Inflight refueling

[shu77]

2 connections, for a couple seconds, 3 connections with the KC135 tail plane. Dont get frustrated and shoot him.... Also try adjusting the axis sensitivity a little in the middle, that seems to make it easier to get the fine movements in close.

[skypirate]

I manage to connect every time, getting better with more practice...

But I can not hold for longer than few seconds either. And PITA that I can not ask the tanker for retry. I can't get him back on the radios after the first disconnect.

[HemingwayFE]

A couple of things I noticed:-

- the frequency for the tanker (e.g. 131.0) has to be FM and NOT AM for the comms to work for me.

- According to the a10a Flight Manual, the tanker will automatically disconnect if excessive fuel pressure occurs in the receiver fuel manifold. Don't know if this is modelled.

- I would like to know what the refuel rate is for the a10. For aircraft like the Phantom with large diameter plumbing it was 2000kgs/min, the Tornado with weight saving plumbing was closer to 700kgs/min.

 

Looking at Warzens.. video, it look like about 2500lbs /min

 

Refuel rate for a specific aircraft is not how it works. Per the -1 a KC-135 can refuel at 6000 pounds per minute. Granted, this could be based off how my aircraft's manifold is designed, but that is the 'book answer'.

 

Also, if you guys are looking for accuracy the receiver aircraft flies in manual. The Tanker can operate with autopilot on or autopilot off. Both them and the receiver aircrews do this for currency. The pressure disconnect happens when the receiver aircraft's fuel tanks (any one of them) hit's a float switch. For example, the AWACS has two. The secondary float switch will close the refuel valve for that specific tank. If the primary float switch engages, the entire refuel manifold will close off resulting in the boom disconnecting. That's a pressure disconnect.

Edited November 7, 2010 by HemingwayFE

[Druid_]

I have played around with this for a bit and a few things that might help ..

1) Formate on the tanker to one side. Once you have nailed his speed - TRIM

2) Once you have done your checks, ready pre-contact

3) Move smoothly behind tanker

4) Put gun pipper just above boom wings on boom.

5) Move in slowly, at 10ft from boom, engage autopilot (I was using a crappy x52 joystick on this occasion, the TM Hog is fine without AP)

6) Re-trim if req'd but make sure you are stable with 4) above

7) At about 6ft boom operator wakes up and boom raises into position

8] DON'T LOOK at boom, follow centre line of tanker

9) Move in slowly, boom operator will guide in and ....

10) 'contact' your taking fuel.

11) try and keep boom 'green' section exposed. Amber = do something, red = bad.

 

Don't be to aggressive on the throttles, I think the correct word here is ANTICIPATE. I use a max of 4% fan speed throttle changes....usually. Have fun !!

 

(using the autopilot isn't cheating in my opinion, its down to the quality of your HOTAS and the limitations of stick force and feedback that only exists IRL).

Edited November 22, 2010 by Druid_
.trk file broken with beta3

[Ells228]

As Druid said, most of the real life training videos I've seen (JetStream Canadian F-18's as an example) form up either side a little back, that's your pre-contact point, then slide on over to centre and follow Druid's guide.

Works for me every time and I can normally tank about 60% before disconnect.

 

I've created a mission that may help you.

 

http://www.veao.eu/dcs_a10/Ells-Refuel-Day.miz

 

http://www.veao.eu/dcs_a10/Ells-Refuel-Dawn.miz

 

Day starts at 8am and dawn starts at 5am as I was testing lights out from the tanker for a night time refuel.

 

Tanker starts out 3 minutes after you startup, so gives you time to start from cold and follow him out on the runway.

 

Tacan is set (although I don't use it as have visual most of the time) and tanker is on 131.00AM - read the mission brief.

 

Form up on him at WP3 (shows 2 in ME but 3 in flight) and stay with him in the turn at WP4, this helps your formation flying, then refuel when he levels out after the turn. After refuel, slide out to his wing and stay with him until you break for landing, again practice formation on him.

 

Edited November 7, 2010 by Ells228

[dane48]

Thanks for the missions Ells228, now I have 3 missions to practice with. And also thank you Druid and all others with my sometimes many questions

[ESzczesniak]

Refuel rate for a specific aircraft is not how it works. Per the -1 a KC-135 can refuel at 6000 pounds per minute. Granted, this could be based off how my aircraft's manifold is designed, but that is the 'book answer'.

 

Actually it is. The KC-135 can refuel at a certain maximum rate. You're 6,000 lbs per minute is about right from what I've read. Many aircraft, particularly heavy aircraft can accept fuel this quickly and will refuel at the maximum rate.

 

Other aircraft, particularly tactical aircraft, for space or weight reasons have smaller diameter or lower pressure fuel lines and can not accept fuel at this rate.

 

I don't know many specific aircraft numbers, but I have seen some documentation for the Phantom taking fuel at 2,000 kg/min and the Tornado at 700 kg/min. these are two very similar types of aircraft, but drastically different refuel rates given the internal plumbing.

