Upcoming plane directors patch

[Foka]

Wags showed a few new options for plane directors. Great, but will these options be implemented to Mission Editor to force setting in the mission, like many others?

[N8AHbl4]

It seems like on the recovery one of the directors was in the wires, and Wags said it will depend on the ATC comms, which didn't sound good honestly. Hopefully, one day we will have all the deck configuration switches for the ME, triggers, and Boss like switches for each cat, launch recovery configuration and maybe to switch the availability of the parking/spawn points)
 

[Foka]

Another question. After recovery Wags is taxiing to the stern thru the deck. What if there are other planes in the pattern and next one is already in the groove?

[Biggus]

Will it actually work properly with the Tomcat within a reasonable timeframe?  I get that sometimes it takes a patch cycle for third parties to accommodate ED-driven changes, but at this point I've waited years to have it all working as well as it does for the Hornet.

[ShinyMikey]

I am also very curious about the mission editor options. I make missions for my group, and I feel like we will want this disabled for our MP missions. The options shown in the video looked like they would be in the special options menu, but there needs to be settings in the mission options menu in the mission editor so it can be turned off for everyone. I may enjoy this in single player, but in MP it will be much more convenient to park where we want and use whichever cat we want. Also, the Tomcat is my primary plane so I hope works equally well for all carrier aircraft.

[Foka]

Two more comments.

After recovery, while taxing out of deck, why there is a yellow text to fold wings? There is a hand signal for that. 2-3 years ago ED proudly announced changing deck crew "backend", adding sceleton, which supposed to make animations easier. So why we don't have "fold wings" signal.

Also after recovery there should be first hand signal for hook up, when hook clear the wire.

[Bonz]

On startup... Is there a plan to open up the number of Start/spawn locations to include the bow and Stern areas?

On Recovery... My group almost always parks on CAT 2, or we taxi directly to CAT 1 for launch (for trap-cat-trap operations). Is this possible with directors? If not., is it a future plan?

 

[Bonz]

General... Is it possible to turn directors on for Launch operations but off for Recovery operations?

 

[Slant]

Couple questions:

1. Will this work with the Tomcat?

2. Can we limit the catapults if we only want to take off from the bow or the waist catapults for some reason?

[Dragon1-1]

Also, can the automatic turnaround be turned off when the mission is complete? After all, if you're going to shut down the plane and not take off again, it'd be immersion breaking for no good reason.

[Dangerzone]

Wags - you had me at "Hey Everyone".  Love your video's! 

Really excited to be able to use this. Especially in VR, seeing a bigger deck.

I'd love to get some clarifications on the following:

• Wags mentioned to be take care to follow the plane directors carefully. Just I'm curious to know what happens if someone doesn't. Does it break the whole thing, or will they be able to taxi up to a cat like normal and it will still work from 'there onwards'?
• Also - will a players 'non compliance' break the plane directors for other players?
• How many plane directors will work at the same time. (How many planes can be spawned on the deck for multi-player missions and moving around to different cats simultaneously, or will it be a 'wait until the plane directors are free' scenario?
• Will the CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+T option (to reset back to parking) remove/fix the Jet Blast Deflector stuck up problems?
• Are the directors dynamic with where they send you, or is it hard-set that plane directors are set to spawn you to a fixed catapult locked to your spawn location? 
• With the Airboss, it's possible to disable certain catapults. Will plane directors honor this and redirect you to working cats? How does this work? (Does it disable certain spawn points, or are the plane directors smart enough to know to redirect you elsewhere).
• Is it possible to have CAT 1 and 2 disabled in mission editor (since the Airboss can do it manually), so that you can have a full/working deck with planes stored on the forward deck? (Or are plane directors aware of static planes on CAT 1 and 2, and will not direct you there if there are obstacles in the way)?
• Is it possible to enable/disable the plane directors using an API script and/or are their any other API scripts available for this?  (Disabling certain CATs, etc)?
• Is there a template / information on where we can/can't place static planes in order to not conflict with the plane directors and pathing?

Cheers

DZ

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2024 by Dangerzone
Spelling & Clarity

[rob10]

6 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Wags - you had me at "Hey Everyone".  Love your video's! 

Really excited to be able to use this. Especially in VR, seeing a bigger deck.

