Lunar Sale | Su-25A Announced | MiG-29 Pilot Helmet

[Whirley]

Have the Su-25a, would pay again for full fidelity one.

[Bummer]

How is it possible that a free Su-25A upgrate (remastered) looks a thousand times better than a $9,99 F-5E remastered ??

Edited February 6 by Bummer

[Gunnar81]

42 minutes ago, Bummer said:

How is it possible that a free Su-25A upgrate (remasterd) looks a thousand times better than a $9,99 F-5E remasterd ??

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

[Robo76]

I don't really understand ED's decisions lately on the F-35, MiG-29A, Su-25 A. I expect there will be more of these odd decisions as time goes on. I get the feeling from them that these are the decisions of some crisis manager who has no viable vision. Just trial and error. If ED wants to focus (finally) on online multiplayer (since existing players have pretty much everything already purchased), the decision to make the Su-25 free doesn't make sense for new MP players. Logically, it should be the A-1O A to be a free attack aircraft for both sides of MP, if the new player hasn't decided which side suits him. For MP, the Su-25 A only makes sense in 60 scenarios, and new young players aren't looking for those. On the more modern 80-90 scenarios, the existing Su-25 T is clearly the better choice, as the Shkval allows it to attack from a safer distance and the Fantasmagoria easily detects SAMs and EWRs. Yes, it's harder to maneuver, but only when loaded to the max, which can be said of all modules. For new players, the Su-25 A makes a lot less sense in MP than the current Su-25 T. It seems to me that ED doesn't know much about MP play in DCS yet, and what is needed for 2 teams to compete in DCS. If there continues to be a lack of machines on the red side for MP to match the blue ones from the 80-90's, DCS MP player numbers will not grow. The red side's players won't increase due to the lack of competitive machines, and the blue team won't have anyone to play against, so it will consequently demotivate them. I see this trend currently on online MP , and the latest ED news announcement will only exacerbate this situation. The announced FF MiG-29A will not improve this situation, as performance wise it will still be the same machine as the current FC3. Again, the differences in capabilities between the blue and red sides will not be reduced, but instead will be magnified over time by the F-35. ED may promise themselves better sales, but it will only hurt the mission and balance of the MP sides. Maybe the F-35 will make money for ED, but it will be useless to blue players who want to fly MP missions with them because not many red players will want to fly against them. ED is gradually backing itself into a corner over the long term with these "well thought out" steps until eventually it will have neither a large paying MP community nor the revenue to cover development and operating costs. And that will eventually please no one at all.

 

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Robo76 said:

I don't really understand ED's decisions lately on the F-35, MiG-29A, Su-25 A.

Clearly, you don't. ED is in the business 30 years and growing, so I believe they know something you don't and they know what they do. Balance is in the hands of mission creator - not in the DCS aircraft availability - otherwise it'd be much worse in the past years where we had much less to choose from.

[bies]

With all respect, but what are you even talking about? Everthing you've said is basically the other way around.

10 hours ago, Robo76 said:

the Su-25 A only makes sense in 60 scenarios, and new young players aren't looking for those.

Su-25(A) entered service in 1981...  And produced in 1300 airframes.

 

10 hours ago, Robo76 said:

On the more modern 80-90 scenarios, the existing Su-25 T is clearly the better choice

Su-25T was produced in just 8 (!) airframes, less then any MP server has, tested unsuccessfully during 1990s, rejected by the military as it had abysmal flight performance and its weapon system didnt work as intended and it was cancelled. It's a paper plane...

 

10 hours ago, Robo76 said:

Logically, it should be the A-1OA to be a free attack aircraft for both sides of MP, if the new player hasn't decided which side suits him.

A-10A was used pracrically only by the U.S., always by one side of the war - when Su-25 by some 12 countries in some dozen of wars. And in four wars from 1988 to today, Su-25 was used by both sides, Russian and Georgia, Azerbejian and Armenia, Russia and Ukraine.

 

10 hours ago, Robo76 said:

The announced FF MiG-29A will not improve this situation

Original MiG-29 9.12 fits perfectly as DCS has plenty of 1980s modules from the era ready and coming along with MiG-29 9.12; like Mi-24P, Su-17M, MiG-21bis, MiG-23, Mi-8, Su-25, L-39, F-4E, A-6E, A-7E, F-14A/B, Mirage F.1C, IAI Kfir, Tornado IDS, C-101, MB-339, Bo-105, Huey, Gazelle L.   Plus all AI air / ground / sea assets from the era.   Plus 2 great maps Iraq for Desert Storm '91 and Fulda Gap for 1980s Cold War.   That's MP with proper enviroment and both sides modeled.

