waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Oban]

35 minutes ago, Pipe said:

 

ED Provided a statement within their legal counsel,

RB on the other hand, has had zero tact or shown zero legal responsibility in their continued "Leaks" of confidential conversations that not only implicate themselves but other developers from other teams.

You are free to choose whomever you want to support, that's your freedom.
But to come here and post unsubstantiated claims, reddit and discord theories and be confrontational w/ everyone else in a thread that's supposed to be clean of un-official statements, is a bit zealous. 

If the F-15E is all you have, and you are this triggered by it's current state, to save your heart rate and blood pressure from turmoil I suggest you initiate the refund procedure and be on your way.

 

why do you insist on calling this a refund? It clearly is not..

ED were under no obligations to offer any type of refund to begin with for the F15E, and as much as you dislike it, store credit is a type of refund.

[Ignition]

1 hour ago, Oban said:

ED were under no obligations to offer any type of refund to begin with for the F15E, and as much as you dislike it, store credit is a type of refund.

This type of refund is damage control for a defective business model. ED expected the community to stay still and silent all this time, 7 months without updates for all Razbam modules.

I don't know who's right or not, but I appreciate Razbam to communicate their intentions. Imagine 7 months of complete silence without any module update.

 

[Mizzy]

9 minutes ago, Ignition said:

I don't know who's right or not, but I appreciate Razbam to communicate their intentions. 

 

And what are Razbam's intentions?

[Oban]

Here we go again...

How do you know what ED expected? Were you in the board meeting when ED looked over the fine print and have gone down the road they have, they have their reasons, as Razbam have theirs. Are you privy to the terms and conditions of the binding contracts between ED and RB?

Are you privy to the Terms and Conditions between RB and their 3rd party Devs?  Do you know if they were under an NDA whilst contracted to RB? If not, then you know nothing, I doubt even the ED legal team have copies of the 3rd party devs T's and C's

One has opted to keep everything legal and stuck by their original statement , the other has opted to leak everything on various social media platforms.

Both have caused enough drama to make their professional relation non tenable, unfortunately RB has a chequered history, and they stand to lose more than anyone.

 

[TKhaos]

I'm not sure what everyone else thinks, or if it's just me being set in my ways but I much prefer the original 1993 Groundhog Day with Bill Murray, this remake is turning out to be quite cr@p

[Oban]

Rinse repeat

[Beirut]

35 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

And what are Razbam's intentions?

 

Profit, mayhem, and world domination. 

[Ignition]

40 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

And what are Razbam's intentions?

Read the OP, not difficult and it was available for 5 months now.

Edited September 9, 2024 by Ignition

[MAXsenna]

I'm not sure what everyone else thinks, or if it's just me being set in my ways but I much prefer the original 1993 Groundhog Day with Bill Murray, this remake is turning out to be quite cr@p

Ever had a conversation
That you realise you've had before
Isn't it strange?
Have you ever talked to someone
And you feel you know what's coming next
It feels pre-arranged
'Cause you know that you've heard it before
And you feel that this moment in time is surreal
'Cause you know when you feel Deja vu

Up the Irons!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[TKhaos]

8 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Ever had a conversation
That you realise you've had before
Isn't it strange?
Have you ever talked to someone
And you feel you know what's coming next
It feels pre-arranged
'Cause you know that you've heard it before
And you feel that this moment in time is surreal
'Cause you know when you feel Deja vu

Up the Irons!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Some of the responses I've seen were just cut and past, either that or predictive text

You can predict who will respond to a post and guess quite accurately what they are going to say, even if it's nothing to do with the post.

[Beirut]

4 minutes ago, TKhaos said:

Some of the responses I've seen were just cut and past, either that or predictive text

You can predict who will respond to a post and guess quite accurately what they are going to say, even if it's nothing to do with the post.

 

I knew you'd say that. 

[MAXsenna]

Some of the responses I've seen were just cut and past, either that or predictive text
You can predict who will respond to a post and guess quite accurately what they are going to say, even if it's nothing to do with the post.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

 
I knew you'd say that. 

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[felixx75]

[SkateZilla]

13 hours ago, Pipe said:

 

ED Provided a statement within their legal counsel,

RB on the other hand, has had zero tact or shown zero legal responsibility in their continued "Leaks" of confidential conversations that not only implicate themselves but other developers from other teams.

You are free to choose whomever you want to support, that's your freedom.
But to come here and post unsubstantiated claims, reddit and discord theories and be confrontational w/ everyone else in a thread that's supposed to be clean of un-official statements, is a bit zealous. 

If the F-15E is all you have, and you are this triggered by it's current state, to save your heart rate and blood pressure from turmoil I suggest you initiate the refund procedure and be on your way.

 

why do you insist on calling this a refund? It clearly is not..

Yes, A Store Credit is a valid type of Refund.
Considering there is no precedent or return policy in place for this situation, ED or any company for that matter, is not required to return funds in the same form / currency used to purchase. The fact that ED is offering Credit for the module, going against their own policy, to appease customers, is somehow viewed negatively, is astounding.

Considering Steam themselves has basically told every customer "too bad so sad" so far.


Per the Goog.:
 

Quote

Store credit is a form of refund that customers can use towards future purchases at a specific store, instead of receiving a cash refund for a return or exchange. Offering store credit to customers is a great way to encourage repeat business and customer loyalty.

 

11 hours ago, Mizzy said:

And what are Razbam's intentions?

 

10 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

Profit, mayhem, and world domination. 

 

Edited September 9, 2024 by SkateZilla

[NineLine]

Just hidden a few messages, lets not resort to name calling, this includes the people at RAZBAM, please and thank you. 

[Citizen]

5 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

The fact that ED is offering Credit for the module, going against their own policy, to appease customers, is somehow viewed negatively, is astounding.