I'd love to get some clarifications on the following:

• Wags mentioned to be take care to follow the plane directors carefully. Just I'm curious to know what happens if someone doesn't. Does it break the whole thing, or will they be able to taxi up to a cat like normal and it will still work from 'there onwards'?
• Also - will a players 'non compliance' break the plane directors for other players?
• How many plane directors will work at the same time. (How many planes can be spawned on the deck for multi-player missions and moving around to different cats simultaneously, or will it be a 'wait until the plane directors are free' scenario?
• Will the CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+T option (to reset back to parking) remove/fix the Jet Blast Deflector stuck up problems?
• Are the directors dynamic with where they send you, or is it hard-set that plane directors are set to spawn you to a fixed catapult locked to your spawn location? 
• With the Airboss, it's possible to disable certain catapults. Will plane directors honor this and redirect you to working cats? How does this work? (Does it disable certain spawn points, or are the plane directors smart enough to know to redirect you elsewhere).
• Is it possible to have CAT 1 and 2 disabled in mission editor (since the Airboss can do it manually), so that you can have a full/working deck with planes stored on the forward deck? (Or are plane directors aware of static planes on CAT 1 and 2, and will not direct you there if there are obstacles in the way)?
• Is it possible to enable/disable the plane directors using an API script and/or are their any other API scripts available for this?  (Disabling certain CATs, etc)?
• Is there a template / information on where we can/can't place static planes in order to not conflict with the plane directors and pathing?

Cheers

DZ

Check out the updated Supercarrier manual that was posted earlier today (in the Supercarrier mini-updates thread) and it will answer at least some of those questions.

[Dangerzone]

20 hours ago, rob10 said:

Check out the updated Supercarrier manual that was posted earlier today (in the Supercarrier mini-updates thread) and it will answer at least some of those questions.

Thanks for directing me to look for the manual - found it here...

 

Only found a couple of answers to my questions - listed below in Bold for anyone else that might be interested. 

 

• Wags mentioned to be take care to follow the plane directors carefully. Just I'm curious to know what happens if someone doesn't. Does it break the whole thing, or will they be able to taxi up to a cat like normal and it will still work from 'there onwards'? 
  
  The Manual Warns that if a player doesn't adhere to plane directors, it can break the deck crew and the inability for the ship's simulation to operate correctly. Sounds like this will impose increase risk for MP servers where one player can ruin it for everyone else. 
  
  Maybe this could be fixed with "Enable simplified taxi signals while taxing to catapult or parking" (Page 55)
   
• Also - will a players 'non compliance' break the plane directors for other players?
  
  YES (See top of page 49)
   
• How many plane directors will work at the same time. (How many planes can be spawned on the deck for multi-player missions and moving around to different cats simultaneously, or will it be a 'wait until the plane directors are free' scenario?
  
  Unknown - but it does appear plane directors can direct more than one plane at the same time. (Page 48 and Page 52)
   
• Will the CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+T option (to reset back to parking) remove/fix the Jet Blast Deflector stuck up problems?
   
• Are the directors dynamic with where they send you, or is it hard-set that plane directors are set to spawn you to a fixed catapult locked to your spawn location? 
  
  Cat's appear to be hard-set according to where you spawn. (Looking at lines on Page 43)
   
• With the Airboss, it's possible to disable certain catapults. Will plane directors honor this and redirect you to working cats? How does this work? (Does it disable certain spawn points, or are the plane directors smart enough to know to redirect you elsewhere).
  
  Unknown how it will work if an Airboss disables cats. But given that it appears parking spots are assigned an individual cat - I'm guessing either the plane will be stuck, or maybe the slot will be disabled for spawning, and another slot will be used (or player will have the dreaded 'spawn delayed' message).
   
• Is it possible to have CAT 1 and 2 disabled in mission editor (since the Airboss can do it manually), so that you can have a full/working deck with planes stored on the forward deck? (Or are plane directors aware of static planes on CAT 1 and 2, and will not direct you there if there are obstacles in the way)?
  
  As per previous question - looks like either it's going to create issues, or if ED have thought ahead, maybe certain spawn slots will be disabled?
   
• Is it possible to enable/disable the plane directors using an API script and/or are their any other API scripts available for this?  (Disabling certain CATs, etc)?
  
  No info in manual, and nothing online. - May have to wait for Grimes to do his stuff before we will know?
   
