DCS A-10C QUESTIONS

[wolfstriked]

Thanks for the heads up fellas on the counter measures mode switch constantly changing.:megalol:Manual mode it is!!

[Luzifer]

Some considerations: minimal noise (canopy then APU) and APU on as short time as possible which I believe is a good thing because I believe it is some sort of battery? Anyways...

 

Um... The APU is a turbine, it uses the same fuel as the engines. Plus it should charge the batteries when its generator is online.

 

Starting the APU will use the batteries since it is cranked by an electric motor.

[shagrat]

Is the Allied Flight Reports setting realistic?

Also is the IFFCC bit test necessary?

(...)

1. Basics

2. APU

3. Contact ATC

4. Engines and controls

5. Ready avionic stuff

6. Electronics

7. CMS then more electronics

8. Navigation and contact ATC again

 

6 and a half minute.

 

(...)

Allied Flight reports is realistic. Other flights report what they discover, flights, ground targets etc. Helps to get a picture, but can be distracting or interfere with mission voice overs... so you have the option to disable them.

 

BITS Test is... realistic, but if you don't have random failures on...:music_whistling:

 

The quickest way I came up with (but not conforming with RL procedures) was:

1. battery, inverter, AC generators, CDU, EGI, APU, Fuel pumps

2. AntiSkid, CICU, JTRS, IFFCC, MFCDs

3. APU gen, SAS, T/O trim, Enter BITS Test, Radios (load all as soon as indicated)

4. Engine L, Canopy, Oxygen, TACAN/ILS if necessary, cockpit lights APU gen off when Master caution comes up

5. Engine R, Flight plan, IFFCC final, DSMS profiles, CMS programming (activation AFTER take off!)...wait for alignment

6. NAV ready, EGI on NMSP, RADAR, EAC, ArmSeat, NWS

Ready to rumble!

About 5 minutes, or more depending on fiddling with the DSMS or going for standards...

[ENO]

Not seeing pitot heat in either of those. Most say irl to turn it on after takeoff since it can overheat but more often than not (in the sim) it gets forgotten and causes other problems. Overheating the pitot isn't modeled so why not just hit it when you hit the o2?

[PFunk1606688187]

Some people prefer to actually pretend like some unmodeled systems are modeled for the sake of immersion and enjoying the procedure. The IFFCC bit test is a fun one because it lasts only about 30 seconds but adds lots of fun immersion to the start up process.

 

In real life I would imagine they'd turn the pitot heat switch on when they configure for take off, not after take off, simply because once you take off the last thing you want to do is worry about one more switch, especially if you get into an emergency situation and you forget about it. If you get engine problems you could easily misdiagnose the speed loss incorrectly. I usually turn it on right before I enter the runway then when I run up the engines with brakes set do one last scanflow to ensure everything is ready.

 

Everyone plays differently. Everyone also usually min maxes their start up even if they're realism nerds because the sim doesn't make start up as simple as it is in real life. Real pilots don't worry about armaments and profiles or flightplans, at least not how we have to.

 

I usually try to get my load out done while Left Engine is starting up so that I'm ready to press Load All as quickly as possible. Also means I can close the canopy to reduce noise pretty much as quickly as possible.

Edited July 3, 2014 by P*Funk

[ENO]

Yeah just before takeoff sounds better and more likely. Either way I hit it with my o2.

[shagrat]

@eno - I know what you mean :D

We always remind ourselves... did you? What? Pitot heat? ...damn!

 

As my checklist isn't real life anyway, it won't be less real to integrate it earlier.

As for the CMS, it can be activated at startup also, but an accidentally launched flare can be a bit panicking for the guy behind you... ;-)

[shagrat]

For me "checklist" is the procedure I memorize and try to repeat everytime on startup. Not actually a physical checklist... though I used a physical to memorize the steps, when I started with the A-10C

[Archer7]

Oh, the struggle between doing a start-up by the book or in the quickest way possible...

Some things also bother me about starting up according to the manual such as it saying to arm the ejection seat already during pre-flight check... what's up with that? I don't believe the training missions tells you to arm it before you are on the runway and that makes more sense to me...

