbole. DCS doesn't seem to be the game for you, perhaps farming simulator would be a cool alternative ?

[galagamo]

If the issue cannot be resolved could they sell out to another 3rd party? A lot of waisted effort otherwise.

Wasn't there a bit of drama with the mig-21 back in the day something to do with Laszo? 

[Mizzy]

6 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

I believe they were worried about precedence. 

I think it's clear Zambrano was using EDs IP without clear authorisation to do so. Let's see what the outcome holds. 

Mizzy

[Ignition]

1 hour ago, Oban said:

You still can fly the F15E with your friend, it still works as released.

Nothing stopping you from buying all the maps, this is youe choice

ED Have never stated they do not want to continue, and have nothing to do with the F15E... they do not have the source code to be able to do pick up the reins, if the partnership with RB ends.

Amazing that you can guage how much time a module needs based off watching a video, you must have psychic abilities.

Combined Arms isn't that expensive, if you want a ground simulator, try ArmA, or any other FPS, Combined Arms adds a tonne of good vehicles, that you can command if you so wish....why do you care, you said all you wanted was to fly the F15E with your friends....right?

AI logic is part of the core game, it's constantly being worked on, the 202X videos are more about major projects.

You haven't lost 3 modules at all, last time I looked, all Razbam modules were still available..

Your whine contains so much hyperbole. DCS doesn't seem to be the game for you, perhaps farming simulator would be a cool alternative ?

Yes I still can fly a module which had 6 months of updates since release in EA and 1 year of nothing. I don't waste time on modules which are lacking many core systems and I don't know what's going to happen. I only fly aircraft which are almost complete or are worth learning meanwhile they are updated. It also has bugs on multicrew. For a EA release was really good but 1 year after in the exact same condition is not acceptable for me. Why I will waste time flying a module that is half done. Only if you play DCS casually to shoot some stuff.

Combined arms is 40 dollars, its very infuriating to use it on a grand campaign when the units get stuck all the time. We play a dynamic campaign incorporating combined arms to capture many places and its really annoying to use since the AI is so basic. For example it doesn't know their surroundings, they don't work independently, they don't have reverse, you can't separate units from a formation or regroup them to another. It has been like this since the release, 12 years ago but it was very cheap back then like 15 dollars. Now it's 40 and its exactly the same.

[NineLine]

On 1/18/2025 at 6:51 PM, afnav130 said:

Wrong, I know from a person who would know, not anyone from RB, that there was an issue with a version of the ST that RB was going to model. They got the request to stop from an entity that wasn't ED. 

Bet you didn't know that, did you? Nevermind, don't have to bet, I know you didn't. 

I knew a guy, not the guy you think, but another guy you probably know, but can't guess, well he did something, nothing you are thinking of but something you know and got in trouble with this other guy, you know him but I won't say, then that guy told the other guy to stop it, and then they stopped, and then there was a forum post by some other guy. 

[Wostg]

lol <profanity> him up!!

 

6 hours ago, Ignition said:

What a disappointing 2024, and 2025 and beyond doesn't look any more promising. I'm not interested in the F-15C, Eurofighter and much less in the F-35 based on demo videos.

I just wanted to fly the F-15E with a friend coop and buying all the maps to fly it in all of them.

I'm still waiting for a resolution but the only message I get from ED is they don't want to continue and don't want anything to do with the RB F-15E, after almost a year of complete silence and with the video reveal of 2025 with less aircrafts than 2024. If they want to improve the communication as Wags said, this is not the way.

50% of the video was showing the Eurofighter which it looks like it still needs a lot more time, if it weren't for Heatblur the video would have lasted 3 minutes.

The dynamic campaign looks like it needs at least one more year.

Also there's no news on AI ground path finding and logic. Combined Arms is the most expensive module for what it is, its really frustrating to move units on a strategic view, is not even a 1990 game.

I was never so disappointed for DCS, I don't even want to fly. Loosing 3 modules is not funny.

ok ron lol

Edited January 20 by Wostg

[ebabil]

ED should get whatever they can get from the RB F-15E and build their own on it. 

[msi1411]

32 minutes ago, ebabil said:

ED should get whatever they can get from the RB F-15E and build their own on it. 

Not possible, that would be a breach of Razbams IP on EDs part

[Horns]

3 hours ago, msi1411 said:

Not possible, that would be a breach of Razbams IP on EDs part

...and Nick Grey screams "HOW DO YOU LIKE IT?!"

[Jayhawk1971]

Am 19.1.2025 um 03:51 schrieb afnav130:

Wrong, I know from a person who would know, not anyone from RB, that there was an issue with a version of the ST that RB was going to model. They got the request to stop from an entity that wasn't ED. 

Bet you didn't know that, did you? Nevermind, don't have to bet, I know you didn't. 

 

[LorenLuke]

I'm just sad about what could have been without this nonsense, especially since we didn't get what was advertised.

Remember Ron saying 'The year of the strike eagle!' every week for half a year since they announced it, and we didn't even get nine months.

[PLAAF]

I really don't get why this is such a big issue here. ED is accusing Razbam of making something unlicensed and Razbam is accusing ED of labour law violation.

OK, Razbam. Hand over the things you were not supposed to make. And ED, folk over the money. Case closed. You two can go back to the adult hotel to rendezvous or just shake in your cars again...... Just make sure the handbrake is on, OK? 

Sometimes I wonder if this is another one of those SNK VS CAPCOM things.

Edited January 22 by PLAAF

[AndyJWest]

46 minutes ago, PLAAF said:

I really don't get why this is such a big issue here. ED is accusing Razbam of making something unlicensed and Razbam is accusing ED of labour law violation.

OK, Razbam. Hand over the things you were not supposed to make. And ED, folk over the money. Case closed. You two can go back to the adult hotel to rendezvous or just shake in your cars again...... Just make sure the handbrake is on, OK? 

Sometimes I wonder if this is another one of those SNK VS CAPCOM things.

This is a contract dispute. There are no 'labour laws' involved, since ED doesn't employ anyone at Razbam.