Would you pay $500 for a flight sim?

[OutOnTheOP]

Ok, so a lot of people are arguing over a question that wasn't posed.

 

The question was "would YOU pay $500 for a flight sim?", not "would a $500 flight sim be a viable business model?"

 

Are there people who WOULD pay $500 for the right software? Yes. I have dumped easily $350 into software, additional licenses, and updates for Steel Beasts. I have dumped a couple thousand into DCS A-10 (though this was in the form of a TMWH, touchscreen monitors, extra graphics cards et al rather than the software itself). I plan to drop a few thousand more on building a simpit. But then I also spend easily $800 a month at the rifle range on ammunition. So it would be silly for me to not be willing to spend half that on software that I can use month after month.

 

However, if you want to argue over whether a $500 sim would be successful... well, I don't know. On the one hand, you lose a lot of "casual gamer" purchases. I would contend that you're probably not getting that many of those right now anyhow. Even with the "casual" mode in DCS, the "casual gamers" are going to go elsewhere for their purchases. They're much more likely to buy Ace Combat or Jane's Advanced Strike Fighter or similar, because those games offer multiple "cool" airplanes to "fly", a cinematic experience, and other gimmicks that attract the casual gamer.

 

There IS a market for an expensive simulator. eSim is already exploiting that market with Steel Beasts Pro PE. Yes, it's primary market is the military sector. Funny, seems to me that's DCS's primary market as well; both DCS:BS and DCS:WH were initially developed as government purchases.

 

Where does the price point for a successful commercial simulator end? I would say around the $150-200 price point. At $150-$190, a purchaser is likely to think along the lines of "oh, that's the cost of just two normal games". At $500, they're more likely to think "that's half a thousand dollars!"

 

The MOST successful method, I think, would be essentially what ED is already doing (which is essentially what Rise of Flight does as well): release MODULES of individual pieces of equipment which all interoperate in a common game engine.

 

Unfortunately, DCS has been doing so way too slowly. While ROF has been releasing modules at a pretty rapid rate, allowing them all to function together as one large game, the DCS releases are so slow in coming that there have been major changes in the game engine (or in underlying computer technology) between them, forcing major changes in the older module(s) between releases to ensure compatibility. At the rate modules are coming out, by the time we see a full virtual battlefield, DCS:BS will be so old it will be like trying to play a co-op game with one player on a supercomputer and the other on an Atari 2600.

 

And yes, I am aware that WWI aircraft require much less programming and development than modern aircraft and equipment. The point is, if they ever want to realize the "virtual battlefield", they need to start pumping out product faster. They need to realize that then they would see a synergetic affect; people would buy modules based not only on the quality of the module they're buying, but because people WANT TO FIGHT AGAINST HUMAN OPPONENTS.

 

Maybe ED should consider providing SDKs to select companies to start developing different "lines" of modules; like having the eSim guys develop a line of tank modules and have Sonanalyst make naval modules. (yes, I know, the game engine differences means that the eSim guys can't just directly port their already-developed software directly into DCS. My point is, get more folks aboard).

 

Even if by doing so ED loses the opportunity to make their OWN tank/ ship modules, a 5% royalty on someone else's module is still better than 100% ownership of a product they never get around to producing.

[Shein]

That's rather callous and disrespectful of him to say that this isn't a hobby or worth that kind of money. A hobby is a hobby, people get just as much enjoyment out of simming, hockey, knitting, fishing, hunting, whatever. People like what they like.

 

Down to your question: if it was completely faithful, yes. I would pay that kind of money.

 

Then again I'm graduating from flight school this may and I view this sort of thing as keeping my stick and rudder skills fresh.

 

...oh yeah, and its the most fun I've had with any sort of "game" ever. I've all but stopped playing xbox, first person shooters, etc.

I dropped 120 on a trackIR, 60 on a saitek X52 and I've been having a blast for almost a year straight now with BS, A10, and FC2. Worth every penny.

 

Then again I look at things this way: not is it cheap or not, but is the *money spent worth what I get*

Sure maybe 30 bucks is cheap for headphones but I dont need new headphones.

