DCS World 2.0 and New Maps Discussion Thread

[NineLine]

But why? That just sounds like giving up before you've even started to me, never a mentality I'll understand or agree with.

 

Personally I'm going to remain hopeful that we will actually see the dream come true one day, even if it ends up not being ED that realises it.

 

There is technical and time restrictions with everything.... thats the way life is, if they had unlimited time and resources with no restrictions then I am sure you could have the entire planet modelled...

[Snoopy]

Hi everyone :)

 

As one of our first maps using the new map tools and DCS World 2, we are going to walk before we run. We also need to first get new maps into DCS World and get a good understanding of performance and file size issues that could arise. As such, future maps could certainly get much bigger if the development team has the time and resources to develop it (doing large urban areas, airbases, ports, etc. are a massive amount of work). We all realize that maps truly are “bigger is better”, but we also need to balance that with risk, resources, time, file size, etc.

 

Thanks for posting Matt! Eddie and I understand, I think people forget Eddie and I were testers for multiple years. I may not know the internal details of development but I know and understand it's not going to happen overnight.

 

Personally I'd spend more on theatres and other elements of the sim than I ever will on aircraft and I know a not insignificant number who are the same.

 

Most definitely!!!!

[WRAITH]

DCS World Global MAP System Supporter

 

Hi everyone :)

 

As one of our first maps using the new map tools and DCS World 2, we are going to walk before we run. We also need to first get new maps into DCS World and get a good understanding of performance and file size issues that could arise. As such, future maps could certainly get much bigger if the development team has the time and resources to develop it (doing large urban areas, airbases, ports, etc. are a massive amount of work). We all realize that maps truly are “bigger is better”, but we also need to balance that with risk, resources, time, file size, etc.

 

Hello WAGS,

 

Thanks for dropping in and posting this good news. The mid portion of text is great stuff all the best!

 

Cheers,

 

:beer:

[Snoopy]

I still want a Huge sea map, dotted with a few identical islands, for Multiplayer use.

 

Nate

 

Hawaii and hundreds of miles of ocean sounds great to me. You'd have Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam not to mention miles of beaches to fly the Huey next to and check out the tourists ;)

[SkateZilla]

Hopefully it'll happen, there is potentially a very decent amount of revenue in developing theatres. Personally I'd spend more on theatres and other elements of the sim than I ever will on aircraft and I know a not insignificant number who are the same.

 

there's a lot of displaced terrain guys from Thirdwire :) trust me.

 

I still want a Huge sea map, dotted with a few identical islands, for Multiplayer use.

 

Nate

 

 

Hawaii and hundreds of miles of ocean sounds great to me. You'd have Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam not to mention miles of beaches to fly the Huey next to and check out the tourists ;)

 

DCS Wake Island :)

[NoJoe]

Hawaii and hundreds of miles of ocean sounds great to me. You'd have Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam not to mention miles of beaches to fly the Huey next to and check out the tourists ;)

 

I'd love to see that in DCS World! I remember the training maps for Graphsim's Hornet series were the Hawaiian Islands. I've shot down so many simulated DC-10s there... :doh:

[Weta43]

New Zealand + 1000KMx1000KM of South Pacific East of it

 

I've siad that over and over...

:)

 

Same land area as a 500x500 km map, but 1600 km long (2 separate 800km long islands !)

 

Maybe add the Chathams as an anchorage for carriers etc & get a 700km commute (1400km round trip) with only 30x30 km of extra land :) (take a little liberty & extend the runway/ramps slightly)

 

Or NZ + Tasmania ?

 

Still - what we're getting will be a good start :)

[Exorcet]

Hi everyone :)

 

As one of our first maps using the new map tools and DCS World 2, we are going to walk before we run. We also need to first get new maps into DCS World and get a good understanding of performance and file size issues that could arise. As such, future maps could certainly get much bigger if the development team has the time and resources to develop it (doing large urban areas, airbases, ports, etc. are a massive amount of work). We all realize that maps truly are “bigger is better”, but we also need to balance that with risk, resources, time, file size, etc.

 

Thanks for the official word. That's quite reassuring to read. Having to take first steps is very understandable, if we have to wait for big maps that's OK with me as long as it's acknowledged that they will be considered for implementation at some point.

 

If I might ask, when it comes to balancing, have varying levels of detail within the same map been considered? Those units that tend require higher detail also tend to be the ones that cover the least distance.

 

A possible map strategy would be to pick ~5 (?) centers of high detail intended for use with CA/choppers with a medium detail area surrounding and a lower detailed perimeter to use as mission starting points.

 

I also wouldn't mind just buying a bunch of maps that are next to each and other and can be connected, though if maps aren't announced before hand this could be difficult to coordinate.

