Tactics For A10 newbie

[MeRLiNttu]

Hey everybody,

This is my first post on these forums. I was a active pilot on the Free falcon and Open Falcon forums and flew countless hours of multiplayer missons on these sims. I first off wanted to say hI to this new community, and let everyone know that I am excited about getting to know the warthog!

 

However, as I begin I know there is a large learning curve ahead of me, I can familiarize myself with the aircraft\weapon systems, but....

 

I have no Idea about A10 AtoG tactics... Even normal cruise Alt/speed.

 

Is there a place where I can begin to read about these? (outside manual ofcourse)

 

For instance... What do you guys use as your hard deck if there is a Heavy SAM threat.

What alt do gun passes occour?

What is a good optimum cruising alt for a A10 assuming little to no payload?

What is a good combat ingress alt?

 

Thank you in advance anyone that responds..

BTW Sobek if you are still here WAS UP BUDDY?;)

[EtherealN]

Regarding SAM - depends on situation. However, it looks like you are thinking in falcon terms here; the A-10 isn't exactly something where you zoom up above the SAM cover. Depending on situation your hard deck might actualyl be ABOVE you - thinner air = longer range for enemy missiles, and of course altitude removes all chances for terrain masking.

 

If I have the option, I'll just NOE past the SAM threat and ignore it completely.

 

For general cruise purposes, angels 20 is an area I often use, which is attainable even on full load and high drag index as well.

 

And, again, there's not really such a thing as an ingress altitude. It all depends on the situation. You don't have the option of going into the transonic or supersonic so going up really high isn't as useful as it is for a Falcon, for example. Indeed, typically I'd ingress no higher than I have to to be safe from manpads/AAA, since the higher up you are the easier it is for enemy search radar to pick you up - not to forget for enemy fighters to find you and zoom in to kill you.

 

That's all personal preferences of mine though, not anything taken from real life application.

[EtherealN]

Oh, and I forgot: gun-passes. Not really a set altitude for them, what you want to do is have the appropriate angle. If you are attacking an MBT, your key is to pop-up, turn into the target, and be able to dive on their rear quarter with a 15-25 degree dive angle (to hit the vulnerable top). You'll then commence firing at 0.7 miles slant range and cease fire at 0.4 miles, then immediately break off.

 

Against soft targets you don't have to get as close (and shouldn't either). For columns of trucks and such you even have the option of disabling GUNPAC and "strafing" (that is, walking the CCIP pipper over the column during the salvo). In this case I'd say you're looking at a similar angle as for the MBT (to manage your CEP) but engage outside of 1 mile.

[kylania]

Welcome to DCS A-10C! :)

[cichlidfan]

Welcome also!;)

 

You might also want to give some of the military non-fiction books out there a look as well. They are generally concerning the A model but many of the tactics still apply. Especially where the gun is concerned.

 

They make good reading anyway. The first one that comes to mind is

 

A-10s over Kosovo: The Victory of Airpower over a Fielded Army as Told by the Airmen Who Fought in Operation Allied Force by USAF, Christopher E. Haave, Colonel and USAF, Phil M. Haun, Lieutenant Colonel

 

There are a few others, not a lot though.

[skarden]

A good place to start is this page as it has an absolute crapload of info on it Including most of the stuff you were asking about.

 

http://dcswiki.com/index.php?title=DCS:_A-10C_Tutorial_Collection

 

There's a lot there to go through so if ya get stuck just ask here,it's a great forum with a lot of people who are more then willing to help out someones who'd just starting in the hog.

 

Good luck!

[Schnarre Aggro]

you also can show up here tonight ;-)

=STP= is doing another "Comunititraining for DCS newcomer" tonight at 1800GMT.

 

check out the link and if u are interested - save a slot - sign in (pw: stp)

 

http://www.quasar-49th.de/briefing_tool/index.php?menu=4&id=11404&style=STP&tz=1

Edited September 15, 2011 by Schnarre [Aggro]
forgot the link damnit !

[Snoopy]

There is also a lot of info I put together using real world A-10 training material, see the link in my signature.

[thaisocom]

There are lot of nice documents in the forum. Just check them out. :D

[WildBillKelsoe]

For instance... What do you guys use as your hard deck if there is a Heavy SAM threat.

Mavericks. What you normally do, is that you wait for the SEAD and CAP boys to neutralize those threats. You can check them on the TAD, hook them, and slew TGP for VID on the kill, or audible chatter of AI elements announcing'' killed SAM at bulls #''.

