Is asking for SEPECAT Jaguar a good idea ? Or not.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Is asking for SEPECAT Jaguar a good idea ? Or not.

We already have a plethora of European AG strike platforms from 1960's and 1970's.

So would SEPECAT Jaguar be a worthwhile commercial mod. As I see people liking 1970's and 1980's legacy analog strike aircraft. 

I can see it, maybe, as 3rd party, from a dev who likes British and French jets.

jJaguar had a reputation for underpowered difficult jet to fly. But its weapon delivery system and navigation were really advanced for 1970's and 1980's. it saw combat with Indians, with British and French in MidEast and Africa. 

[Silver_Dragon]

By now, none 3rd Party has claims that module.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[Mr_sukebe]

Can’t say that I’m convinced that we already have a plethora of mid Cold War strike aircraft and personally I’d love to have a Jag

[DmitriKozlowsky]

5 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Can’t say that I’m convinced that we already have a plethora of mid Cold War strike aircraft and personally I’d love to have a Jag

Mirage 2000C

Mirage F1 and variants in single mod

Viggen AG variant

F-4E which was also used by Euros

Used to have BAE HAwk

Harrier II

On the way are Tornado , Typhoon, and others which I know nothig about.

 

I'd say its a pretty good plethora.

[Mr_sukebe]

One of those is a mod, the Mirage 2& is a 4th gen jet and the harrier we have is seriously modernised version. 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Seems like some dev , SnakeEye Studios, is or was working on DCS: Jaguar.

Thats all I found so far.

[Lace]

Jag is one of my favourites, I'd love one but at the moment the Mirage F1 is a decent contemporary substitute.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

4 minutes ago, Lace said:

Jag is one of my favourites, I'd love one but at the moment the Mirage F1 is a decent contemporary substitute.

There is FROY and Scurrent Serbian AF J-22 Orao. Japanese F-1. Those two seem like close 'PC clone' clones of Jaguar. Same mission , strike, operation from rough fields, same mission profile (low level), thus simllar design.

Design convergence.

[upyr1]

It depends on whether or not you want to see the Jaguar in DCS. If you do then ask away, the worst thing that will happen is no developer will work on it the best thing that happens you'll have some developer contact you to be a tester. The Jag would be cool. 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I would be great. It woud nice to see something more exotic and unusual in DCS. ED has self imposed limitation onnprohibition of experimental or non-production aircraft. Only aircraft for which there is open source information. So we won't have U-2. No Chinese PLAAF J-10, which is Chinese F-16. Highly unlikely to see realistic MIG-25, becouse its FM would be so similar to MIG-31. Sort off.  We are unlikely to get some interesting 'forgotten' types. DeHaviland Sea Vixen, Buccanner, F-111. Highly unlilely to get any V_bombers becouse its large size multi-crew. I happen to agree that large multi-crew is not appropriate for DCS, but online DCS community would likely disagree with me. On other hand, there are types which I thought would a no-brainer for DCS. F-8 Crusader, A-7D/E (vaporware), and legendary Hawker Hunter. Yet they do not exist for DCS.

[Northstar98]

I mean, it's not at the top of my list, but sure I guess I would like to see a Jaguar.

A Jaguar GR.1/1A would work on a Cold War Germany map for the mid 70s-mid 80s (if it included the North German Plain that is - based at RAF Brüggen and RAF Laarbruch) and would fit into Operation Desert Storm scenarios as well.

It would however be a fairly limited aircraft, which might make it more of a difficult sell, particularly with a late 80s Tornado IDS in the works.

Personally though, I think as far as RAF aircraft go from the era, I'd much rather have an RAF Buccaneer S.2B of similar vintage, you get a radar, you get Pave Spike, you get Cold War guided munitions and hey, maybe the potential is there for an RN version (though personally, I'm far more interested in the RAF version, which was far more historically relevant).

3 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

ED has self imposed limitation onnprohibition of experimental or non-production aircraft.

I mean, what explains the Ka-50 BS3 then? At best it's hypothetical and speculative, it never existed as the 2022 version depicts.

3 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

F-8 Crusader

Supposed to be coming by Magnitude 3, though haven't seen an update in ages.

3 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

A-7D/E (vaporware)

A-7E is hardly vapourware, FlyingIron posts annual updates which are always chock full of detail and progress. Here was the latest one.

[Mr_sukebe]

A RN Bucc, oh yes please!

[drPhibes]

18 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Mirage 2000C

Mirage F1 and variants in single mod

Viggen AG variant

F-4E which was also used by Euros

Used to have BAE HAwk

Harrier II

On the way are Tornado , Typhoon, and others which I know nothig about.

 

I'd say its a pretty good plethora.

And from that list, only the Vigen and F1 are "European strike platforms form the 60/70ies".

Mirage 2000C: multirole, and entered service in 84.

F4E: Not European, and technically it's more of a multirole aircraft than a strike aircraft.

Hawk/C101/MB339: trainers with a secondary offensive role.

Harrier II: While the AV8B is based on an European design, and a strike aircraft, it is not a 60ies/70ies aircraft (it entered service in 85).

[Northstar98]

4 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

A RN Bucc, oh yes please!

Well, personally I'm much more interested in the RAF Buccaneer as it was almost infinitely more historically relevant (Gulf War).

It's also capable of employing LGBs with self-designation capability, as well as a dedicated AShM (though both have the Martel, in their ARM and ground-attack/ASuW versions).

