EagleEye Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) ?!?! But trees aren't solid in real life!?!? Why would you want solid tress in DCS - That's just bizarre. Nate When walking or driving into a tree they are kind of solid for me... I think you know what I meant with this question.:music_whistling: (so I have my answer right now:( and thanks for answering to me like I´m a newcomer) Edited April 30, 2012 by EagleEye Deutsche DCS-Flughandbücher SYSSpecs: i7-4790K @4GHz|GA-Z97X-SLI|16GB RAM|ASUS GTX1070|Win10 64bit|TrackIR5|TM Warthog/Saitek Pro Pedals
Nate--IRL-- Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 (so I have my answer right now:() No you don't - I don't know either, sorry. Nate Ka-50 AutoPilot/stabilisation system description and operation by IvanK- Essential Reading
EagleEye Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 The ghost tree effect makes sense from a sim perspective. If you wanted to be able to collide with any individual tree in the game, imagine the collision detection computation requirements for all those thousands of trees. It's not something we really need, maybe with some around the airport, but not for every tree on the map. I understand that Rossi, but DCS is expanding to ground units in the future and I only wanted to know if there is any sign of how tree`s/forest`s are "treated" in the new terrain engine.:) Deutsche DCS-Flughandbücher SYSSpecs: i7-4790K @4GHz|GA-Z97X-SLI|16GB RAM|ASUS GTX1070|Win10 64bit|TrackIR5|TM Warthog/Saitek Pro Pedals
112th_Rossi Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 Yes that is something to think about. I would imagine th EDGE engine would know what is a priority for the type of simulator you were flying. Say for example you're driving a tank, hit detection for ground objects would be more important than say for a jet who is predominantly in the air.
Wynthorpe Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 EDGE is the name for ED's next generation terrain engine - of which Nevada is the first implementation. Nate So happy they are updating the terrain engine! Its great having such a nice looking A10, then such horrible ground environment.
hitman Posted April 30, 2012 Posted April 30, 2012 We've had the same terrain for over 12 years, its getting kind of old and worn out. Like my mom.
213 Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 The ghost tree effect makes sense from a sim perspective. If you wanted to be able to collide with any individual tree in the game, imagine the collision detection computation requirements for all those thousands of trees. It's not something we really need, maybe with some around the airport, but not for every tree on the map. other sims that have thousands of trees can do this, why not dcs?
Moa Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) We've had the same terrain for over 12 years, its getting kind of old and worn out. Like my mom. Lol. Own goal! Back on topic. Collision detection with trees might have been too hard in the past but shouldn't be too expensive now (relatively speaking), since CPUs have lots of horsepower these days. You don't have to detect collisions against thousands of trees, you just have to detect against the bounding boxes of hundreds of trees in the vicinity of the aircraft (assuming there is a data structure that segments groups of trees by geographical location - which I'm sure ED must do already since their progressive terrain loading is pretty nice). And when you get very close to a tree you don't need to use bounding boxes anymore. Libraries such as the Open-Source Bullet (bulletphysics.org) can do a lot of the work for you (I'm using JBullet, the Java version). Edited May 1, 2012 by Moa
statrekmike Posted May 1, 2012 Posted May 1, 2012 I just really hope this new terrain does not murder my poor PC, I can run DCS A-10C and BS2 just fine, I hope the same holds true for the Nevada map and Edge terrain.
chromium Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 other sims that have thousands of trees can do this, why not dcs? First: we need for every tree... if you're an helo pilot :P Second: could maybe set a distance-ratio from every airframe (es. 50 mt) in witch the collision have to be calculated... but it's just thinking :) Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/ Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.
sorcer3r Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Will Edge make the TGP-FLIR more flirish? :D [sIGPIC]http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b582/sorcerer17/sorcf16-b_zpsycmnwuay.gif[/sIGPIC]
cichlidfan Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Will Edge make the TGP-FLIR more flirish? :D I don't see how. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
Ogrex Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 A nice way to implement some form of tree damage would be to have the forests behave like elevated blocks of terrain, so you have a whole forest with a few hundred polygons and if you fly inside of the "forest block" some pre-determined damage gets done to your airframe, like wings cliped + 1 engine fires and some gashed metal decals. This doesn't deal with individual tree's in towns and such, but is much more achievable than trying individual tree collision edit: Like a 20-40ft high transparent plateau in the shape of the forest
Buckram Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Knowing ED, they will optimise EDGE so well, that an upgrade in hardware may prove to be unneccesary..... But I am looking forward to this greatly! Achieving World Peace - One 2000lb JDAM at a time. Intel i7 9700K, 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200Mhz , ASUS ROG STRIX GTX 1080 TI OC, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Oculus Rift S. ~ Proud Member of the 62nd Fighting Falcons ~ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Slayer Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Wonder if any of the DX11 stuff will make it into EDGE. Was hinted at and a few screen shots shown with bump mapping and such before A-10 came out....then all references quickly removed and no further info. Anyways the limited info we have so far suggests that the old terrain won't be reworked. Only Nevada which is a bummer unless you just want to do Red Flag exercise... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] System Specs Intel I7-3930K, Asrock EXTREME9, EVGA TITAN, Mushkin Chronos SSD, 16GB G.SKILL Ripjaws Z series 2133, TM Warthog and MFD's, Saitek Proflight Combat pedals, TrackIR 5 + TrackClip PRO, Windows 7 x64, 3-Asus VS2248H-P monitors, Thermaltake Level 10 GT, Obutto cockpit