 

Another thing, is to use your wingman as a duster and let him do the honors, or use him to spot those threats, so you can engage them.

 

Finally, you never drop under a 1000 over a tank or APC, or risk getting a system malfunction due to ground fire. Of note is not to exceed 430 KIAs on the HUD specially with heavy payload/overload. And not to pull hard on the stick at the same speeds (400+) or risk a wing snap.

 

What alt do gun passes occour?

2500 ~ 6000. And zooming in the camera inside the pit is normal and not considered cheating since your eye isnt like a real pilot, as well as resolution sometimes dont permit a VID except upclose.

 

What is a good optimum cruising alt for a A10 assuming little to no payload?

8000 for >25 mi

4000 for < 15 mi

And if there are terrain obstacles like mountains, you may expedite your climb to 10000 or as you see fit.

 

What is a good combat ingress alt?

Debatable, but I normally ingress at 8000 AGL and start with laser spot search for them SAMs.

[Rusty_M]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry I can't do more than try to make your arrival a pleasant one!

[MeRLiNttu]

Thank alot guys..

I would love to join up for some multiplayer flights but at the moment I need to get up to speed with the Avionics\Flight model. As soon as I feel comfortable that I can do the basics, I will jump into multi with whoever I can.

 

Another quick question... I hear alot of talk about CBU being bugged. From the research I did on the forum it seems that the CBU 87 is incapable of killing armored targets? The CBU 97 is modeled incorrectly (honestly thats expected by me, if this was done correctly it would be AMAZING).

So i guess my main question is What CBU are working properly on armor at the moment, and does spin rates, burst alt matter in weapon effectiveness in this simulator.

 

THANKS AGAIN

MeRLiN

[nomdeplume]

Another quick question... I hear alot of talk about CBU being bugged. From the research I did on the forum it seems that the CBU 87 is incapable of killing armored targets?

I wouldn't say "incapable", but it's not what it's designed for - it should be effective against lightly armored targets though.

 

The CBU 97 is modeled incorrectly (honestly thats expected by me, if this was done correctly it would be AMAZING).

Previously the CBU-97 was an over-powered -87. Currently (1.1.0.9) it's identical to the -87 (I think). They are working on modeling it more accurately and with much more detail; see this thread.

So i guess my main question is What CBU are working properly on armor at the moment,

I don't think any are especially useful against armor at the moment, so I'd stick with the PGMs or the gun. A dense pattern from a CBU might work well though (which is the default setting). Dropping them in pairs will probably also help.

and does spin rates, burst alt matter in weapon effectiveness in this simulator.

It affects the density of the explosions from the submunitions, which therefore affects the likelihood of enemies receiving damage, as well as the amount of damage they receive.

[rockyalexander]

'87s work fine for any tank in the sim, provided you set the HOF at 300 and bomb accurately. Don't expect to take out more than one tank per pair of bombs though. It's certainly not the most economical method of destroying armor, but it gets the job done.

[Charlie_01]

'87s work fine for any tank in the sim, provided you set the HOF at 300 and bomb accurately.Don't expect to take out more than one tank per pair of bombs though.

It's certainly not the most economical method of destroying armor, but it gets the job done.

 

Two CBUs for one tank only I don't believe you could say a job well done!!

CBUs purpose is for multiple target hitting so 1 CBU should mean a lot of target out, if they are each other near enough.

As is now, maybe is better to use a mk 84. If you are able to target in the centre of a group of tanks and IFVs you have a good chance to destroy/damage a lot of target.

I hope new right-modelled CBU-97 would be released soon to make again missions realistic as should be.

[Sarge55]

He didn't say "well" done.

[Crashdown]

Quick tip when engaging targets with the GAU-8: never ever underestimate a BMP-3.

Generally spealing the AI tends to be good at hitting your plane at low altitude, and the 30mm autocannon will rip your wings off in a second.

You can, however, still engage them with the GAU-8, as long as you do so from range and/or with the element of surprise.

Just beware of them: I've flown with plenty of pilots that told me "I'm a flying tank! I don't have to worry about those groundpounders." whenever I warned them to be careful when dealing with those IFVs. To their credits, they all learned... after they were shot down.

[Harzach]

Quick tip when engaging targets with the GAU-8: never ever underestimate a BMP-3.

 

Or a BMP-2.

 

One night I felt like running through Hideout real quick, just for grins. After the main threats were dealt with, I had my wingy RTB, then rolled in to clean up the stragglers with the GAU-8.

