Canopy scratches?

[shagrat]

The ground crew just forgot to polish the back seat's canopy.

No they simply cannot polish inside(!) the polycarbon. The tiny "scratches" are actually crazing inside the canopy's material when exposed to sunlight for some time.

[shagrat]

Again, as noted previously, this doesn't show up nearly as much to the human eye as it does to a camera, because of stereoscopic vision. It's the same reason that, I.R.L., you "see through" (around, really, but it looks transparent) most of the canopy bars while you're focusing on a distant object behind them, while in the sim they are fully opaque and very obstructing.

 

I don't object to a realistic, subtle canopy scratches effect which occurs only when & where it should, and which looks on the monitor exactly as it does to the naked eye in reality, but most of the people in this thread appear to be asking for the horrific blindness which was old LO:MAC's very unrealistic canopy scratches. (I had to mod it out ... only two mods on my old LO:MAC installation, one to improve cloud F.P.S. and the other to get rid of the ridiculous scratches.) No thanks--not in a realistic flight simulator.

Totally agree, as said before: I would like a more subtle simulation of crazing and perhaps some little(!!!) scratches, but realistic in a way of corresponding to the light source. The Lock On/FC2 effect was a bit overdone, but still I liked the feeling of actually looking through a canopy.

I think the BMS picture shows a nice and subtle effect there... and if it is implemented as an option, everyone will be happy. :smilewink:

[Aries]

I don't like the BMS version, it's too plastic... I look at it and I just know right away that it's a "sticker" texture...

 

But the FC2 one, man... it's done so right! Don't even think it's esagerated a single bit...

 

[Echo38]

Incidentally, DCS: P-51 features these scratches, and they're pretty good. (The reflections, on the other hand, are "pasted on" and so, although they look great when everything's stationary, they aren't right when you move your virtual head around & stuff.)

[Aries]

Incidentally, DCS: P-51 features these scratches, and they're pretty good.

 

Just found this one cockpit screenshot where the crazing in Mustang's cockpit it is visible:

 

Can anyone of you 'Stang flyboys confirm it? Screenshot maybe?

[Echo38]

Here are three screenshots. Each has the camera pointing in the exact same direction. Shots were taken a couple of seconds apart, while stationary on the ground. The first one is 100 degrees FoV, the second one is 75 deg., and the third is 30 deg.

 

It's still more than you would usually notice I.R.L. ('coz of aforementioned stereoscopic thing), but quite reasonably done. I'm happy with it. It's nothing dreadful like old LO:MAC's. P-51D's canopy scratches look nice, anyway, and aren't far from the real deal, I.M.O.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Echo38

[Cali]

I don't like the BMS version, it's too plastic... I look at it and I just know right away that it's a "sticker" texture...

 

But the FC2 one, man... it's done so right! Don't even think it's esagerated a single bit...

 

 

Have you sat in a real fighter and seen how it looks? Too me both are fine.

[Echo38]

Have you sat in a real fighter and seen how it looks? Too me both are fine.

 

Were your eyes focused on a distant object (e.g. something five hundred yards away), or were you staring at the canopy?

[Cali]

Were your eyes focused on a distant object (e.g. something five hundred yards away), or were you staring at the canopy?

 

Depending on where the sun was, but yes it's more noticeable if looking at the canopy. While flying you get distracted by the flight and fight a lot of times and you phase that out, just like how rl would be.

[Wolf Rider]

Depending on where the sun was, but yes it's more noticeable if looking at the canopy. While flying you get distracted by the flight and fight a lot of times and you phase that out, just like how rl would be.

 

 

Which is something which can't be done in-sim... requires stereoscopic vision

 

 

perhaps?

[Cali]

Which is something which can't be done in-sim... requires stereoscopic vision

 

 

perhaps?

 

They become less noticeable in real life and in the game has you get more busy fighting. That doesn't require anything, it's just how it goes when you get busy. I have never thought while fighting a person, hmmm the canopy scratches to fake. There are a lot of things that a monitor just can't do that our eyes can. Flying or even sitting in a fighter you will see what a big difference it is.

[Wolf Rider]

They become less noticeable in real life ~ There are a lot of things that a monitor just can't do that our eyes can. Flying or even sitting in a fighter you will see what a big difference it is.