 

I'd like to establish a complete and realistic start-up procedure including pre-flight checks and then one that's as quick as possible not checking anything, for playing the standard missions.

Maybe I can turn to a real manual for a good start-up procedure?

 

I switch the pitot heat on before take-off. Not sure what it does yet and I thought it was completely un-modelled, not only overheating not being modelled.

 

Allied Flight reports is realistic. Other flights report what they discover, flights, ground targets etc. Helps to get a picture, but can be distracting or interfere with mission voice overs... so you have the option to disable them.

 

BITS Test is... realistic, but if you don't have random failures on...:music_whistling:

 

The quickest way I came up with (but not conforming with RL procedures) was:

1. battery, inverter, AC generators, CDU, EGI, APU, Fuel pumps

2. AntiSkid, CICU, JTRS, IFFCC, MFCDs

3. APU gen, SAS, T/O trim, Enter BITS Test, Radios (load all as soon as indicated)

4. Engine L, Canopy, Oxygen, TACAN/ILS if necessary, cockpit lights APU gen off when Master caution comes up

5. Engine R, Flight plan, IFFCC final, DSMS profiles, CMS programming (activation AFTER take off!)...wait for alignment

6. NAV ready, EGI on NMSP, RADAR, EAC, ArmSeat, NWS

Ready to rumble!

About 5 minutes, or more depending on fiddling with the DSMS or going for standards...

 

CDU and EGI turns on without APU gen?

I've tried turning on CDU and EGI then seeing how far I need to go until the screen lights up and they don't light up until the APU gen is on... maybe they still work and the screen simply doesn't come on until APU gen is on?

I also didn't know the APU gen could be off while starting any engine.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Archer7

[shagrat]

No! APU gen provides power to the AC bus, but at that point it powers everything at once... saves a few seconds to switch all on, after APU gen... APU gen has nothing to do with engine start, only APU itself. If you switch on AC gens as soon as the left engine runs it provides A.C. power to the bus and you can/should shutdown APU gen.

pitot heat prevents icing on the pitot tube which measures TAS (true air speed)... when you get a master caution mid air and speed indication hangs, tvv shows crazy behaviour etc. check pitot heat is on . After a few minutes it de-ices and works again.

[Archer7]

Where's the strobe button? Also are you supposed to have your exterior lights on for the entire flight or only during take-off and landing?

 

I'm also curious if there is any definitive start-up checklist.

 

The detailed one in the manual works well though it tells you to arm the ejection seat during pre-flight prep which seems a bit early to me and it forgets the Oxy Ind Test, IFFCC Pre-flight Bit, JTRS and SAI.

The condensed one never mentions EAC, RA, Anti-skid, CDU Nav, NMSP EGI, CMS mode, CMS system, SAI and tells you to turn on boost pumps and arm ejection seat during pre-flight prep.

Also none of the instructions tell you to set TACAN or ILS which I would include somewhere and the detailed one doesn't contain detailed exterior lights instructions which is inconvenient as well.

Both tell you to start the targeting pod during start-up which I'm not sure if you are supposed to do or wait until you are in the air.

 

Both contain about 5 minutes of pre-flight checks, 15 minutes of start-up and 5 minutes taxi.

 

Considering they both contain so many omissions I definitely feel the need for one that's more complete and more efficient.

Is it possible to use some true non-DCS A-10C manual?

I've seen someone on YouTube click that anti-G thing at your left elbow and I'm also curious about the box to the left of the gear handle... it's not in the manual it seems.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Archer7

[Mike Busutil]

pitot heat prevents icing on the pitot tube which measures TAS (true air speed)...

 

Incorrect...

 

The pitot tube reads IAS. (Indicated Airspeed)

 

TAS (True Air Speed) cannot be measured directly.

[shagrat]

Hmm, then I always mixed them up, I guess? TAS = speed against the air flowing around you, so wind heads on or coming from behind affect measured speed?

IAS = speed against the air around you not adding or subtracting the measured wind... and finally GS = speed of the plane in reference to a point or object on the ground corrected for wind?