On the other hand, $250 is a lot for a new cell phone, but considering how much I use that cell phone its worth all of that and then some. Follow my logic?

[Beagle One]

No, I would not pay 500$ for a simulation simply because it's over budget which remains for me after rent, food, food for the dog, fuel, insurance and car, going out, club fees, acquisitions and other hobbies are paid.

[dooom]

This is just hypothetical :

 

I would spend 500 (even with the 1.1.1.1 DCS version) if this would include some "expand costumer service" -- I hope you get my point.

 

For example:

You are a "power user" that plan to build a own cockpit... ,ect. and you want to make sure that you get "special" service to solve the problems you encounter.

 

( just a example where I would like to see a support)

and here is a actual problem I'm facing:

I want to add FFB to my rudder in BS2 - but DCS only 'talks' to two axis at the same time....

 

And here is the crucial point:

I wouldn't only expect a answer if this is possible or not...

I would expect that it will be solved if there is no appropriate answer for my problem.. and that it will be also done in a short time-span. ( as long I ask for nothing impossible - but who knows when this line is crossed ?!)

 

 

This is an interesting thought... I recall when I used to play WWIIOL: Battleground Europe that they had what was called a "Builders Program".

Essentially, the program allowed customers to pay a premium price for the product for expanded services.

In response to community requests for ways to show greater support for the developers and future of the game, a new program was created in the fall of 2003.

 

Players are now able to choose to participate in a $199.99 (Bronze), $500 (Silver), $1,000 (Gold) or $2,000 (Platinum) subscription level offer. Special recognition has been afforded those players as our way of saying "thank you" for their incredible show of support.

If you would like to participate in the "WWII Online Builders" program, please contact us. Payment for program participation will be arranged to suit individuals. Squad/Unit/Brigade participation is welcomed.

 

If i recall correctly, the Platinum builders had access to specific skins recognizing their contribution as well as the ability to place an "in game" structure with their name on it... I also think their name was added to a bridge in Dinant within the world.

 

Just look at he amount of players that shelled out extra cash... http://www.battlegroundeurope.com/index.php/about-the-game/builders

The point is - people DO pay more.... sometimes for very little in return. :huh:

 

Is this low hanging financial fruit being left on the tree among the Flight sim developers?

[PoleCat]

No I would not pay 500 for a game. Ask your hockey player friend if he would pay that much for a puck. Cause that is about the right percentage of what a puck is to his hobby to compare what a particular game/sim is to ours.

 

The systems we purchase to run these sims is like all his equipment and the extras. The sim is like the puck. You can't play without it but that doesn't make it worth 500 beans either.

 

Silly question and comparison. Miles apart. (Maybe he got hit in the head a few too many times with the puck to even ask such a crazy question)? :music_whistling:

 

Out

Edited January 21, 2012 by PoleCat

[213]

no. and there's no such thing as a perfect sim.

[Conure]

If I could get a PMDG level airline simulation for the whole world, that runs well with realistic graphics then it wouldn't be an issue. I think I've spent more than the amount you're stating on FSX as it is.

 

Besides, flight sims teach real world skills - understanding complex data and concepts, flow processes, situation awareness etc etc etc.

 

It's not wasted money if you enjoy it.

[weasel75]

Would I pay $500 for a sim ?

Yes , if it gave me free hand jobs everytime I played it

 

You are looking for this: ButtKicker :D

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Yes I would pay $500 for a high fidelity MiG-29S or Su-25SM simulator. BTW, I bought multiple copies of LO/FC/BS and A-10 and am inching towards $500 ...

 

However, we already have military grade simulators for $50 (or less). Don't forget that real Ka-50 and A-10C pilots use this same simulators we do, for their real life pilot training.

[bluepilot76]

I bet the Ice hockey guy is over on the Ice-Hockey-Jockey forum right now, 6 pages into a thread about why his crazy friend spends all his time and money on his computer in a dark room pretending to be a pilot when he could be going to the game, drinking beer and getting laid.

 

I would pay $500 for a REALLY good sim too.

[metalnwood]

I would certainly for the right sim. The only problem with a sim priced at $500 would be that a lot would not and good multiplayer would be a requirement for a $500 sim. Catch 22 on the multiplayer when so many will not buy it at that price.

