Mission State Save

[Mistermann]

1 hour ago, waterman said:

1.  ED should provide some of their short demo missions they tested saved and were happy when restarted.

This is a very good, very reasonable suggestion.  Understanding the intent and documenting use cases for the community would go a long way. 

1 hour ago, waterman said:

2. What quality control testing was done ?

I know ... rhetorical question.  We all know the answer here.  Happy path tested a day an hour before the release.

1 hour ago, waterman said:

3. Maybe we need to lower expectations and just except that they are not capable anymore.

At this point, its our only real choice.  I am just tired of getting gaslighted by the mouthpieces about how much better quality is.  Or shut down because the opinion is counter to their messaging.  

1 hour ago, waterman said:

4. Now you shovel this alpha tested mess out.

"This is not the mess you're looking for ..." -Ben Kenobi

[scommander2]

Hi @cfrag, thanks for info  

[Minsky]

3 hours ago, cfrag said:

Units that were destroyed are removed from the mission, there is (sadly) no debris left in the places where a unit was killed. A bit disappointing, but OK.

It is definitely not OK to me, and I sincerely hope this decision is temporary.

Not only does this kill the sense of progress, but destroyed units often serve as landmarks around which subsequent attacks, or even entire missions, are planned.

I get it that too much debris can lead to degraded performance. (Although, given that the Save feature is currently useless for large-scale or prolonged missions, this should not be our immediate concern.) A basic garbage collector could be run at save, to cull debris older than X hours and/or units that were destroyed X saves prior to this one, once their quantity exceed a certain threshold.

Needless to say that the Dynamic Campaign must support debris persistence from a get go.

[buceador]

3 hours ago, waterman said:

6. Do your self a favour release an update with the new save option removed.

This would seem to be the best solution.

[BIGNEWY]

threads merged. 

please keep all the feedback here for now. 

We are reading the comments and taking notes. Please if you are giving feedback keep it constructive, if you can not please do not post. 

thank you 

[zerO_crash]

This is truly amazing! Finally! Great job ED and all staff!

[BIGNEWY]

Regarding the absolute time less which is currently in seconds, the team will look at changing this. 

[Dangerzone]

Just wondering if anyone can tell me what are the differences/benefits between using this vs DSMC or other existing save scripts such as Ciribobs save scripts?

Is this designed to be an official implementation of existing 3rd party functionality (like the VOIP system seemed to be for SRS - another way of achieving the same thing but simpler for general users and official?), or does it bring something new and not seen before?

Edited March 23 by Dangerzone

[Galwran]

14 hours ago, Minsky said:

It is definitely not OK to me, and I sincerely hope this decision is temporary.

Not only does this kill the sense of progress, but destroyed units often serve as landmarks around which subsequent attacks, or even entire missions, are planned.

I get it that too much debris can lead to degraded performance. (Although, given that the Save feature is currently useless for large-scale or prolonged missions, this should not be our immediate concern.) A basic garbage collector could be run at save, to cull debris older than X hours and/or units that were destroyed X saves prior to this one, once their quantity exceed a certain threshold.

Needless to say that the Dynamic Campaign must support debris persistence from a get go.

I agree. Luckily at least for ”important target units” such as SAM sites this can be fixed pretty easily with scripting. My interim solution is on page 1 or 2 of this same thread.

[gulredrel]

Hello,

appreciate the mission save option. Thanks for adding this to the game.

I almost exclusively use self created mission from ME.

Is there a new forum section regarding the mission save feature (incl. possible bug section)?! I guess this would be nice to have. 

Looks like "takeoff from ground" for inactive group of helicopters is not saved correctly. After saving the mission (regardless of in game or from the debriefing screen) the units now have been transfered to a helibase with "takeoff from ramp" command.
Please find original mission, and both saved missions attached.

Thanks

F-4E_Paphos_Training_Nikosia Airport_target_airstart_save_debrief.miz F-4E_Paphos_Training_Nikosia Airport_target_airstart_save.miz F-4E_Paphos_Training_Nikosia Airport_target_airstart.miz 20250323_F-4_save_test_destroyed_objects.trk

Edited March 23 by gulredrel
added image

[FupDuck]

Thanks for releasing this so we could test it. I've done some testing myself, and found many of the same things as cfrag in his post on page 2.

 

Since you are asking for feedback, my biggest ask would be the ability to save paid campaign missions. And I guess the ability to save a bit more info, like aircraft settings, munitions states, and special waypoint actions. Because without that stuff, not enough of the campaign info will get saved to make the save accurate enough to continue.

 

Thanks and good luck with future development on this!