I'm not sure now, if I'm wrong somewhere? :(

Edited July 3, 2014 by shagrat

[shagrat]

Strobe is called anti-collision light on the panel. It is to the right of the navlights on the other side of the dial...

Anti-collision light only works with lights (pinky .switch) set to aft : manual settings.

[Archer7]

Strobe is called anti-collision light on the panel. It is to the right of the navlights on the other side of the dial...

Anti-collision light only works with lights (pinky .switch) set to aft : manual settings.

 

Aha. I've seen that switch.

 

I'm also going to try out Lobo's and Snoopy's checklists. Snoopy's seems detailed.

[shagrat]

It is... should be as close to real as it gets. He worked on A-10s as ground crew :D

[Luzifer]

Hmm, then I always mixed them up, I guess? TAS = speed against the air flowing around you, so wind heads on or coming from behind affect measured speed?

IAS = speed against the air around you not adding or subtracting the measured wind... and finally GS = speed of the plane in reference to a point or object on the ground corrected for wind?

I'm not sure now, if I'm wrong somewhere? :(

 

IAS is measured as the pressure of air blowing into a tube facing forward. In order to get the same IAS at high altitudes in the thinner air, you actually have to fly flaster. So you have a higher TAS for the same IAS in thinner air. You still use IAS for everything since that determines how the plane handles (i,e, if it stalls at x knots IAS, it stalls at x knots IAS no matter the altitude).

 

You can compute the TAS from the IAS by factoring in the static air pressure. Some planes have instruments for TAS, since maximum speed may depend on TAS (if there's no instrument, at least there will be a table somewhere in the cockpit that tells you how much max speed IAS reduces with altitude).

 

To compute ground speed without GPS you would need to know TAS and wind at your altitude.

[Archer7]

What about official documents?

 

If I understand correctly there exist some documents called TO-1A-10A-1, TO-1A-10A-1-1, TO-1A-10C-1, TO-1A-10C-1-1 and TO 1A-10A-34-1-1.

The TO-1A-10A-1 I understand to be an old A-10A flight manual and it is quite easily available on the interweb.

The TO-1A-10A-1-1 I have no idea what it is but I understand it used to be easily available in the documents thread.

The TO-1A-10C-1 I understand to be an A-10C flight manual and is easily available in the interweb though apparently it ought not to be.

The TO-1A-10C-1-1 I again have no idea what it is and understand it is not available.

The TO 1A-10A-34-1-1 I understand is an A-10A weapons employment manual and is quite easily available on the interweb though again apparently it might not ought to be.

 

Would anyone that has the TO-1A-10A-1-1 mind sharing it or explain what its contents are anyways?

I’m only searching for start-up information really but the general content of manuals seem interesting too.

[PFunk1606688187]

What about official documents?

 

If I understand correctly there exist some documents called TO-1A-10A-1, TO-1A-10A-1-1, TO-1A-10C-1, TO-1A-10C-1-1 and TO 1A-10A-34-1-1.

The TO-1A-10A-1 I understand to be an old A-10A flight manual and it is quite easily available on the interweb.

The TO-1A-10A-1-1 I have no idea what it is but I understand it used to be easily available in the documents thread.

The TO-1A-10C-1 I understand to be an A-10C flight manual and is easily available in the interweb though apparently it ought not to be.

The TO-1A-10C-1-1 I again have no idea what it is and understand it is not available.

The TO 1A-10A-34-1-1 I understand is an A-10A weapons employment manual and is quite easily available on the interweb though again apparently it might not ought to be.

 

Would anyone that has the TO-1A-10A-1-1 mind sharing it or explain what its contents are anyways?

I’m only searching for start-up information really but the general content of manuals seem interesting too.

The -1-1 is just the performance and planning supplement. It contains all the necessary information to plan every aspect of a flight involving aircraft performance under all conceivable conditions based on testing done to the airframe. It contains dozens of charts you read to determine all sorts of things like rotation speed and rejection speed at a given sea level pressure and drag index, the stall and approach speeds for a given configuration, etc etc.