[JawsyJaws]

If ED is ever going to add some type of player controlled naval combat; I wonder if underwater terrain will be modeled somewhat, if at least somewhat primitively.

[Paganus]

Thanks for the official word. That's quite reassuring to read. Having to take first steps is very understandable, if we have to wait for big maps that's OK with me as long as it's acknowledged that they will be considered for implementation at some point.

 

If I might ask, when it comes to balancing, have varying levels of detail within the same map been considered? Those units that tend require higher detail also tend to be the ones that cover the least distance.

 

A possible map strategy would be to pick ~5 (?) centers of high detail intended for use with CA/choppers with a medium detail area surrounding and a lower detailed perimeter to use as mission starting points.

 

I also wouldn't mind just buying a bunch of maps that are next to each and other and can be connected, though if maps aren't announced before hand this could be difficult to coordinate.

 

He talks about scaling in this post.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1902741&postcount=4

[Bushmanni]

Does every square kilometer need to be built to the highly detailed tanker standards or would it be feasible to make ground battle areas more detailed and surrounding empty deserts/wilderness/irrelevant areas less detailed so that same map can cater for both tank and air units.

[badaboom]

there's a lot of displaced terrain guys from Thirdwire :) trust me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DCS Wake Island :)

:thumbup: Or can you imagine a DCS 2.0/EDGE Oahu with a detailed Modern Pearl Harbour?

[shagrat]

Hopefully it'll happen, there is potentially a very decent amount of revenue in developing theatres. Personally I'd spend more on theatres and other elements of the sim than I ever will on aircraft and I know a not insignificant number who are the same.

I am for example! ...and I said before: consider the possibility of a generated "stand-in" terrain/sea covering the whole world, which connects the upcoming maps. Then go on in detailling area by area. Possibly in conjunction with 3rd parties!

It worked pretty well for FSX. A major advantage could be detailling small areas in the US and Europe with airbases where deploying forces can start from. Another is the option to connect for example Georgia/Caucasus to middle east and later Afghanistan/Pakistan/India and later China/Korea/Vietnam etc. Or extend west to the Mediterranean/north Africa/Egypt...

In my opinion a good way to cater a step by step approach and makes the workload more manageable.

Edited September 11, 2014 by shagrat

[siipperi]

You obviously forgot who you're talking to when it comes to Nevada. I'm not going to argue with you because you will just delete my post or ban me.

 

My point is most of the middle east is empty desert. If ED wants to spend time making each grain of sand detailed so be it.

 

Just an answer really to take part of the discussion that have been going on for few pages:

 

I find it ridiculous that people are comparing nevada small area that they are developing to absolutely ridiculously huge area some people suggested and comparing that all the middle east is desert. Well lets me put this into a perspective using map that were used earlier ( http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz218/paulrkiii/NewMapWish_zps2936ea47.png~original ) Nevada as a state have total population around 2.7 million, meanwhile area that was used covers multiple countries and could potentially cover over 100 million people living there. But the argument that you don't need to cover rural areas as accurate as city areas - totally agree, that would be huge waste of time and as ED have stated they aren't trying to make 1:1 representation of cities or towns. However that area covers cities such as Kuwait City, Tehran, Baghdad, Damascus and so on that are superior on size compared to Las Vegas.

 

I find comments here on forums extremely generalizing against Middle East countries and most of people make comment just based of their view of one area meanwhile ignoring totally urban areas. Don't want to offend people but I think many people have really narrow view what kind of area Middle East really is.

 

That said I think most if not all people would love to see that kind of map in DCS but is it realistic even with lower fidelity than Nevada is going to be? I don't think so. Amount of Work one single big capital on that area would require from ED would be more than doing huge parts of Nevada map.

 

 

About possible F/A 18C map:

So it sounds its truly going to be Persian Gulf. That sounds extremely good and taking to account that ED already have said you can project maps and clip them together I don't see any reason why they wouldn't expand that map in the future. That said I take 300x300 area that can be linked together every year than wait for huge 1500x1500km map every 5 years.

[shagrat]

No offense meant! The general idea is to detail only areas as airports and specific points of interest (Palaces etc.) I guess even Las Vegas uses "templates" to fill in urban areas on the outskirts or city parts. That is what would do a great job on larger cities in the middle east as well. I guess nobody expects to roll through cities in tanks and see his brothers home where it's supposed to be like in Google street view???

Have the main roads net and fill in with procedural suburban areas, old Arabic quarters, modern buildings blocks, etc.

 

One of the issues Wags talked about is filesize, defined by texture detail and grids. The major desert areas don't require a high detail grid or at least you can reuse a lot of textures for vast areas of desert, just detailling hills, wadis, rock cliffs etc.

