Beirut Posted January 12 Posted January 12 10 hours ago, JD said: Same problem we have with NTTR, there are few Red Flag campaigns and that's all. There is nothing else you can do on that map. You can do the same thing with the NTTR map that you can with all the maps; fly on it. It's up to each person to make his flights enjoyable. As stated, I use the NTTR to try out new modules and figure out weapons and systems. That round patch of salt flats just touching the north end of the runway at Groom Lake has seen megatons of destruction in my DCS world. It's my test bed. Now I know this isn't everyone's cup of tea, but that's why we have multiple planes and maps, something for everyone. I think the NTTR map is far more popular than thought and when NTTR 2.0 is announced on Thursday, there will be lots of happy people. Including me. 5 Some of the planes, but all of the maps!
Sunbather Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Am 10.1.2025 um 23:57 schrieb Beirut: Ol' Spudknockers's last survey (3600 responses) had the NTTR map as the third most owned. I'd be delighted to see it get a paint job. And I'd be delighted to pay for it. As I understand it, it was the 4th map to release for DCS and it released half a decade before the recent wave of new maps. So this survey might result in fallacy. Personally, I won't pay for a map that hasn't been updated for years (and looks the part) only so that I can pay for training campaigns for modules that only have half a tutorial. In my humble opinion, any old or new NTTR map should be included for free in the base game since it is literally a real-life training map. 1 F-16C || F/A-18C || A-10C || F-4E || Mig-21bis || M-2000C Syria -- Kola
MAXsenna Posted January 12 Posted January 12 As I understand it, it was the 4th map to release for DCS and it released half a decade before the recent wave of new maps. So this survey might result in fallacy. Personally, I won't pay for a map that hasn't been updated for years (and looks the part) only so that I can pay for training campaigns for modules that only have half a tutorial. In my humble opinion, any old or new NTTR map should be included for free in the base game since it is literally a real-life training map.NTTR 4th? Nope, it was the second map and the first DLC map for DCS. Even if I bought and paid for it, I wish it was free. EDIT: According to Steam, released in August 2017.Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk 1
Sunbather Posted January 12 Posted January 12 vor 2 Minuten schrieb MAXsenna: NTTR 4th? Nope, it was the second map and the first DLC map for DCS. Even if I bought and paid for it, I wish it was free. Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk Oh my, that makes the above mentioned 'survey' even less convincing. Of course, everybody and their grandma own the map if it is was the first new map after Caucasus. 2 F-16C || F/A-18C || A-10C || F-4E || Mig-21bis || M-2000C Syria -- Kola
MAXsenna Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Oh my, that makes the above mentioned 'survey' even less convincing. Of course, everybody and their grandma own the map if it is was the first new map after Caucasus.I assume that most users at the time got it. Not sure about the recent additions of players. I guess most will get Syria or one of the newer ones, unless one is into WWII. ED knows for sure though. Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
Weasel Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Iirc with the NTTR map ED introduced a new map technology and the map looked outstanding at the time it was released. I love this map, especially because of the Nellis AFB, Nevada and all the Red Flag stuff. I only wish it will be updated as it looks a little bit outdated. Maybe we will see a Nevada map 2.0 still this year. 2
Beirut Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sunbather said: As I understand it, it was the 4th map to release for DCS and it released half a decade before the recent wave of new maps. So this survey might result in fallacy. Just checked and I bought mine in Feb. 2018. One would think the player base has grown since the map came out and many excellent maps have been released and NTTR is still #3 in ownership, at least in that survey. Now, there can be excuses and reasons and provisions and "Yeah, but... !!!" until the cows come home. It was still #3 in ownership in that survey. I would imagine there will be no shortage of ink spilled to qualify why the map is terrible and useless and smells like an old fish left in your sock drawer, but a lot of people really like it, and after a survey of 3600 DCS flyers, it was #3 in ownership. There is often a surprising amount of support for it, though many, myself included, would like to see it get a new coat of paint. 1 hour ago, Sunbather said: Personally, I won't pay for a map that hasn't been updated for years (and looks the part) only so that I can pay for training campaigns for modules that only have half a tutorial. In my humble opinion, any old or new NTTR map should be included for free in the base game since it is literally a real-life training map. That's fine. I was happy to pay for it and I will be happy to pay for NTTR 2.0 when it is announced on Thursday. . Edited January 13 by Beirut 2 Some of the planes, but all of the maps!