• Is there a template / information on where we can/can't place static planes in order to not conflict with the plane directors and pathing?
  
  Manual has some illistration on where the paths are.

 

Also - in the manual it seems the ability to turn on/off the plane directors is in the special option. No idea how this works on MP if some have it enabled, and others have it disabled? 

Edited November 19, 2024 by Dangerzone

[Tomcatter87]

I'm really looking forward to this feature, it will add a lot of immersion to our sim. However I fear it might interfere with the way I set up flightdecks - which I and many others take pride in. Isn't the area in front of the island, the hummer hole and the junkyard, usually crowded with at least one E-2, helos, a tilly crane and other stuff? In the video as well as the updated Super carrier manual, it looks like you have to taxi right through there. I can't really imagine that in real life the space there is emptied for recovery - can anyone shed some light on this? Where would planes taxi when the are directed to the elevators on the back or to the ramp?

[Dangerzone]

7 hours ago, Tomcatter87 said:

I'm really looking forward to this feature, it will add a lot of immersion to our sim. However I fear it might interfere with the way I set up flightdecks - which I and many others take pride in. Isn't the area in front of the island, the hummer hole and the junkyard, usually crowded with at least one E-2, helos, a tilly crane and other stuff? In the video as well as the updated Super carrier manual, it looks like you have to taxi right through there. I can't really imagine that in real life the space there is emptied for recovery - can anyone shed some light on this? Where would planes taxi when the are directed to the elevators on the back or to the ramp?

The manual (see above post for link) has drawings of where the taxi areas are. If you work around that area, I think you should be right.

Obviously we're just hypothesizing at the moment. All we have to go on is limited information in the manual, and a Youtube video as questions haven't been answered yet. The rest may need to wait for us to experiment ourselves when it's released if we don't get clarity beforehand. 

[Nealius]

As demonstrated in Wags' video I don't see how this is going to work with multiple jets in the pattern. Taxiing out of the LA after trap took way too long, and being immediately directed to parking without control over where we're parked fouls the deck for anyone in the groove.

[Dangerzone]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

As demonstrated in Wags' video I don't see how this is going to work with multiple jets in the pattern. Taxiing out of the LA after trap took way too long, and being immediately directed to parking without control over where we're parked fouls the deck for anyone in the groove.

My guess is that this is an early release of a W.I.P. module. They've given us the ability to disable the directors as well, so I think once we have it, early feedback is going to be critical in getting this to a more usable state.

Also - given that the report is that there were 4 x the amount of resources spent on this than budgeted for, as a community I think our feedback needs to be clear, concise, and in general unison in order for it to be considered. 

Personally, I have a list of things I'd like to see already (although without more information, some of these may be already available):

1. Dynamic taxiing: (Any parking spot can go to any catapult), and that if a catapult is blocked (either by statics, or by another aircraft) - taxiing aircraft would be directed to the next available cat.
2. Dynamic taxiing: Another director can 'take over' an aircraft if it ends up in their taxi area regardless of how it got there. (Similar detection to the catapult crew how they detect that an aircraft is waiting to connect). This way, players could override instructions and get to another area and then have the AI 'continue' from wherever they are. Could be handy if things get stuck, or if a player has to get out of the landing area, etc quicker than the directors are going.
3. I'd like to see the landing area cleared faster than in the video too.  (Have director direct plane right out of the landing area before stopping aircraft and getting to fold up wings). (I could be wrong, but from the video it looks like the plane was stopped in the ALA?)
4. Option to enable/disable plane directors from script / API call. (Among other things, it could be handy to deactivate them, and then re-spawn/activte from a menu command, etc to 'clean up' stuck situations).
5. Option to enable/disable catapult (like Airboss slot can) but via API calls / script.

[draconus]

4 hours ago, Nealius said:

As demonstrated in Wags' video I don't see how this is going to work with multiple jets in the pattern. Taxiing out of the LA after trap took way too long, and being immediately directed to parking without control over where we're parked fouls the deck for anyone in the groove.

Wags comment:

Quote

The timing is fine, it was more a case of me being slow getting fully out of the box and them folding the wings.

and another in the pinned one:

Quote

We continue to tune how fast the deck crew taxies the aircraft out of the landing area. The video was WIP.