 

The -1-1 for the A is close enough to the C as to be nearly the same, owing no doubt to few actual changes made between the two models in terms of performance. The real difference I think would be the drag indices.

 

 

I've personally never come across the The TO 1A-10A-34-1-1 and I'm not so sure its that readily available. I have easily found the -1 for the C though. Thats pretty easy to find. I'm pretty sure I found it here even.

 

The TO-1A-10A-1 I have contains the -1-1 as well. I believe this link provides the same one. http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=42

Edited July 3, 2014 by P*Funk

[Archer7]

The -1-1 is just the performance and planning supplement. It contains all the necessary information to plan every aspect of a flight involving aircraft performance under all conceivable conditions based on testing done to the airframe. It contains dozens of charts you read to determine all sorts of things like rotation speed and rejection speed at a given sea level pressure and drag index, the stall and approach speeds for a given configuration, etc etc.

 

The -1-1 for the A is close enough to the C as to be nearly the same, owing no doubt to few actual changes made between the two models in terms of performance. The real difference I think would be the drag indices.

 

 

I've personally never come across the The TO 1A-10A-34-1-1 and I'm not so sure its that readily available. I have easily found the -1 for the C though. Thats pretty easy to find. I'm pretty sure I found it here even.

 

The TO-1A-10A-1 I have contains the -1-1 as well. I believe this link provides the same one. http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=42

 

Aha. I haven't been through the documents so haven't checked if the -1s contain the 1-1s...

I only saw This manual is incomplete without TO 1A-l0A-1-1.on the covers.

The 34 isn't as easily available as the A/C-1 but it's out there.

 

According to one document I've seen in addition to the above material and about three or so classified documents it seems "AFI11-214" (available) is used by A-10 pilots and contains A-A/A-G training ops procedures it seems after a quick check.

 

I've also seen some dull documents containing weight data and some which I couldn't quite understand what their purpose is just by browsing through them quickly... such as the 11-2A-10C v3 and 11-A/OA10C v3.

[Archer7]

What does the first trigger stage do? P by default... makes PAC-1 show up on the HUD I believe. When the gun is shot PAC-2 shows up.

[Flagrum]

What does the first trigger stage do? P by default... makes PAC-1 show up on the HUD I believe. When the gun is shot PAC-2 shows up.

from the manual:

Precision Attitude Control (PAC). In PAC 1, pressing the trigger in Gun master mode will trim the aircraft through SAS to keep the gun pipper on the target point

 

PAC automatically adjusts aircraft pitch and yaw control inputs such that gun rounds fall in a tighter grouping around the aim point, rather than being impacted lengthwise along the aircraft’s line of travel when firing.

[JayPee]

DCS A-10C QUESTIONS

 

If you have to make minor adjustments to your aim prior to firing, do you generally 'fight' PAC1 or do you make them before you engage PAC1? If the latter is the case, then what is the added value of PAC1 if PAC is enabled while firing the gun anyway? Only reason I could come up with is if your aim is set but you still have to fly down the slant range because youre too far out to make your rounds effective..

[Flagrum]

If you have to make minor adjustments to your aim prior to firing, do you generally 'fight' PAC1 or do you make them before you engage PAC1? If the latter is the case, then what is the added value of PAC1 if PAC is enabled while firing the gun anyway? Only reason I could come up with is if your aim is set but you still have to fly down the slant range because youre too far out to make your rounds effective..

Normally you should be already right on target when you engage PAC.

 

The system stabilizes the aircraft during firing the GAU-8 so it does not wander off the target (= PAC-2). To be able to accomplish this, it needs a stable attitude that allows the system to excert sufficient trim authority (= PAC-1) when the gun is fired eventually. If you now maneuver off the assumed stable attitude while already in PAC-1 mode, you reduce the trim authority in one way or the other.

 

Note: it takes ~6-8 seconds for PAC-1 to fully stabilize the aircraft.

[shagrat]

Exactly! Fly until you have the pipper on target. Engage PAC1 to steady the pipper on the target, don't fight it. If necessary readjust and press again or abort. When the range circle is at 6 o'clock watch distance closely and depending on target fire a 1-2 sec burst and evade.