Plus it would fit on a German map, there are hardly any core assets to support mid Cold War RN, apart from the Leanders. It also fits on the Syria map

[Mr_sukebe]

12 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Well, personally I'm much more interested in the RAF Buccaneer as it was almost infinitely more historically relevant (Gulf War).

It's also capable of employing LGBs with self-designation capability, as well as a dedicated AShM (though both have the Martel, in their ARM and ground-attack/ASuW versions).

Plus it would fit on a German map, there are hardly any core assets to support mid Cold War RN, apart from the Leanders. It also fits on the Syria map

 

Fair points.  

That'll teach me to read the book written by an ex Bucc pilot of the FAA.  His story of flying to Guyana (IIRC) from the Ark Royal was an intriguing one.

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Fair points.  

That'll teach me to read the book written by an ex Bucc pilot of the FAA.  His story of flying to Guyana (IIRC) from the Ark Royal was an intriguing one.

Don't get me wrong, I am definitely interested in RN FAA from that period, it's just that it seems like the RAF Buccaneers (and Phantoms for that matter) saw more action (and more potential action if talking about a Cold War gone hot scenario and as it stands, we appear to have/are getting more stuff that would be relevant for the RAF, but less so for the Navy.

Of course, I'm looking at this from a more historical perspective, though the RAF Buccaneer also has a bit more capability and a bit more in the way of mission flexibility.

[Mr_sukebe]

Maybe we could be lucky and have the group currently working on the rather excellent Mirage F1, and end up with both versions…

[YoYo]

On 5/30/2024 at 9:57 PM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Is asking for SEPECAT Jaguar a good idea ? Or not.

We already have a plethora of European AG strike platforms from 1960's and 1970's.

So would SEPECAT Jaguar be a worthwhile commercial mod. As I see people liking 1970's and 1980's legacy analog strike aircraft. 

I can see it, maybe, as 3rd party, from a dev who likes British and French jets.

jJaguar had a reputation for underpowered difficult jet to fly. But its weapon delivery system and navigation were really advanced for 1970's and 1980's. it saw combat with Indians, with British and French in MidEast and Africa. 

Its a PERFECT idea for me. 

Im waiting for this module from years, now Azur Poly is doing Jaguar but for MSFS, you can talk with him to bring it to DCS too ...

Edited June 1, 2024 by YoYo

[DmitriKozlowsky]

What is this DCS userbase fixation with 1960's and 1970's Mid-Cold War European+American Vietnam era fast movers? Its like we are reliving Discovery Chanell, BBC, French, and German TV documentaries from 1980's - 1990's. Heck I watch re-re-re-watch them.Here is USA, we look back on Vietnam War as some mythical magical time. Even the Russians look back on 1960's-1970's as height of Soviet Russian power and technology. British are particularly fond of RAF and RNFAA operations in 1960's and 1970's when RN had angled deck CATOBAT carriers. Who does not love hearing pleasant calming voice of British cockney accented RNFAA LSO talking down a Buccaneer or F-4K down to the #3 wire. "Lovely, LOvely, tad right, smidge of power, lovely, HOLD IT RIGHT THERE , HOLD IT THERE... GOT YA' LOvely ly , just lovely". 

Edited June 2, 2024 by DmitriKozlowsky

[DmitriKozlowsky]

6 hours ago, YoYo said:

Its a PERFECT idea for me. 

Im waiting for this module from years, now Azur Poly is doing Jaguar but for MSFS, you can talk with him to bring it to DCS too ...

 

Its not on their site. So maybe they shelved it.

[Cab]

46 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

What is this DCS userbase fixation with 1960's and 1970's Mid-Cold War European+American Vietnam era fast movers? Its like we are reliving Discovery Chanell, BBC, French, and German TV documentaries from 1980's - 1990's. Heck I watch re-re-re-watch them.Here is USA, we look back on Vietnam War as some mythical magical time. Even the Russians look back on 1960's-1970's as height of Soviet Russian power and technology. British are particularly fond of RAF and RNFAA operations in 1960's and 1970's when RN had angled deck CATOBAT carriers. Who does not love hearing pleasant calming voice of British cockney accented RNFAA LSO talking down a Buccaneer or F-4K down to the #3 wire. "Lovely, LOvely, tad right, smidge of power, lovely, HOLD IT RIGHT THERE , HOLD IT THERE... GOT YA' LOvely ly , just lovely". 

 

If you have to ask…

[DmitriKozlowsky]

50 minutes ago, Cab said:

If you have to ask…

Well I think its all declassified now, so modules can be high fidelity from soup to nuts. Except IFF. IFF modes 3 and 4 are still classified, so can't really be simulated. But they can be adequately emulated in DCS, just by having one side set IFF code as specified by mission master. If playa' not set code  playa gets ded! Same thing for secure encrypted comms. Just have user go through motions of setting dials and rotaries properly. There is no need for actual simulation of encryption avionics. If settings are incorrect , the player cant communicate. As Khan noonien Singh would say "Let them eat static".

[YoYo]

4 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Its not on their site. So maybe they shelved it.

No, its a new project, still very fresh, early wip, check his FB.

[Qcumber]

I would love to see the Jaguar. I had the chance to sit in a cockpit last year. It would make a great module. 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

8 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

I would love to see the Jaguar. I had the chance to sit in a cockpit last year. It would make a great module. 

I suspect that many of DCS users, like real life Jag pilots , would find it underpowered. When Jag gets below power curve, it becomes dangerous and difficult.