Canopy scratches?

[Cali]

There are 'scratches' in all canopies. They're not really scratches, but when looking at a bright light source there's is clearly, on all canopies both new and old, circular-patterned lines.

 

The thing is, these lines are incredibly faint and you would not normally see them as your eye would be focused far beyond them. The canopy 'scratches' shown in the pictures above are a little excessive since, due to the nature of the game we see everything in-focus.

 

An A-10 more than likely has far stricter standards than an F-15E but I can see fine lines on every single canopy, even those about to be installed when an old one was to be removed, so to say that all canopies are more finely polished than the Hubble telescope's primary mirror is a little disingenuous.

 

 

Why would an A-10 have stricter standards then a F-15 or F-16? I believe they all have the same standards. I'll ask a buddy of mine that worked on A-10's, F-16's and F-22 and see what he says.

[Aries]

I think there was some sort of scratch at first, but DCS had problem with it!

You can see it here at

 

Please pay attention to it at 4:30, seeing some scratches in the middle of air, of course!

 

OMFG!!! IT'S BEEN THERE AND IT'S REMOVED... AND EVERYONES BEEN POINTING A STICK AT ME FOR BEEING ANNOYING... NO ONE WOULD ADMIT IT HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED & DISABLED... THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS...

 

Not to mention I called my friend who flies on a Pilatus and he confirmed with like 100% crazing is there, even on new canopies as Frostiken mentioned...

 

So why tha hell are we being thrown all this "it's not realistic" bull**** if it was already in the sim... come on...

 

Now I'm pretty offended... liar, liar, your ass is on fire... :smilewink:

[epoch]

Presumably due to my reply in this thread, the following PM exchange occurred:

 

 

not realistic?

 

have you seen this real life picture?

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/123scc.jpg/

 

im asking for an option man, not a default settings change, get it?

 

 

I fear that you don't get it, 'man'.

 

And it seems no amount of explanation by people who work on real A10s will get through to you.

 

What you ask for is unrealistic and trivial. There are other priorities.

 

 

U just made me call my real life pilot friend... he said that crazing is there and is visible 100% on his Pilatus canopy... he said it isn't there maybe when it's factory new, but after the first flight, there it is...

 

 

So, Aries' real life friend knows best (and presumably polishes his aircraft with a Brillo pad).

[Aries]

Presumably due to my reply in this thread, the following PM exchange occurred:

 

"blah blah blah, nag nag nag, blah blaaaah"

 

Have You read my upper post...?

 

PM is called that for a purpose... and in your post I see no purpose... nor point... :D

 

My goal was to make more ppl go through the poll... I acomplished that... :smartass:

 

My persistence led to the discovery of the scratches already being implemented in the Producer Notes 2 video (4:30 in timeline), thanks to jmod... another interesting acomplishment... :thumbup:

 

What have you acomplished with your flaming & nagging my friend? :music_whistling:

[Cali]

Just got a message back from my egress friend and this is what he said.

Alot of crazing on 16's was allowable.....22's not allowed at all and 10's canopy is maintained by crash recovery

 

He is now at Edwards AFB, just moved from Alaska. I don't know anyone in crash recovery.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Cali

[KillarZ]

This thread has gotten a lot of attention suprisngly. I don't care if they are immplemented or not, just as long as you can turn them off/on if they get annoying or drop fps. But I'm really suprised that this thread is still active because to me this is a little subject compared to some other threads.

 

P.S I hope noone takes offense when I say that.

[RPY Variable]

I think that many people are getting it wrong. Crazing is one thing and scratches are other. Crazing is deeper than a scratch and is structural in a canopy. Scratches are only superficial like the ones we would see in any peace of plastic reflecting light.

 

I know is a Russian plane but check out at 3:13

 

 

And I don´t understand why some people say "there are more important things to discuss". This as a wish list threat, we put ideas here, then if there is a good one, ED decides if they implemented or not. We don´t need to filter our selves with priorities.

Edited June 18, 2011 by mikel.132

[Aries]

Bah... even BF3 has decent canopy scratches... :(

 

 

Not to mention no none from ED ever explained why were they removed if existed in early releases...

 

Canopy scratches can't be there but the frikkin white boxes on my 6950 sure can... it's sad...

 

That's my weekend nagging routine... sorry everyone... can't help it... :smilewink:

[Squid]

Yes bring it back please, why is the poll closed ?

[Trident]

I would like to see them back, I have yet to see a glass window (*any* glass window, combat aircraft or otherwise) that didn't have at least a few of them. While the level of scratching seen in the original release of LOMAC might be excessive by real world standards, I think a more subtle implementation would greatly add to the sensation that there is a glass canopy between the player's alter ego and the outside world.

[Aries]

 

Even BF3 has them...

 

:cry::cry::cry:

[Echo38]

Rigged poll is rigged. A non-rigged poll would have a "Yes, I like them," "No, I dislike them them," and "I don't care," instead of just "I like them" and "I don't care." I think deliberately misleading, given that the O.P.'s stance is "I like them."