[BIGNEWY]

6 minutes ago, FupDuck said:

Since you are asking for feedback, my biggest ask would be the ability to save paid campaign missions. And I guess the ability to save a bit more info, like aircraft settings, munitions states, and special waypoint actions. Because without that stuff, not enough of the campaign info will get saved to make the save accurate enough to continue.

Paid campaigns would require a slightly different approach, obviously the campaign creator would have to design the campaign with the save state in mind, or add check point saves like the Rising squall campaign has. Many campaigns are story driven so there are lots of things to be considered. 

 

Keep the feedback coming everyone we are taking notes and what we have seen so far is helpful. 

 

[GWdope]

Things that I believe as a mission creator should or must be included in the save state to utilize this feature to its full potential:

Scenery/Map object destruction state (map objects cannot be used as targets otherwise.)

Dead unit carcasses/creators (allows continuity of environment)  

Flag state (perhaps an option to make a flags state savable or not? without this many randomization functions cannot be persistent)

Save inhibit/allow mechanism (a way to create a "Checkpoint" in a mission where saving is allowed or automatic, this would allow mission makers to have more control and avoid issues.)

Automatic save file naming and location with link to original mission (this is a QoL feature that will make things easier for the end user. Perhaps a way to link an auto generated save file to the original mission so if a user starts the original mission they can chose the saved file or to start over. Basically how saving works in all video games.)

 

  

[draconus]

19 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Paid campaigns would require a slightly different approach, obviously the campaign creator would have to design the campaign with the save state in mind, or add check point saves like the Rising squall campaign has.

The whole save game should have a different approach from the start. Don't create new mission. Just save enough data in a new file that linked with original mission runs it again with the saved changes. That way campaign's protected files don't have to be changed or copied. Same with added mission content like sounds, pictures or liveries - they all stay with the original mission file. Adding checkpoints is not an answer because it already works and it's not a save game. Saving as a new mission could be an option, not main feature.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I understand it's WIP and very basic at the moment to the point it's not very useful at this stage and could mislead some (who don't read the forums) to think it will save what they think it will save. Just another example, I tried a quick simple test mission - Triggered states weren't saved. Last player plane position was saved but not its altitude or cockpit setup. 

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, waterman said:

After the Hot Fix Update - 

Absolute Time More  and Absolute Time Less are Great now.

Input is in   Hours : Minutes : Seconds and it auto converts to total seconds.

Nice one thanks .

Good to hear thanks for the feedback

[cfrag]

18 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Good to hear thanks for the feedback

Thanks for the hotfix @BIGNEWY, I believe that this can help a lot. I think that there's a small glitch in the interface: when there are ABSOLUTE TIME conditions in a mission, and the mission creator changes the mission's start time, it seems that these conditions are automatically updated - but at least their name's aren't (you need to click on each and every condition to have it updated). I'm not sure if this is required before save; I *may* have seen some not-updated ABSOLUTE TIME conditions after saving and reloading that lost their update, but I'm not sure.

In any event, if the ABSOLUTE TIME conditions all update immediately including title, I think that that removes all doubt.  

Edited March 26 by cfrag

[BIGNEWY]

48 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Thanks for the hotfix @BIGNEWY, I believe that this can help a lot. I think that there's a small glitch in the interface: when there are ABSOLUTE TIME conditions in a mission, and the mission creator changes the mission's start time, it seems that these conditions are automatically updated - but at least their name's aren't (you need to click on each and every condition to have it updated). I'm not sure if this is required before save; I *may* have seen some not-updated ABSOLUTE TIME conditions after saving and reloading that lost their update, but I'm not sure.

In any event, if the ABSOLUTE TIME conditions all update immediately including title, I think that that removes all doubt.  

For clarity can you show an example of this, not entirely sure it is a glitch.

[cfrag]

49 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

For clarity can you show an example of this, not entirely sure it is a glitch.

Original Condition, mission starts at 0800 on June 

Condition uses multiple conditions at same time just for clarity 

This is the condition, to start at time(0),converted to 08:00 

Changed mission start time to 09:00

Looking at the conditions: NO CHANGE

Clicking on the first condition: updates to 0900 (32400), while the others remain unchanged to now one hour before mission starts. That seems wrong to me.

 

Ignore the images that follow, for some reasons the are just there .

Edited March 26 by cfrag

[BIGNEWY]

32 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Original Condition, mission starts at 0800 on June 

Condition uses multiple conditions at same time just for clarity 

This is the condition, to start at time(0),converted to 08:00 

Changed mission start time to 09:00

Looking at the conditions: NO CHANGE

Clicking on the first condition: updates to 0900 (32400), while the others remain unchanged to now one hour before mission starts. That seems wrong to me.