The questionable part to me is that a significant number of folks will use store credit to purchase other 3rd party modules, and those third parties won't be compensated.  Essentially, this moves a portion of the debt to other 3rd parties.

Regardless of how people feel about ED or RB, I think we can all agree that an entity such as Polychop, OnReTech, IFE etc didn't do anything in this situation that would necessitate them not being paid for their work.

[exhausted]

20 hours ago, Pipe said:

 

ED Provided a statement within their legal counsel,

RB on the other hand, has had zero tact or shown zero legal responsibility in their continued "Leaks" of confidential conversations that not only implicate themselves but other developers from other teams.

You are free to choose whomever you want to support, that's your freedom.
But to come here and post unsubstantiated claims, reddit and discord theories and be confrontational w/ everyone else in a thread that's supposed to be clean of un-official statements, is a bit zealous. 

If the F-15E is all you have, and you are this triggered by it's current state, to save your heart rate and blood pressure from turmoil I suggest you initiate the refund procedure and be on your way.

 

why do you insist on calling this a refund? It clearly is not..

Did you not see Nineline's message? Mischaracterizing someone's position is in the same vein as name calling. If you think about it, the entire issue would have gone away if RB's claims did not have substance. People have a lot of reasons for doubting the other side and supporting the information available, whether it comes from a lawyer's mouth or not.

[MAXsenna]

The questionable part to me is that a significant number of folks will use store credit to purchase other 3rd party modules, and those third parties won't be compensated.  Essentially, this moves a portion of the debt to other 3rd parties.

Regardless of how people feel about ED or RB, I think we can all agree that an entity such as Polychop, OnReTech, IFE etc didn't do anything in this situation that would necessitate them not being paid for their work.

Are you sure about that? Why wouldn't those 3rd parties receive hard cash due to sales? As far as I know, store credit ain't Miles, which could lead to non profit for 3rd parties.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[WipeUout]

56 minutes ago, Citizen said:

The questionable part to me is that a significant number of folks will use store credit to purchase other 3rd party modules, and those third parties won't be compensated.  Essentially, this moves a portion of the debt to other 3rd parties.

Why would they not be compensated? The money that was paid for a RB module is simply going back in the virtual pot and then used to pay for another module???  The money would have been going to RB but that specific sale is lost.  Which is an indirect incentive for RB to resolve quicker before they loose a significant portion of the F-15E sales. 

[exhausted]

18 hours ago, Mizzy said:

And what are Razbam's intentions?

What is your desired end state, if you are finally able to prove whatever point it is you are trying about Razbam?

1 minute ago, WipeUout said:

Why would they not be compensated? The money that was paid for a RB module is simply going back in the virtual pot and then used to pay for another module???  The money would have been going to RB but that specific sale is lost.  Which is an indirect incentive for RB to resolve quicker before they loose a significant portion of the F-15E sales. 

The problem is you can't pay vendors with points, and it's a question of where the money is going if it is even going anywhere. It might not be going to the 3rd party when points are used for customer satisfaction in this case.

[WipeUout]

5 minutes ago, exhausted said:

The problem is you can't pay vendors with points, and it's a question of where the money is going if it is even going anywhere. It might not be going to the 3rd party when points are used for customer satisfaction in this case.

Understand but money was used in the first place for the F-15E module.  Part of that money was sales for RB, instead it will go to another party. 

Edited September 9, 2024 by WipeUout
Typo

[MAXsenna]

Understand but money was used in the first place for the F-15E module.  Part of that money was sales for RB, instead it will go to another party. 

This is how I assume it works too.

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[Davee]

18 hours ago, TKhaos said:

I'm not sure what everyone else thinks, or if it's just me being set in my ways but I much prefer the original 1993 Groundhog Day with Bill Murray, this remake is turning out to be quite cr@p

Right, there was a love story underscoring the events.   

[NineLine]

Wait, they remade Groundhog Day? (yes I know I am off topic but this thread needs it)

24 minutes ago, exhausted said:

The problem is you can't pay vendors with points

The refunds are not done with ED Miles. 

[Oban]

23 minutes ago, exhausted said:

Did you not see Nineline's message? Mischaracterizing someone's position is in the same vein as name calling. If you think about it, the entire issue would have gone away if RB's claims did not have substance. People have a lot of reasons for doubting the other side and supporting the information available, whether it comes from a lawyer's mouth or not.

Where's the mischaracterisation ?
At least two Razbam Dev's who have been involved in leaking snippets of conversations have been instrumental in why the current situation has gone from bad to worse. Whilst legal proceddings are ongoing, I'd say they're not helping the situation, they're making things worse.

You mention Razbams claims having substance, but no mention whether ED's counter claims have any substance, once again, are you in possesion of all the signed contracts between both parties.

The responsibility of paying Razbams 3rd party contractors lies solely within Razbam, and has nothing to do with Eagle Dynamics, their contracts are with Razbam, what's so difficult to understand?

Not one of those Dev's has shown their own personal interactions with Razbam Finance department, or through their legal representatives , not a shred of proof of their own legal recourse against their contractor, ie Razbam has been presented. Blind loyalty perhaps?

There's only 2 publically known facts here.
1. Razbam had payment from Eagle Dynamics withheld for alleged breach(es) of contract

2. Eagle Dynamics as above claim breach of contract, to include alleged Intelectual Property (IP) infringments

People have a lot of reasons for doubting BOTH sides, by people, you mean the consumer right? I'm also willing to bet that a lot of those doubters don't own the Strike Eagle, the module mostly affected by this fiasco, they're agent provocateurs... and I only see one party of this fiasco making a lot of noise and leaking stuff, whilst the other party made a single statement and has not veered from that.

So there's no mischaraterisation whatsoever