There will never be Blue vs Red MP past the USSR collapse timeframe as only NATO allow to their machines to be modeled.  MP in DCS is WW2, Cold War and some NATO vs NATO 2000s.

Edited February 2 by bies

[Weta43]

It’s a bit of a blast from the past - the Su-25A was the only free aircraft initially the very first downloadable demo of Flaming Cliffs when E.D. First split away from Ubisoft. 1 aircraft, 1 mission. 

I don’t quite understand the complaining by FC3 owners about the plane becoming free - they lose nothing and get a free upgrade to boot. A little bit of fear of missing out ?

My principal issue is my uncertainty about whether making the “A” a free module ends the possibility of a FF version, or brings it closer. 

[LorenLuke]

15 hours ago, Pipe said:

Do you mean actual FF or F-35 FF?

I mean clicky cockpit with systems. And while I am just as willing as the next guy to fart on ED's F-35 modeling methodology, I also believe that anything that is not quite an ideal simulation, but can or does move us towards a higher fidelity of simulation and away from any arcade-y elements that we have currently, right this moment (Combined Arms looking at you), is ultimately a win as delivering that kind of product means we end up closer to that simulation fidelity that we all want.

[shagrat]

Am 31.1.2025 um 18:12 schrieb Robo76:

It doesn't seem fair to me that some people bought the Su-25A module and now others will have it for free. Will you refund the money to the current owners or give them the choice of another FC3 module for free ?

Actually, you get the complete redone model, with upgraded texture and details for free, like anybody else...

You own the old Su-25 FC2/3 that already got the Flight Model upgraded for free.

By this logic, I should get my original LockOn Modern Air Combat CD from 2003 partially refunded, as I paid good money for it, back in the days.

Or I can just be happy they still care and update the stuff, for us and give us ALL the updated model and textures for free, instead of a paid upgrade.

[MAXsenna]

2 minutes ago, shagrat said:

Or I can just be happy they still care and update the stuff, for us and give us ALL the updated model and textures for free, instead of a paid upgrade

This is the way! 

[karapus78]

On 2/2/2025 at 12:14 AM, bies said:

There will never be Blue vs Red MP past the USSR collapse timeframe as only NATO allow to their machines to be modeled. MP in DCS is WW2, Cold War and some NATO vs NATO 2000s.

Oh, really? )))) Remind me again please, who and where authorized the sharing of the F-35A? 
Indeed man is an inert creature and takes a very long time to change his beliefs. 
The game says in the fine print at the bottom, for those with eyes.... 
"This software is intended for entertainment purposes only."

[bies]

17 minutes ago, karapus78 said:

Oh, really? )))) Remind me again please, who and where authorized the sharing of the F-35A? 

No one authorized most of the modules we have in DCS. Only a few are producer-licensed, many companies don't even exist anymore for decades. F-35 is just created by the most open country, produced by very open Lockheed company, export oriented, built by +1100 airframes, presented widely and publically all around the world including avionics, workflows, sensor integration, HOTAS functions, cockpit etc.

Chinese/Russian somewhat modern aircraft will never meet any of that. It would be either 100% made up fiction, having nothing to do with the real one, with fictional avionics, MFD pages, fictional weapon systems and HOTAS, made up sensors - or just absent. It's a different culture.

When Soviet era Su-25 will be awesome. Full fidelity even more. Just like MiG-29 9.12, Su-17M, MiG-23MLA etc.

Edited February 4 by bies

[Alireza.kh]

great work on Su-25A ED, this was the upgrade that i was waiting for. i wish you do the same job for T model since its very old and not much extra work to do. and hopefully PFM of these in future.

[jojyrocks]

Can't they do this special Su-25 upgrade  formula for the rest of FC3 planes? like the Su-27, 33 all are missing those vapour animations except the Mig 29 which makes it all the more strange. I mean, we aren't getting the full fidelity of those and at the very least please just update those eyesore Mig 23, Mig 25, Mirage 2000-5 and Su-30 Ai 3D model planes. It is more than a decade now, those planes look like they belong in era when Windows XP was launched and it is 2025!

 

 

[bies]

53 minutes ago, jojyrocks said:

Can't they do this special Su-25 upgrade  formula for the rest of FC3 planes?

It looks like they want to do even better - make them full fidelity. What so many guys proposed through the years. MiG-29 goes FF, F-15C goes FF, Su-25 free rework may bring a FF later on.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, jojyrocks said:

Mirage 2000-5

We have this one in DCS?

Anyway, ED is slowly progressing on the AI upgrades like they've already done with S-3B, B-52H, B-1B. All old models are planned to be reworked.