 

 

yes, less noticable because of where the rl eyes focus to... on the canopy or out into the blue

and yes, another monitor/ one-eye (ingame) vision problem

[Echo38]

Distraction is a wholly different element. It doesn't have anything to do with stereoscopic vision. Human eyes can focus on a distant object, which has the effect of making sufficiently small objects (such as a scratch, or even a canopy bar), which are located in between the eye and the distant object, appear transparent. This cannot be realistically replicated on a P.C. monitor* because both of your eyes are focused on the monitor a couple of feet away from you. As a result of this discrepancy, canopy scratches and canopy bars are more visually obstructing in a P.C. sim than they are in reality. The level of distraction is irrelevant.

 

*Unless, that is, you possess a pair of shutter-goggles and software which accommodates it--which, AFAIK, no P.C. flight sim in existence does.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Echo38

[Wolf Rider]

 

Distraction is a wholly different element. It doesn't have anything to do with stereoscopic vision. Human eyes can focus on a distant object, which has the effect of making sufficiently small objects (such as a scratch, or even a canopy bar), which are located in between the eye and the distant object, appear transparent. This cannot be realistically replicated on a P.C. monitor* because both of your eyes are focused on the monitor a couple of feet away from you. As a result of this discrepancy, canopy scratches and canopy bars are more visually obstructing in a P.C. sim than they are in reality. The level of distraction is irrelevant.

 

~

 

 

yes.. perhaps "binocular" vision would have been a better term than "stereoscopic" vision.. even though both are essentially the same.

Binocular meaning two eyes and stereoscopic being the effect of using two eyes, with regard to near and far focus and the effect thereof of an object in the way of the view. Distraction can/ does cause the focus (of the eyes) to shift

Edited September 17, 2012 by Wolf Rider

[Cali]

Anyway, I think I voted "Naaah, I couldn't care less... " since there are things we will never get from flying in front of a monitor to include sounds and the feel. If people could feel the G's they pull in this game as they are in real life, they wouldn't be doing some crazy stuff I have seen. That's another story or thread that would end up nowhere.

[Aries]

Can someone explain, why something active on the DCS Mustang cockpit can't be turned on in the DCS Warthog module in the same DCS World environment, or at least embedded as an option...?

 

:cry::cry::cry:

[Echo38]

The A-10C canopy isn't the same shape & size as the P-51D canopy. If you simply copied & pasted the scratches from one to the other, as you suggest, then you'd end up with errors.

[WildBillKelsoe]

you guys make it sound like a lunatic dog is sitting in the cockpit trying to get out HAHAHAHAAA!!! :lol:

[Aries]

The A-10C canopy isn't the same shape & size as the P-51D canopy. If you simply copied & pasted the scratches from one to the other, as you suggest, then you'd end up with errors.

 

Any idea of a person that could make it work for the Hawg... to make it as a mod or something? :unsure:

[Echo38]

If anyone has, my guess is that it would be PeterP. No idea.

[Aries]

Bumpety, bumpety, bumpety - bump... :D

 

C'mon... answers, ideas... saviours... preachers of light... crazing and scratches... :smilewink:

[Tom73]

Good day gents,

 

to revive an old thread, can someone by chance point me to a mod which will give the FC 3 Mig-29s, Su-27s and Su-33 the cockpit scratches back?

That would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[MasterZelgadis]

Bad poll.

The only possible answers are:

 

1) Yes, I agree

2) I don't care

3) I make fun of it

 

So I vote for the 4th possible answer:

 

4) No, I don't want them

[Aries]

Bad poll.

The only possible answers are:

 

1) Yes, I agree

2) I don't care

3) I make fun of it

 

So I vote for the 4th possible answer:

 

4) No, I don't want them

 

REALLY!!?!?!? :D

 

Now that FC3 is in the game... I think it's time to bring them canopy crazing to all the airframes...

 

Make me a canopy crazed Christmas ED, please, with sugar on top... :holiday:

Edited December 15, 2012 by Aries

[Speed]

Canopy scratches are unrealistic and they interfere badly with target detection. IRL, you eyes would be focused at infinity, and also, even if you did see them, your brain's depth perception would reject them. We have no such natural "scratch rejection" on a simulated on a 2D screen, so yea, they interfere badly with target detection in ways that are unrealistic. I hate them.