As I'm going through all Wags comments I found one especially interesting (but still confusing):

Quote

They [directors] are aware of statics and will direct aircraft around them to get to a catapult. However, statics should never be placed along taxi leg routes or along catapult tracks.

[Wroblowaty]

What might become problematic is fact, that for now it looks that cat's are hard fixed to spawn location. It might and i am pretty sure will happen, that you will be put on hold, because your assigned cat is occupied, while one next to it is free and could be used. I have hope that ED will be able and willing to update it in the future, so that if your "primary" catapult is occupied, you would be taxied to the "secondary". It could be paired to decrease number of combinations so that slots which have cat 1 as default if needed would be allowed to taxi to cat 2. Same with 3 and 4. This would require single "taxi node" at which it would be checked if your primary cat is free, if yes - continue, if not, check if secondary cat is free, if yes, go there, if not wait which one becomes available first.

[Dangerzone]

7 hours ago, Wroblowaty said:

What might become problematic is fact, that for now it looks that cat's are hard fixed to spawn location. It might and i am pretty sure will happen, that you will be put on hold, because your assigned cat is occupied, while one next to it is free and could be used. I have hope that ED will be able and willing to update it in the future, so that if your "primary" catapult is occupied, you would be taxied to the "secondary". It could be paired to decrease number of combinations so that slots which have cat 1 as default if needed would be allowed to taxi to cat 2. Same with 3 and 4. This would require single "taxi node" at which it would be checked if your primary cat is free, if yes - continue, if not, check if secondary cat is free, if yes, go there, if not wait which one becomes available first.

I agree. I would much rather see this. My concern though is the remark that 4 times the amount budgeted for this feature has been spent on it. some decision makers may not be keen to keep investing a lot more time into this feature if they're that much over budget. The temptation/need to just tweak what absolutely must be tweaked, and go no further might by significant. If it has already been planned for and is already sitting in the background just waiting to be tweaked and activated we might be OK, but if the development has been focused up until now to be hard-assigned cats from spawns and that was 4x budget, I doubt we'll see this change.  There's obviously a lot more complications involved in getting this to work than was first anticipated by anyone. 

This is conjecture of course, time will tell.

The other thought in the back of my mind is when I first started out, it seemed most people were flying off the carrier. FA18's and F14's were the most popular birds (at least in my circle). Since then, I've seen a significant number of wingmen go to the F16, F15E and F4 as their primary aircraft, and the carrier isn't used nearly as much as before, and wonder whether that could have a bearing on where ED focuses they're attention. (Because it would be understandable if the focus shifted towards more on development that would affect the majority of players and if the carrier is being used less, it may get less attention). 

[ShinyMikey]

I'd like more info on how this will work in MP. If the option to enable/disable the new deck crew is only in the special options menu, then what happens when some players using the carrier have if enabled and some have it disabled? I would like there to be a checkbox when I place the carrier in the mission editor, just like there is for enabling the airboss station. That way I could just put in two carriers; one with the new deck crew (for those who want the realism), and one without (for those who don't want the hassle and want to park wherever they want and use whichever cat they want). I think for MP having it as an option that can be turned on or off on each individual carrier would be a good way to do it.

[MicroShket]

Obviously, in MP everything will be subject to the server rules.

[Nealius]

On 11/19/2024 at 6:09 PM, draconus said:

They [directors] are aware of statics and will direct aircraft around them to get to a catapult. However, statics should never be placed along taxi leg routes or along catapult tracks.

That part in particular is problematic because it effectively means that statics can only be placed on spawn spots. 

[draconus]

6 hours ago, Nealius said:

That part in particular is problematic because it effectively means that statics can only be placed on spawn spots. 

Not really. If you want statics around the island make sure you also put them at the stern to not allow directors see available parking spots there or new spawns. That way there will be no taxi conflicts... theoretically.

[Tomcatter87]

26 minutes ago, draconus said:

Not really. If you want statics around the island make sure you also put them at the stern to not allow directors see available parking spots there or new spawns. That way there will be no taxi conflicts... theoretically.

That's quite a good idea, in fact. The updated Supercarrier manual also says on page 55: "If no such parking spots are available, the aircraft is moved to one of the parking spots on elevator №4." There is no taxi route provided for those, but maybe planes can reach elevator 4 too, without getting close to the island.