 

Ignore the images that follow, for some reasons the are just there .

Thank you, 

I've spoken to the team, maybe there is some misunderstanding of how it works but it is working as intended, starting point of absolute time is 00 h 00 min of the mission start date, not the mission start time. 

thank you 

[cfrag]

10 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I've spoken to the team, maybe there is some misunderstanding of how it works but it is working as intended, starting point of absolute time is 00 h 00 min of the mission start date, not the mission start time. 

Understood. What is the intended functionality if you set the starting point at 08:00:10 (ten seconds after mission start at 08:00:00) and then advance the mission start date by 1 hour? ME does do something to the conditions, and what it does seems not consistent.

Phrased differently: what is the intended functionality given:

• you set an absolute time condition that happens to be 10 seconds after mission start time
• you then move mission start time forward by one hour (e.g. from 0800 to 0900)
• Are absolute time trigger conditions updated, and if yes, when and how?

I assume that there is some intended functionality to auto-update ABSOLUTE TIME conditions, else they are just marginally less useless than the pure absolute time we have now. Mission designers need their conditions to trigger relative to mission start time. I believe everyone agrees that no automatic management of ABSOLUTE TIME condition with respect to changing mission start time wouldn't be helpful at all. I believe it's obvious that mission designers need some QoL management with their trigger time condition, hence the somewhat quirky, non-standard way that ME behaves now when you click on an ABSOLUTE TIME condition now after a change in mission start time, and it auto-updates that (and only that) time by the amount of time that the mission start time was moved. The idea looks good, the execution looks flawed.

Edited March 26 by cfrag

[evanf117]

(Bug) helicopters set to uncontrolled or client and set to take off from ground cold or hot change location once a mission is saved to the nearest airport parking. making alot of missions unplayable after save

(missing feature) destroyed vehicle's are removed when saving mission. they should be replaced with a static set to the dead state, other wise missions feel empty once units are killed and then the mission is saved and re-loaded

save test Track.trk
Save Test.mizSave Test out.miz

[BIGNEWY]

On 3/21/2025 at 11:48 AM, GameOver said:

That’s great news that we now have a save and load option in DCS—well done! However, like many other users, I’m really looking forward to a fully functional Save and Load system.

Ideally, this would work like a traditional save feature: I fly a mission where I need to destroy multiple targets. I destroy one, but I need to stop playing, so I save the game, turn off my PC, and later, when I return to DCS, I simply go to a Load Game option, select my saved mission, and continue exactly from where I left off.

This should work for any mission or campaign in DCS, not just specific scenarios. There should also be a dedicated Load Game tab or icon on the main screen for easy access.

Additionally, we should be able to create multiple saves, such as:

• One save for my F/A-18C mission in Arctic Thunder
• Another for my F/A-18C in Flaming Sunrise
• A third for my AH-64D Outpost mission
• A fourth for my F-16C in Last Out, etc.

That way, we can easily return to any saved mission whenever we want.

I know others have likely shared similar thoughts, but I hope this feedback helps ED in developing a great Save and Load feature for DCS!

Thank you for your feedback GameOver, we are looking at the comments here in the thread and will make a plan going forward, hopefully we can tweak it some more, however it may not be possible to have a full save of everything, in DCS there are simply to many moving parts, and it may not be achievable.  

[BIGNEWY]

On 3/21/2025 at 7:15 PM, cb1968 said:

After a cold start of the F4, I saved the game after I had started taxiing. Reloading the save file reset the mission to the beginning of the cold start. Is this expected?

Yes expected, after take off it would save you in the air. 

thank you 

[BIGNEWY]

On 3/23/2025 at 12:31 PM, gulredrel said:

Hello,

appreciate the mission save option. Thanks for adding this to the game.

I almost exclusively use self created mission from ME.

Is there a new forum section regarding the mission save feature (incl. possible bug section)?! I guess this would be nice to have. 

Looks like "takeoff from ground" for inactive group of helicopters is not saved correctly. After saving the mission (regardless of in game or from the debriefing screen) the units now have been transfered to a helibase with "takeoff from ramp" command.
Please find original mission, and both saved missions attached.

Thanks

F-4E_Paphos_Training_Nikosia Airport_target_airstart_save_debrief.miz 28.11 kB · 6 downloads F-4E_Paphos_Training_Nikosia Airport_target_airstart_save.miz 28.12 kB · 5 downloads F-4E_Paphos_Training_Nikosia Airport_target_airstart.miz 29.82 kB · 5 downloads 20250323_F-4_save_test_destroyed_objects.trk 1.06 MB · 5 downloads

Thank you for the good info, a report has been made for the team to investigate