Please Address Game Bloat from CoreMods & Excessive Liveries

[Draken35]

What you call "bloatware" is not. It is not unnecessary (for me, an other who had posted here at the very least) and therefore it does not match the definition of bloatware.
At best, or worst, depending on the point of view, it should be optional content.

[niru27]

4 minutes ago, Draken35 said:

...it should be optional content.

Precisely 

[celestHawk]

11 minutes ago, niru27 said:

Please refer to the thread title before sharing your opinion on "what is worth it" (for you)...

What I meant was that I could get rid of more stuff but didn't spend more time to do it - making my point for the thread topic I guess.

[Draken35]

10 minutes ago, niru27 said:

Precisely 

My only objection to this thread is calling this content "bloatware". Poor choice of words.. 
Now, as for making the handful of GBs of content optional (10-15Gb if I read the OP correctly)... Is it really worth the dev time and gained complexity for such a small gain? Because, I can see the complains already for the additional bugs in the installer and because the dev are dedicating time to this and not "that" feature or the "other"...
null

Edited 23 hours ago by Draken35

[MAXsenna]

This subject surfaces from time to time as sure as auto/easy AAR. I can see where OP is coming from, with valid points. Personally disk space is not an issue for me. Compared to the 20TB of baby/children videos of my daughter, it's nothing.

Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[rob10]

10 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Perhaps at some point DCS just goes for streaming all the content vs storing it locally. 

Dear god no!!!!!!!  Not everyone has high speed and unlimited data.

[rob10]

9 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

If you try that other sim that streams the content it actually doesn’t need that much bandwidth. The recommended is just 50mbps. It seems like the only solution for games with such large content. Like when or if DCS ends up with a global map just putting it on a drive will become unmanageable. 

"Just" 50 mbps.  In some cases that's not available on the user end.

And as BigNewy pointed out, that's multiplied by thousands on the ED end that has to serve up.

Edited 21 hours ago by rob10

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, rob10 said:

"Just" 50 mbps.  In some cases that's not available on the user end.

And as BigNewy pointed out, that's multiplied by thousands on the ED end that has to serve up.

Sure, that doesn’t sound like an option here. Yet. It’s probably the future though. All other media has moved from packaged to downloaded to streamed. Games likely will too. We’re just at stage 2 for now. I don’t see how a global earth model ED is considering would be feasible unless it were streamed.  

Edited 20 hours ago by SharpeXB

[Nealius]

The only reason the liveries are bloated at all is because they have unnecessarily large resolutions, often 4k or 2k. 

[celestHawk]

6 hours ago, Nealius said:

The only reason the liveries are bloated at all is because they have unnecessarily large resolutions, often 4k or 2k. 

I started a fight but you are trying to start a war  

Addressing the 2k and 4k textures got me thinking - what if I download early version of DCS World and replace the latest one with old texture files - wherever it possible. That wont save only space but will get a bit easy on graphics, isn't it?

Does any one knows which version should I download for a 1080p textures? Anyone knows when ED started to 'remaster' the graphics? 

[MAXsenna]

8 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Sure, that doesn’t sound like an option here. Yet. It’s probably the future though. All other media has moved from packaged to downloaded to streamed. Games likely will too. We’re just at stage 2 for now. I don’t see how a global earth model ED is considering would be feasible unless it were streamed.  

You didn't get the joke! You wrote 50 millibits per second and not Megabits. Pretty sure milli ain't gonna cut it for streaming. 

44 minutes ago, celestHawk said:

I started a fight but you are trying to start a war  

Addressing the 2k and 4k textures got me thinking - what if I download early version of DCS World and replace the latest one with old texture files - wherever it possible. That wont save only space but will get a bit easy on graphics, isn't it?

Does any one knows which version should I download for a 1080p textures? Anyone knows when ED started to 'remaster' the graphics? 

Try this instead.  

 

 

@BIGNEWY Can we please get rid of this forced merging of replies/posting if you do it in less than five minutes. Multi quoting works fine.  

Edited 11 hours ago by MAXsenna

[Darcaem]

That's exactly why I would like to be able to "select not to download" certain liveries. I use zbysiek's script, it has worked wonders in VR for my limited GPU's vram, and every update I need to redownload again all textures that I had optimized, so even a minor hotfix means I had to spend up to an hour, and after DCS's update I need to re-optimize the same textures again, which takes around another 20-30min

Can I live with that? Absolutly. This wish suggested on this topic is by no means a life of death situation, but in my opinion (I may be wrong) is not a terrible complicated feature that could mean a quality of life upgrade for some people for different reasons. Hardware is cheaper, sure, but in my mindset this should be no reason to not optimize things and just bruteforce it.

EDIT: just remembered the Spanish expression we say while refering to bruteforce things "do not kill flies with cannon shots" (no mates moscas a cañonazos) and I though it was funny

Edited 11 hours ago by Darcaem

[buceador]

17 hours ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

Sorry for this but with all due respect, SSD or M2 drives 2TB-4TB, are the cheapest component for a computer. Buy a 4TB drive and enjoy all liveries at will.

I remember Microsoft saying something similar about their bloatware many years ago...