[jojyrocks]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

We have this one in DCS?

Anyway, ED is slowly progressing on the AI upgrades like they've already done with S-3B, B-52H, B-1B. All old models are planned to be reworked.

 

Oh yes! Mirage 2000-5 AI model is there, Mig 27K, Su-22, Mig 25 series etc etc. Certainly will not look good with our present graphics models. It would look out of place and awkward. I guess we'll just have to wait several more years to get even at least one or two updated, hopefully...

1 hour ago, bies said:

It looks like they want to do even better - make them full fidelity. What so many guys proposed through the years. MiG-29 goes FF, F-15C goes FF, Su-25 free rework may bring a FF later on.

 

 

Yes there certainly is potential, just gotta wait even more years to maybe get those Russian jets that are already de-classified like Su-25, Mig 23, Su-22 and Mig 27.

 

I guess since we'll never see an FF Su-27 and especially the niche Su-33 getting FF, but at least add some vapour animations like the other modules got and the special FC3 Mig 29.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 2/4/2025 at 7:17 AM, karapus78 said:

Oh, really? )))) Remind me again please, who and where authorized the sharing of the F-35A? 
Indeed man is an inert creature and takes a very long time to change his beliefs. 
The game says in the fine print at the bottom, for those with eyes.... 
"This software is intended for entertainment purposes only."

You can try and find 'gotchas' all you like, but it won't change the reality of DCS development.

16 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

 

 

 

I guess since we'll never see an FF Su-27 and especially the niche Su-33 getting FF, but at least add some vapour animations like the other modules got and the special FC3 Mig 29.

Actually, I think it was 9L indicated that they'd be doing a FF Su-27 if it weren't for the fact that the team that would do it is busy working on the MiG-29. @NineLine Please feel free to correct me.

[karapus78]

On 2/4/2025 at 4:35 PM, bies said:

No one authorized most of the modules we have in DCS. Only a few are producer-licensed, many companies don't even exist anymore for decades. F-35 is just created by the most open country, produced by very open Lockheed company, export oriented, built by +1100 airframes, presented widely and publically all around the world including avionics, workflows, sensor integration, HOTAS functions, cockpit etc.

And can you not write not by advertising, but provide a link to open sources on technical literature, which will allow to familiarize with the necessary information for modeling? 
“The most open country” - don't be ridiculous, it was like that in the 19th century. But without delving into politics, as far as the game is concerned, everything that is modeled in DCS is entertaining. And even long before the F-35 was announced, there were, are, and will be game assumptions here. Simply put, as the module developers decide, they will implement (weapons, systems, operation of these systems, etc.). 
You don't need to write about reliable modeling of the module and its systems in the game. No matter how good it is. 
There is a game, and there is an aviation simulator. I hope you understand the difference.

This is all to say that there would be a desire, and to model the same Su-24, Su-30, Mig-23, Mig-25 and other machines will be no less difficult and troublesome.

16 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

You can try and find 'gotchas' all you like, but it won't change the reality of DCS development.

 

I'm not looking for any pitfalls. Everything was very clear to me from the beginning. 
I'm just amazed by people's belief in the “reliability” of data when dividing modules and their systems. Perhaps in some cases everything was exactly the same as in the case of the L-39, but this is just a case, not an axiom. 
If there are documents allowing to model a module according to technical documentation from open sources, they do it, and if not, they easily model “from their heads”. 
That's all. So I don't understand what you are writing to me about.

[Robo76]

On 2/1/2025 at 10:14 PM, bies said:

With all respect, but what are you even talking about? Everthing you've said is basically the other way around.

Su-25(A) entered service in 1981...  And produced in 1300 airframes.

- Even if 100,000 of them are produced, the new young players ED wants to lure are not interested in the old machines.

 

Su-25T was produced in just 8 (!) airframes, less then any MP server has, tested unsuccessfully during 1990s, rejected by the military as it had abysmal flight performance and its weapon system didnt work as intended and it was cancelled. It's a paper plane...

- It doesn't matter how many units were produced, the Su-25 T is included in DCS and has more combat value to the player if they learn to fly it than the Su-25 A which is easier to fly but its weapons systems are inferior.

 

A-10A was used pracrically only by the U.S., always by one side of the war - when Su-25 by some 12 countries in some dozen of wars. And in four wars from 1988 to today, Su-25 was used by both sides, Russian and Georgia, Azerbejian and Armenia, Russia and Ukraine.

- From a game and player perspective, it doesn't matter how many states a module has been used in. No one is trying to replicate real battlefields 1:1. When the F-35A arrives, the only option on MP servers will be to fly the same modules on both sides, because you can't balance red vs blue anymore. There are already MP servers like this, but not many players are on them because they don't enjoy not knowing if they're shooting at the vlat or the "enemy". Or they don't like being shot by their own teammates.