 

 

I managed to RTB on one engine and with no avionics.

[jazjar]

Whatever happened to paulrkii's combat emloyment guides? I swear I remember him releasing something akin to "Air to Air" and "Air to Ground" employment guides with things like tips for making attack runs and stuff like that. Can never find them now...

[Eddie]

Most of that kind of material is in the process of being re-written for the 476th (by Paul, myself and others). We haven't decided what (if any) will end up being released to the public though, but I certainly intend on releasing some A/G weapon employment material for the community even if it is just adapted versions of our weapon school material.

 

You'll find Paul's checklists & guides, and any other material produced by other 476th members at the link in my sig.

[GhostDog]

The hog basics guide by Andy Bush is pretty good. You can find it here

[Eddie]

Indeed, that is a very good article. Although it was written for Lock-On with the A-10A in mind it is just as applicable to DCS and the A-10C.

[Evil.Bonsai]

In mission, I orbot about 10-15miles out from target area, then search with tgp. If JTAC available, contact for target info. If a mission is just setup to a certain waypoint, I'll slew tgp to that point, search and designate, then ingress.

 

I've yet to be able to get familiar with using HUD TDC. Usually I don't see threats until I"m over them and looking out the side window. At that point, I'm more concerned with EGRESSING, then using tgp when at a safe distance.

 

Hmm...maybe I should try setting up a mission where a flight is in front of me, just so I can do this.

[WildBillKelsoe]

I have no Idea about A10 AtoG tactics... Even normal cruise Alt/speed.

 

I'd say hard deck 8k-15k. Cruise speed 240-260 KIAs.

 

Is there a place where I can begin to read about these? (outside manual ofcourse)

 

Plenty of war hero stories and actual GW1 accounts on Amazon. Search and you'll be surprised.

For instance... What do you guys use as your hard deck if there is a Heavy SAM threat.

 

You mean LORAD/MERAD/SHORAD/MANPAD? Rule of thumb: More altitude, more chance to pull G- straining maneuvers and save leeway for recovery. But the A-10 is designed to hug the ground, pop and shoot, then BAM!- disappear in the nick of time.

 

What alt do gun passes occour?

 

Gun passes in real life from 12000 feet downwards, but in-game, and due to limited graphics performance (for spotting tanks in-game is hard) 6-8k I recommend. My tactic is to not to discharge the gun on non-discernable targets (those you can't easily GUN thanks to /buildings/ kollateral Daimage/ or simply can't stand alone in the background of the HUD when on target..)

 

 

What is a good optimum cruising alt for a A10 assuming little to no payload?

10k

 

What is a good combat ingress alt?

6-8k

[Bushmanni]

A-10A Flight Manual has complete set of performance charts for everything you need to know. Here's the link for the manual. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17641138/A-10A%20Flight%20Manual.pdf

 

At page A4-8 is a chart for "OPTIMUM CRUISE ALTITUDE FOR SHORT-RANGE MISSIONS Standard Day". You need to know the aircrafts drag index to use the chart. There's a section in the manual for determining the drag index. Clean (no stores on wings) A-10 has drag index 0, Sidewinders + TGP + ECM will make it about 2 and fully loaded is about 8. With drag index 2 and aircraft weight before climbing to cruise altitude 30000lbs your optimum altitude for 50nm flight is 8000 feet. For 75nm it's 14000 and for 100nm 20000.

 

Climb with full throttle and keep speed at optimum climbing speed until at proper altitude. Optimum climbing speed is 200kts minus 1kts for each 1000 feet of your altitude above sea level, ie. at 10000 feet your optimum climbing speed is 190kts.

 

Your optimum cruise speed is determined by the AOA indicator. It has three white marks at the outer rim and each of them mark a value of special interest. The first mark (with lowest numerical value) is maximum range cruise, the second is maximum endurance and last one is optimal AOA for landing. Set your speed so that the AOA indicator is over the maximum range mark. Maximum range speed is usually about 230kts IAS.

 

If enemy doesn't have radar SAM systems you it's usually best to fly high to keep clear of short range IR systems which requires a altitude about 15000-16000 feet when above enemy. If you are going to attack from higher than your cruise altitude would be it's best to climb straight to the attack altitude before cruise so you can save a little bit of fuel. Flying higher is more economical but getting there uses lot's of fuel so you have the chart for finding the happy balance. If you are going to climb higher anyway it's better to do right at the beginning so you can take advantage of the higher cruise altitude and compensate for the extra fuel used in climb.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Bushmanni
fixed link