Vee.A Posted January 13 Posted January 13 On 1/11/2025 at 4:24 PM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said: I really hope that's true: Normandy is the best looking map in DCS down low. There's something about the vegetation and colours that just *clicks* for me. To be fair, what ED has done with Iraq looks quite good. Ugra makes great stuff, though the Germany map might not be as detailed as Normandy given how small Normandy is compared to the others.
draconus Posted January 13 Posted January 13 8 hours ago, Sunbather said: any old or new NTTR map should be included for free in the base game since it is literally a real-life training map Yeah, and then they should make new Vietnam map for free because it was real life war territory, you know, as C in DCS ...not! I doubt there will ever be NTTR 2.0 but the most needed lighting fix is long overdue. 2 Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Quest 3 T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria
cfrag Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) 8 hours ago, MAXsenna said: it was the second map and the first DLC map for DCS Indeed. At that time, it made sense since The Hog was DCS's premier attraction, and it was rather well known that NTTR was where the hottest Hog action was taking place (in the form of training of course). It may also have been a nice way for ED to monetize work that ED did for their military customers that used the Hog sim, and quite likely also wanted/used the NTTR map. Edited January 13 by cfrag 4 1
Raven (Elysian Angel) Posted January 13 Posted January 13 5 hours ago, Vee.A said: To be fair, what ED has done with Iraq looks quite good. Ugra makes great stuff, though the Germany map might not be as detailed as Normandy given how small Normandy is compared to the others. Did you have a really close look down low in Iraq? I was talking about low-level from a helicopter: Iraq has a long way to go when it comes to low-level detail. Look at small villages for example: houses are just put down in the sand like Lego blocks without any cohesion or connecting roads. It’s quite immersion-breaking actually. Yes Iraq looks a lot better than Afghanistan in the sense that it doesn’t have those sudden sharp borders between various ground textures, and yes it’s EA but there is a long way to go. 4 Spoiler Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 | Asus ProArt RTX 4080 Super | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 960Pro 1TB NMVe | VR: Varjo Aero Pro Flight Trainer Puma | VIRPIL MT-50CM2 grip on VPForce Rhino with Z-curve extension | Virpil CM3 throttle | Virpil CP2 + 3 | FSSB R3L | VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip | Everything mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | TPR rudder pedals OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS graphics settings
diamond26 Posted January 13 Posted January 13 On the map discussion, I got NTTR initially with Mirage 2000 for the red flag campaign and never regreted it. I fly realistic missions with my multiplayer group over there utilising all the real procedures and the add on assets available (in terms of ranges - freely avaialble in ED's user base). At the end is how you want to use each map. Definitely NTTR needs some TLS and Nevada 2.0 will be more than welcomed but I prefer this over any empty Afganistan type map. As mentioned by others the bar has been set high by Ugra media and Syria and Normandy 2 (for me the best map vailable in DCS in terms of detail and quality) I also like South Atlantic but it still kills my system at low altitudes (below 900FT). Kola is coming close but still needs work 3 MAIN SYSTEM SPECS: MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI DDR4, Intel Corei7-12700K @ 5.0, 64Gb RAM Kingston KF3600C18D4/16GX, EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING 12GB, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, VKB Gunfighter MkIV Ultimate with 20cm extension, VKB T-Rudder MKIV, Quest Pro Laptop SPECS: Alienware X16 R2, Intel Core Ultra 9 185H, RTX 4090 mobile 16GB, 32GB LPDDR5X, 2TB Micron NVMe SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11
Beirut Posted January 13 Posted January 13 4 hours ago, draconus said: I doubt there will ever be NTTR 2.0 but the most needed lighting fix is long overdue. We'll know on Thursday. Unless of course they announce something silly like an F-111 or an AH-1 instead. 2 Some of the planes, but all of the maps!