Original MiG-29 9.12 fits perfectly as DCS has plenty of 1980s modules from the era ready and coming along with MiG-29 9.12; like Mi-24P, Su-17M, MiG-21bis, MiG-23, Mi-8, Su-25, L-39, F-4E, A-6E, A-7E, F-14A/B, Mirage F.1C, IAI Kfir, Tornado IDS, C-101, MB-339, Bo-105, Huey, Gazelle L.   Plus all AI air / ground / sea assets from the era.   Plus 2 great maps Iraq for Desert Storm '91 and Fulda Gap for 1980s Cold War.   That's MP with proper enviroment and both sides modeled.

- The FF MiG-29A will be the same in capability as the DCS is now, so nothing new or more modern for the red side's MP machines. If MiG-29 SMT, MiG-31, Su-27 SM, Su-30, Su-35, Mi-28, Ka-52 were added, it would be a different story. 

 

There will never be Blue vs Red MP past the USSR collapse timeframe as only NATO allow to their machines to be modeled.  MP in DCS is WW2, Cold War and some NATO vs NATO 2000s.

- And that's why the MP of the 90s and beyond will be an increasingly pointless battle of blue machines against blue machines. How many people are going to enjoy that ?

 

[Schmidtfire]

I love DCS multiplayer, but lets be honest. DCS World had never been a multiplayer centric game/sim. Recently there has been some steps made, like the implementation of dedicated servers, VOIP and dynamic spawns. But majority of servers are kept running on pure enthusiasm and bubblegum solutions. Bloated with all sorts of scripts and netcode/desync issues.

Multiplayer will continue to improve, but it's obviously not ED's main focus when it comes to development. Asking for modules to specifically cater multiplayer is a tall order.

Edited February 5 by Schmidtfire

[JohnRedcorn]

On 2/5/2025 at 12:30 AM, jojyrocks said:

 

Oh yes! Mirage 2000-5 AI model is there, Mig 27K, Su-22, Mig 25 series etc etc. Certainly will not look good with our present graphics models. It would look out of place and awkward. I guess we'll just have to wait several more years to get even at least one or two updated, hopefully...

 

 

Yes there certainly is potential, just gotta wait even more years to maybe get those Russian jets that are already de-classified like Su-25, Mig 23, Su-22 and Mig 27.

 

I guess since we'll never see an FF Su-27 and especially the niche Su-33 getting FF, but at least add some vapour animations like the other modules got and the special FC3 Mig 29.

Well, if you want new and good looking ground / naval / air AI units, then you should install the following mod:

There is a link to a site on the forum page I have posted. The guy who created this mod is a real king. You can watch the trailer on his site. It is also possible to download assets per country. So if you are interest in a certain country only, you can save space on your drive. This mod transforming DCS into a real modern battlefield. Not cold war era like it is now but a real modern one.

Now if you need some modern planes to fly in this modern environment then there is a couple of other mods you can use:

Need to enter his discord to download the latest version or you can just search the intenet for download link.

This mod contains Su-30MK/MKi/SM versions of aircraft.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3325489/ - F22A MOD.

F-22A mod. Link to a site (download link) is on the page.

F-35 mod. See the links on page 11 to download or use the official discord link which can be found in this post as well.

 

Looks like all of the above mods are still supported by their authors and still work in a current version of DCS world. Anyway, it worth trying to install and check if you want to play a modern variant of DCS world.

Edited February 7 by JohnRedcorn

[MAXsenna]

On 2/5/2025 at 3:48 PM, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Actually, I think it was 9L indicated that they'd be doing a FF Su-27 if it weren't for the fact that the team that would do it is busy working on the MiG-29.

At least that it was doable, and the MiG-29 team is currently busy. 

With the reveal of the upgrade to the Su-25A. I wonder if there are actually two redfor teams now. Could it be that if the MiG-29 sells well, the Su-25A team is planned to continue on an FF version, which seems logical, and the MiG-29 team will go on staring on an Su-27? Wouldn't surprise me at all. 

[SOLIDKREATE]

Will the new Su-25 come with a Texture Template? I know the one from LockOn still works from what I have read. I just want to dedicate time to that one if a new one is coming. @BIGNEWY

[BIGNEWY]

4 hours ago, SOLIDKREATE said:

Will the new Su-25 come with a Texture Template? I know the one from LockOn still works from what I have read. I just want to dedicate time to that one if a new one is coming. @BIGNEWY

I am pretty sure it will, if not I will push for it.