[PoleCat]

You are looking for this: ButtKicker :D

 

I think not! Not when you can have this: http://www.ivibe.com/

 

Now supported in DCS Black Shark 1.01c. Looks like it will also be added to the other DCS titles eventually.

 

This thing uses real force feedback data not sound like the buttkicker. It features a controller (USB)and a seat cushion with 6 high quality force feedback actuators in seperate zones left knee, right knee,left hip, right hip, upper back, lower back. These are very powerful and easily capable of shaking the hell out of you , your chair, the room and maybe on max the house too. All the vibrations are completely customizable as well.

 

Out

[weasel75]

I would certainly for the right sim. The only problem with a sim priced at $500 would be that a lot would not and good multiplayer would be a requirement for a $500 sim. Catch 22 on the multiplayer when so many will not buy it at that price.

 

Yep, so as said before, a subscription-based sim (maybe also granting exclusive access to "certified" servers (with close monitoring to prevent cheating)) might be the way to go. This might be a big win for the company (a steady income), while also allowing the player/customer to support the company as long as he has something in return (server+constant updates).

 

Now imagine that every player/customer has access to a limited number (one? two?) of aircraft-types for a certain time-span (month?) while also allowing a free choice for those who are willing to pay an extra-fee.

 

Yep, much business-talk, but as a user, I like to have some benefit (reliable server) and I don't mind to pay extra, as long as I see what I am paying for (extra aircraft).

 

Just some ideas around a sustainable business-model, but yeah, I'd pay the 500 bucks :)

[dooom]

wow

 

"Subscription based server".

 

VERY interesting idea. if it ran exclusive developer missions, had stats and took advantage of some very complicated missions with resources etc...

 

heck i could see myself paying a little extra to have access to that.

 

not a bad idea at all.....

[jctrnacty]

100 dollars, no problem here, 500 dollars is too much for me.

[metalnwood]

It would probably become a very pirated sim if it was very good and was $500.

[PeterP]

It would probably become a very pirated sim if it was very good and was $500.

 

at 500 I would expect expand customer support like I mentioned already somewhere here - and a dongle like steel beast has.

Edited January 22, 2012 by PeterP

[OutOnTheOP]

You mean... there's other ways to fight software piracy than shutting down the internet?!?!?

 

 

....

 

 

(totally tongue-in-cheek, by the by. I have SB Pro, so I'm familiar with the dongle. And last I checked, SB isn't a heavily pirated game, despite the $150+ price tag. So it must be working for them)

[BIGNEWY]

are you people crazy ?

 

LOL

[JG14_Smil]

You do know it would still have bugs? :) Would probably still see childish TK'ers while online too.

 

People used to spend much more than that to fly online back in the `90's.

Edited January 25, 2012 by JG14_Smil

[jctrnacty]

The Question is if i want pay 500 dollars to just buy sim or buy sim and support sim developers company.

 

To support ED i prefer to have a DONATE button next to A-10c BS and LOCKO FC2 button and be able to send them my 10 euro or dollars every month or 120 per year. No problem for me.

 

I think they should consider this for those who want to donate.

[cichlidfan]

To support ED i prefer to have a DONATE button...120 per year

 

Now an 'Invest' button might catch my interest but then the numbers would be somewhat larger.:D

[Buzpilot]

Only problem with 500$, is that number of buyers would drop to 1%, and we get a sim worth only 5$.

A good sim can be free, with a possibility to pay for expansions, like RoF, there you get upgrades for free and you only pay for extra cockpits.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Buzpilot

[bluepilot76]

If I had a lot of free time I would probably pay $500 for rise of flight.

[pixelpilot]

I dont think how much we spend on our chosen hobbies has anything to do with thier value to us. If anything the price of a hobby defines how popular it is and therefor how exploited by the people who make money from it, it is. We, with maybe less mainstream hobbies, are probably getting more quality for our cash as the products and services need to be of a higher standard. The fact that your friend mentions playing hockey and watching would make it a fairer comparison if you asked how much you spend on every thing to do with aviation that you do. Someone who went to airshows or flew model aircraft as well as simming could easily spend $1000s a year.