Edited November 7, 2010 by ESzczesniak

[Druid_]

I don't know many specific aircraft numbers, but I do have some documentation for the Tornado taking fuel at 2,000 kg/min and the Typhoon at 700 kg/min. these are two very similar types of aircraft, but drastically different refuel rates given the internal plumbing.

What documentation is this?

 

The Tornado in my experience never took fuel at anything above 800 kgs/min, and was even less when filling up the fin tank. The Phantom F4 however, 2000kgs/min was possible, marvellous aircraft!

[ESzczesniak]

What documentation is this?

 

The Tornado in my experience never took fuel at anything above 800 kgs/min, and was even less when filling up the fin tank. The Phantom F4 however, 2000kgs/min was possible, marvellous aircraft!

 

Ah, you know I think I confused these. I don't have POH sitting around or anything with the numbers in them. I was actually completely off on the aircraft types (fixed) and I think it was in fact the Phantom and Tornado compared. No the Tornado and Typhoon.

[Hank_Williams]

keepin the speed right, is the most difficult thing....

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Can I just get clarification on the tank disable buttons - should they be in or out? Just want to make 100% I'm not disconnecting from the tanker because it can't fill my tanks.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Argh, no matter what I try I can't remain connected for longer than a couple of seconds :ranting:

 

I'm sure I've not dropped out of limits... I think.

[koyan]

This is how i managed, maybe it is of some help. When i was lined up nicely behind the tanker and at the correct altitude for the boom, i engaged AP. From that point i didn't move the elevator axis of the stick anymore (the plane stayed perfectly level with the tanker). Got closer and the boom connected. From there only tiny aileron movements to stay well in line. And i found i had to be just a little more quick with the throttle to keep the boom connected. It took quite some time before completely filled up, but what seemed impossible, suddenly looked easy when the tanks were almost filled. For me AP is the way to go.

Edited November 9, 2010 by koyan

[Slayer]

This is my first attempt

 

Glad I ordered a WH because I can tell you this ain't happening for me with my G940. Really good for a first try, I wouldnt even be able to get lined up.

[shu77]

SUCCESS!

After about 3 hours practice...

X52 users I found a trick is to go into the Axis assignment and adjust the Axis tune to have a curvature of -15ish this moves the sweet spot for the X52 below the beginning of the Afterburner detent (that bit where the throttle gets stiffer) and gives you a lot more play to keep the speed at the required amount. I also added a positive curvature of 10 to each of the control surfaces to give them a little more play near the centre. I would have thought the throttle should have a positive curvature, but that actually made it harder.

Worth a try if you dont have a Warthog.... :)

[VTJS17_Fire]

Could you post some screenshots of your axis adjustment?

Thanks.

 

 

kind regards,

Fire

[Succellus]

Curvature of the axis is there to be fooled with. I usually flaten it a lot near the center to be able to do small adjustments. I was never good at refuelling, i hope my warthog come soon so i can buy a10 and start training.

[Druid_]

Could you post some screenshots of your axis adjustment?

Thanks.

kind regards,

Fire

FOR THROTTLE

-Go into DCS, Options/Controls/ select Throttle Common from Action list/ select AXIS TUNE button fron bottom.

-Tick Slider

-Move Curvature so that 30 is displayed in window / click OK

 

FOR JOYSTICK

-Go into DCS, Options/Controls/ select Pitch from Action list / select AXIS TUNE button fron bottom.

-Slider,invert should be unticked (user curve also unless you know what yr doing)

-Move Curvature slider to 10. (start at 10 and increase it if it still too sensitive for you).

-Do above again for Roll from Action list.

 

Hope that helps. It a starting point but I would recommend playing around with these settings to suit you. See my prev post here if you are still having problems with AAR .

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Can I just get clarification on the tank disable buttons - should they be in or out? Just want to make 100% I'm not disconnecting from the tanker because it can't fill my tanks.

 

Anyone?

[Eddie]

They should be in, unless you have a leak in one of the tanks. In which case you'd pull the fill disable switch for the leaking tank to stop it being filled during refuelling.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Thanks. I thought as much, but as they're out by default I wasn't sure.

[koyan]

Anyone?

 

 

Those four little round buttons like the AP button? Don't touch them, they are out by default, if i'm correct, and that's how it should be.

 

Oops double reply, haha. So they are in by default? Ok :)

Edited November 9, 2010 by koyan

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Those four little round buttons like the AP button? Don't touch them, they are out by default, if i'm correct, and that's how it should be.

 

Oops double reply, haha. So they are in by default? Ok :)

 

They are out by default. So I'm still none the wiser it would seem.

[Succellus]

Well can t anyone do the test ? About those switches, i m curious.

[ESzczesniak]

Well can t anyone do the test ? About those switches, i m curious.

 

What testing is needed? Leave them out. If they're in your tanks won't fill. If they're all in, they yes the tanker will disconnect, as there's nothing for it to fill.