 

There's really not much to else discuss. It's been established that the old F.C. scratches were unrealistic, and that's why they were removed. There's really no good reason to add them back into a simulator. The pro-scratches crowd is grasping at straws (e.g. trying to use civil airplanes as examples of military airplanes, and disregarding expert evidence on multiple subjects).

 

Also, did you seriously cite Battlefield 3's inclusion of a feature as an argument for that feature's inclusion in DCS? Really? Battlefield 3?! I suppose next you'll be arguing that, because BF3 gives the player the ability to eject from an aircraft and hijack an enemy aircraft in flight, it should be in DCS also?

Edited September 14, 2012 by Echo38

[cichlidfan]

this horse is beyond dead

 

 

Even BF3 has them...

 

:cry::cry::cry:

 

Which is a valid reference to reality in what way?

Edited September 14, 2012 by cichlidfan

[BlueRidgeDx]

Try watching that F-15 Raytheon Trophy video in HD, then tell me that it's unrealistic to have circular scratching/crazing. It's most certainly there when along the line-of-sight to any bright light source. It looks just like the hardwood floor of any basketball court or high school gym that's been polished with an orbital.

 

And aircraft transparencies, from PC-12s to F-16s are generally made out of the same polycarbonate materials, so a comparison between the two is perfectly valid. Anywhere a mechanic or crew chief has put some elbow grease removing removing bug guts and polishing a windscreen, you're going to see that circular scratch pattern. Simple as that.

[Echo38]

But, for reasons already mentioned, they don't constantly obstruct vision in the manner in which they did in old Lock On. Most of the time, they can't even be seen, I.R.L.

[Aries]

this horse is beyond dead

 

No, it's not!

 

I will shove a long fat stick in that horse's arse...

...and I will stick it so hard it will make the horse prance high and nicker in pain & surprise!!!

 

And it's eyes would spring out to the world full of small cockpit crazes flooded with tears...

 

So be it!

 

:D:D:D

Edited September 14, 2012 by Aries

[ENO]

Take a key and scuff your monitor... then you could imagine that it is in fact the visor on your helmet that is scratched.

 

Realism ++

[Aries]

Take a key and scuff your monitor... then you could imagine that it is in fact the visor on your helmet that is scratched.

 

Realism ++

 

There goes another thing "not simulated" in our super real sim... the frikkin visor... :music_whistling:

[shagrat]

But, for reasons already mentioned, they don't constantly obstruct vision in the manner in which they did in old Lock On. Most of the time, they can't even be seen, I.R.L.

but wasn't that the idea, exactly? To have realistic(!) crazing/scratches on the canopy. Not as obstructing as in LockOn, but subtle and just at the line of sight with a light source?

 

I find BlueRidgeDx's real life experience enlightening. I personally worked with transparent polycarbons and they rarely dont have any crazing after some time in the open, especially when it was extruded or bent. Crazing occurs after a certain time of exposure to ultraviolet light, which is part of the sunlight as well.

I would like to have an option to enable subtle(!) crazing reflections.... :)

[BlueRidgeDx]

First pic: a beautiful, crystal clear, optically perfect canopy. Right?

 

 

Second pic: Same canopy when you look toward a bright light source. Notice anything?

 

[shagrat]

looks definitely like crazing and scratches in this picture from a REAL LIFE airplane (a military fighter jet, if not mistaken). Anyone want to say again that "it is not realistic"? Anyone? :D

[Rainmaker]

Crazing is completely normal. Anyone who states or tries to argue otherwise has probably not worked on a fighter aircraft in their lifetime.

[Echo38]

looks definitely like crazing and scratches in this picture from a REAL LIFE airplane (a military fighter jet, if not mistaken). Anyone want to say again that "it is not realistic"? Anyone?

 

Again, as noted previously, this doesn't show up nearly as much to the human eye as it does to a camera, because of stereoscopic vision. It's the same reason that, I.R.L., you "see through" (around, really, but it looks transparent) most of the canopy bars while you're focusing on a distant object behind them, while in the sim they are fully opaque and very obstructing.

 

I don't object to a realistic, subtle canopy scratches effect which occurs only when & where it should, and which looks on the monitor exactly as it does to the naked eye in reality, but most of the people in this thread appear to be asking for the horrific blindness which was old LO:MAC's very unrealistic canopy scratches. (I had to mod it out ... only two mods on my old LO:MAC installation, one to improve cloud F.P.S. and the other to get rid of the ridiculous scratches.) No thanks--not in a realistic flight simulator.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Echo38

[Masterplus]

The Scatches is not a stupid idea.

 

I post immage from Falcon BMS: the first immage is the scratched canopy with the sun...

 

This is the same canopy with no sun. The scratches are not visible.

 

Falcon BMS hawe a old graphics motor... i think is not a problem in DCS...

 

(Sorry for my bad english :()

Edited September 16, 2012 by Masterplus

[HiJack]

First pic: a beautiful, crystal clear, optically perfect canopy. Right?

 

 

Second pic: Same canopy when you look toward a bright light source. Notice anything?

 

The ground crew just forgot to polish the back seat's canopy.