Bedouin Posted January 13 Posted January 13 13 hours ago, MAXsenna said: NTTR 4th? Nope, it was the second map and the first DLC map for DCS. Even if I bought and paid for it, I wish it was free. EDIT: According to Steam, released in August 2017. Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk Hmm i got it for free in 2016 because i bought it before release as a bundle with the A-10C, so guess it was released in 2016 1
MAXsenna Posted January 13 Posted January 13 Hmm i got it for free in 2016 because i bought it before release as a bundle with the A-10C, so guess it was released in 2016 You could be right. I thought it was 2016 myself, and was a little surprised when I saw the date on Steam. Maybe it was released on Steam later? Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
draconus Posted January 13 Posted January 13 In November 2015, DCS World 2.0 was released as an open alpha while 1.5 continued to be supported as a stable release. 2.0 added support for more detailed terrain including the Nevada Test and Training Range map. 3 Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Quest 3 T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria
Sunbather Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) vor 18 Stunden schrieb Beirut: Just checked and I bought mine in Feb. 2018. One would think the player base has grown since the map came out and many excellent maps have been released and NTTR is still #3 in ownership, at least in that survey. Now, there can be excuses and reasons and provisions and "Yeah, but... !!!" until the cows come home. It was still #3 in ownership in that survey. I don't even want to argue about the merit of a NTTR map or if it should be free or not, I actually don't care. (Well, no. I do care. Because I do think that training with your 70$ aircraft module shouldn't be blocked behind a double paywall: terrain and campaign.) And still: if I - at one point - really want the map, I am going to buy it just like everybody else. But to make things a bit more rational about the finding of surveys in these dark and trying times, I still want to add some points: - third most owned map doesn't mean most used map (as someone else pointed out here) which would be the actual question of importance - there were barely or even no other new maps, so people bought it because it finally was a new map to buy! I would have bought it, too. Probably. - simple chronological reasons: something that released earlier is naturally owned by more owners than something that released only half a year ago and which is still in Early Access. In 1947, militaries all around the world owned more propeller driven aircraft than jet aircraft. Would you draw the conclusion that propeller aircraft were the future? (Very bad and pretty wonky example but it's been a long day at work : / ) - first DLCs always get bought more often than later DLCs for the same game. However, this might not applicable here because DCS is a simulator which is alive for many years now and gets a constant influx of new players. Edited January 13 by Sunbather 1 F-16C || F/A-18C || A-10C || F-4E || Mig-21bis || M-2000C Syria -- Kola
YoYo Posted January 13 Posted January 13 Where did the idea for NTTR 2.0 come from? I haven't seen anything like that mentioned anywhere on ED's side. Maybe I missed something, or it's just wishful thinking ? 1 Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 5090 32Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro
DD_fruitbat Posted January 13 Posted January 13 1 hour ago, YoYo said: Where did the idea for NTTR 2.0 come from? I haven't seen anything like that mentioned anywhere on ED's side. Maybe I missed something, or it's just wishful thinking ? God knows? Personally think it would be a complete waste of effort, but each to there own. 1
Beirut Posted January 13 Posted January 13 2 hours ago, YoYo said: Where did the idea for NTTR 2.0 come from? Me. I should be ashamed at how happy I am about it, but I'm not. 2 Some of the planes, but all of the maps!
YoYo Posted January 13 Posted January 13 24 minutes ago, DD_fruitbat said: God knows? Personally think it would be a complete waste of effort, but each to there own. I use this map often, whenever I learn something (from US aircraft) it's there. The other maps are already "theaters of operations". I have nothing against Nevada 2.0v. 4 Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 5090 32Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro
MAXsenna Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) 2 hours ago, YoYo said: or it's just wishful thinking ? Spot on my friend. Let's just blame it on @Beirut, he's down for it anyway. 23 minutes ago, Beirut said: Me. I should be ashamed at how happy I am about it, but I'm not. Is shame actually part of your vocabulary? Didn't think so... Edited January 13 by MAXsenna spelling and grammar 2
Beirut Posted January 13 Posted January 13 15 minutes ago, MAXsenna said: Spot on my friend. Let's just blame it on @Beirut, he's down for it anyway. Is shame actually part of your vocabulary? Didn't think so... I'm never ashamed on a Monday. 1 Some of the planes, but all of the maps!
DD_fruitbat Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) 25 minutes ago, YoYo said: I use this map often, whenever I learn something (from US aircraft) it's there. The other maps are already "theaters of operations". I have nothing against Nevada 2.0v. As I said, each to their own. I haven't flown on it for years, probably since Syria came out, and even if it had an update wouldn't go back to it with the maps we have available now. Edited January 13 by DD_fruitbat
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