[Hiob]

Just now, Darcaem said:

That's exactly why I would like to be able to "select not to download" certain liveries. I use zbysiek's script, it has worked wonders in VR for my limited GPU's vram, and every update I need to redownload again all textures that I had optimized, so even a minor hotfix means I had to spend up to an hour, and after DCS's update I need to re-optimize the same textures again, which takes around another 20-30min

Can I live with that? Absolutly. This wish suggested on this topic is by no means a life of death situation, but in my opinion (I may be wrong) is not a terrible complicated feature that could mean a quality of life upgrade for some people for different reasons. Hardware is cheaper, sure, but in my mindset this should be no reason to not optimize things and just bruteforce it.

Why don't you just use a mod manager to manage your modified liveries?
I do that with all the files I manually altered. I just add them as a "mod" and then deactivate all mods before an update and re-apply them afterwards. Takes a minute.

[Darcaem]

1 minute ago, Hiob said:

Why don't you just use a mod manager to manage your modified liveries?
I do that with all the files I manually altered. I just add them as a "mod" and then deactivate all mods before an update and re-apply them afterwards. Takes a minute.

You are completely right. I haven't use any so far because I was used to manually handle mods in my "past as a gamer"... but this will justify using it. Thank for the remainder.

[buceador]

13 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

On my DCS the biggest use of space come from the Maps, not CoreMods:

While I respect your statement one could argue that maps are a choice whereas as 'redundant' liveries are not.

[celestHawk]

6 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Why don't you just use a mod manager to manage your modified liveries?
I do that with all the files I manually altered. I just add them as a "mod" and then deactivate all mods before an update and re-apply them afterwards. Takes a minute.

Could you explain how you do it?

I never used a mod manager and any modification I make is manually.

[MAXsenna]

You are completely right. I haven't use any so far because I was used to manually handle mods in my "past as a gamer"... but this will justify using it. Thank for the remainder.

And for texture mods, like Barthek's etc. Use SLAM as the mod manager. It will apply your mods in seconds and not wear out your SSDs.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

Could you explain how you do it?
I never used a mod manager and any modification I make is manually.

Look up Rudel_chw's guide to OvGME. Very well written. Personally I have moved on to Open Mod Manager, which is the same dev as OvGME, and it's currently developed. OvGME is not.
Also look up SLAM in the user files section/forum, as it's much MUCH better for large mods. Extremely easy to setup.

Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Esac_mirmidon]

3 hours ago, buceador said:

I remember Microsoft saying something similar about their bloatware many years ago...

I think even in the worst case, considering DCS liveries as Microsoft bloatware is just an exageration of bybical proportion.

[Hiob]

3 hours ago, celestHawk said:

Could you explain how you do it?

I never used a mod manager and any modification I make is manually.

A mod manager is basically a script that copy and pastes certain files and keeps backups from the originals. The neat part is, that it keeps track and offers a convenient interface for all of this. The only thing you have to do, is to put your "mods" (altered files) in the same subfolder structure as the files you want to replace.
I'm using OVGME, because it does what I need and is very simple to use. 

3 hours ago, Darcaem said:

You are completely right. I haven't use any so far because I was used to manually handle mods in my "past as a gamer"... but this will justify using it. Thank for the remainder.

Yeah, I get that. But doing it manually got out of hand quickly. Actually, I could've kicked myself for not learning how to use a mod manager earlier.....

[celestHawk]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

And for texture mods, like Barthek's etc. Use SLAM as the mod manager. It will apply your mods in seconds and not wear out your SSDs.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

Look up Rudel_chw's guide to OvGME. Very well written. Personally I have moved on to Open Mod Manager, which is the same dev as OvGME, and it's currently developed. OvGME is not.
Also look up SLAM in the user files section/forum, as it's much MUCH better for large mods. Extremely easy to setup.

Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

At the moment I'm waiting on DCS Optimized Textures Powershell Script and I saw his suggestion on SLAM, however I'll redo it on the next update and then will move the retexured files as a personal mod so now I'll just replace the originals with downscaled ones and check what is what. Ahhh once again the community modding saved the developer ars3s!

[Rudel_chw]

4 hours ago, buceador said:

While I respect your statement one could argue that maps are a choice whereas as 'redundant' liveries are not.

 

Liveries may be redundant to you, but please do not speak for everyone else: For me, liveries add much for immersion on my own missions, as I strive to use the most appropiate liveries, so in addition to what ED gives us at CoreMods I also download extra liveries from User Files:

 

 

[buceador]

4 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

Liveries may be redundant to you, but please do not speak for everyone else

Hi @Rudel_chw I am aware that English is not your first language.
I do not intend to patronise, what follows is for clarity.
I said:
'While I respect your statement one could argue that maps are a choice whereas as 'redundant' liveries are not.'
The use of 'one' in this sentence refers to the speaker as a general person or in a detached manner, so as not to be confused as the person writing.  Also, the speech marks around 'redundant' signify this is a quote from another contributor and not necessarily my opinion.
So when you say:
'Liveries may be redundant to you, but please do not speak for everyone else:'

You will understand that I am certainly not 'speaking for everyone else' nor stating that I necessarily think liveries are redundant.
Thanks. 

1 hour ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

I think even in the worst case, considering DCS liveries as Microsoft bloatware is just an exageration of bybical proportion.

I was not making a direct comparison between Microsoft's bloatware and ED's core liveries, I was suggesting that in both cases the proffered 'solution' was to buy more storage (rather that address the potential problem of increasing data size) 

[Rudel_chw]

12 minutes ago, buceador said:

the speech marks around 'redundant' signify this is a quote from another contributor and not necessarily my opinion.

 

ok, sorry I didn't catch this meaning, thanks for clarifying.