 

I agree to the step by step approach, though. Expending an existing map every year or half a year sounds intriguing!

[siipperi]

No offense meant!

 

 

Im only offended by the ignorance. And don't live there or have any connections there so nothing personal.

But what I meant by my comment people need to put that into perspective before starting argument on something silly like that. Area would need extremely high amount of buildings (even if generic) and roads compared to anything we have now.

 

 

But all good. Think people! :thumbup:

[shagrat]

There was no ignorance involved. Compared to a map of Germany with 86 million people living in dense populated areas, more or less completely covered by cities, villages, roads, railways and industry, despite it's much larger size, the middle east is less complex and populated to start with.

So if you choose between Middle East and Europe at the same size the middle east is much less work...

[NineLine]

Im only offended by the ignorance. And don't live there or have any connections there so nothing personal.

But what I meant by my comment people need to put that into perspective before starting argument on something silly like that. Area would need extremely high amount of buildings (even if generic) and roads compared to anything we have now.

 

 

But all good. Think people! :thumbup:

 

 

Yes, even when using generic buildings, and obviously you would want to use some duplicates where you could in order to cut down on development time, you are still looking at a huge task, so lets say your huge map included Baghdad, you would want to try and match the overall look of the city, pick out some of the distinct buildings and model those, then roads, bridges, etc. Just to get Baghdad looking reasonably well, could take quite some time. Again, even using a few generic buildings for the lesser important areas. It doesnt have to be a google street view perfect match, but if I am driving down a street in Baghdad, I want to have the immersive feeling that I am in Baghdad, at least a reasonable one...

 

I dont want to get to a point where we are seeing maps with no 3D definition and the cities burned into the textures on the ground again, that is so 90's... :)

Edited September 11, 2014 by NineLine

[VincentLaw]

That said I take 300x300 area that can be linked together every year than wait for huge 1500x1500km map every 5 years.

1500x1500 is 25 times larger than 300x300, not 5 times. You would need to wait 25 years for that map.

[ViFF]

any news on the release of the SDK?

 

+1

 

Write me on the side that says there is no such thing as a half assed map. Who says you have to go down to the detail of every single house and building and street? thats insane and a waste of time.

 

There is a gigantic resource of manhours in this community that is simply being left untapped. People who are willing to put in their time voluntarily and create maps for the sake of creating maps to enrich the experience of their communities, not for the sake of making a profit!

 

For the life of me I can't understand why this is being ignored.

 

The best example is IL2 Sturmovik 1946 with its very very limited flexibility and texture and memory constraints for map making. Yet some of the most beautiful and detailed maps were all user created. People like Oknivas, Jiri, Gilb, Redko are truly gifted individuals and have the time on their hands to do the work.

 

Look at all these maps available for IL2 1946 with HSFX Mod:

http://www.derrierloisirs.fr/il2/Maps/visualisation7/map_visu_alpha.html

 

In IL2 1946 you have the HSFX Mod that can be simply turned on or off with the JSGME has some of the most beautiful maps like Battle of Moscow by Oknivas, Spain maps by Jiri.

 

S!

[sobek]

How can you say this is being ignored when not even ED themselves are fully ready to insert a map they created into the new engine?

[ViFF]

How can you say this is being ignored when not even ED themselves are fully ready to insert a map they created into the new engine?

 

Indeed it should not be misinterpreted.

 

I would just like to know if ED plan to release some serious and useful tools for map building and if they are aware that it is in their benefit to do so.

 

S!

 

ps- love your sig! :)

Edited September 11, 2014 by ViFF

[NineLine]

Indeed it should not be misinterpreted.

 

I would just like to know if they plan to release the tools for map building and if they are aware that it is in their benefit to do so.

 

S!

 

It is really to early to tell how they will handle the tools.

[NRG-Vampire]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2172633#post2172633

 

can you see it guys ? :bounce:

ED is listening and watching our wishes :)

Theater Maps Wish List No.1: Persian Gulf :thumbup:

 

To All

 

We look for photos of airports from list below:

 

Dhafra AFB

Bandar Abbas AFB

Bandar Lengeh Airport

Fujarirah Airport

Havadarya Airport

Qeshm Airport

Khasab Airport

Abu Musa Island AFB

Lesser Tunb Island AFB

Greater Tunb Island AFB

Dubai World Central Airport

Dubai International Airport

Sharjah International Airport

 

At first the runway's lighting system is needed.

 

hopefully nothing is subject to change on this project :D

 

 

[cichlidfan]

Why did you post a link and then quote almost the entire post that you linked (pictures and all)?