The Flying Goose Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 The ghost tree effect makes sense from a sim perspective. If you wanted to be able to collide with any individual tree in the game, imagine the collision detection computation requirements for all those thousands of trees. It's not something we really need, maybe with some around the airport, but not for every tree on the map. Lol. Own goal! Back on topic. Collision detection with trees might have been too hard in the past but shouldn't be too expensive now (relatively speaking), since CPUs have lots of horsepower these days. You don't have to detect collisions against thousands of trees, you just have to detect against the bounding boxes of hundreds of trees in the vicinity of the aircraft (assuming there is a data structure that segments groups of trees by geographical location - which I'm sure ED must do already since their progressive terrain loading is pretty nice). And when you get very close to a tree you don't need to use bounding boxes anymore. Libraries such as the Open-Source Bullet (bulletphysics.org) can do a lot of the work for you (I'm using JBullet, the Java version). Sure it seems like it would take a lot of CPU horsepower. But lets see... Microsoft's Combat FS3 did an acceptable job... in 2002. Sure the FM was crap and so was almost everything else by any of today's standards, but the tree collisions worked and it was a large scale map. I'm just saying, it's not impossible, perhaps just some programming/ design ingenuity. Q6600 @ 2.4 GHz, Sapphire 5870, TM Warthog, 4 GB RAM, Windows 7
cichlidfan Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Rise of Flight has collidable trees but then they have other areas where they are limited so it may well be that these kinds of things have to be weighed against one another in order not to hammer performance too much. But then I am just on the outside looking in.;) ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
213 Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Wonder if any of the DX11 stuff will make it into EDGE. Was hinted at and a few screen shots shown with bump mapping and such before A-10 came out....then all references quickly removed and no further info. Anyways the limited info we have so far suggests that the old terrain won't be reworked. Only Nevada which is a bummer unless you just want to do Red Flag exercise... bump/normal mapping existed long before dx11. any screenshots showing it doesn't necessarily indicate dx11.
MadTommy Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 ?!?! But trees aren't solid in real life!?!? Why would you want solid tress in DCS - That's just bizarre. Nate Tell that to Marc Bolan :cry: i5-3570K @ 4.5 Ghz, Asus P8Z77-V, 8 GB DDR3, 1.5GB GTX 480 (EVGA, superclocked), SSD, 2 x 1680x1050, x-fi extreme music. TM Warthog, Saitek combat pro pedals, TrackIR 4
chromium Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 It could be a solution that the sim use trees as single "solid" vertical string instead of a complex 3D model. Another important issue that we're having is that the enemy can see you throu the trees and they can also fire at you... while you can't see them. I believe it's partially correct that they can see you, but I don't believe that it's confortable for a ground vehicle to lock and shoot at you under the woods. As said before, thinking as an helicopter simmer having a degree of "collidable logic", even simplified, it could be a good leap forward :) But It's only my thought and I'm really really happy about the sim as it is :) Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/ Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.
Togg Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) Originally Posted by 112th_Rossi The ghost tree effect makes sense from a sim perspective. If you wanted to be able to collide with any individual tree in the game, imagine the collision detection computation requirements for all those thousands of trees. You don't compute for all trees at the same time. And I suppose that you can do that only in an area where the aircraft can collide. And you can simplify the calculation assuming a form like a cube instead of a whole tree for instance. Edited May 3, 2012 by Togg [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] https://github.com/Togg-streamdeck/dcs
KillarZ Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 ED makes their own Outerra engine I know DCS edge and Nevada terrain hasn't been released yet, so this might sound like an ignorant post. I was thinking about the 3rd party terrain and theaters people will develope when the tools get released. Than I started thinking on the reason FSX is so popular. 1.) the mods and 2.) the ability to fly anywhere in the world. Well lets be honest the terrain in DCS could use a whole make over and EDGE I'm sure will do just that because it looks promising. But as I said I know EDGE hasn't even been released yet but what about the possiblity of ED creating its very own World engine like outerra but of course itd be optimized to fit DCS needs. They could purchase the Outerra engine but it might not be of interest in their personal needs and they would have no control over the engine I'm assuming. I understand that this would be a massive project but if ED would create something like that DCS would most likely be 10X as popular as it is now. Any thoughts or commets on this idea and why it will/will not work. (negative or positve)
jmod Posted May 9, 2012 Author Posted May 9, 2012 I'd like to see ED making EDGE as fluent and efficient as Outerra engine! By supporting DirectX 11 and multi CPU - GPU, EDGE will be the best engine for WWIII (Rise of Flight for WWI, and IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover for WWII)! Let's fly together for the sake of peace :)
Weta43 Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 It's a product of having scalable graphics. Imagine you're playing online using your 5 year old machine against someone using a top of the line gaming rig. You have graphics turned right down, they have them turned right up. That means they can see more trees than you... How do you deal with collisions with those trees ? Does the person on the old rig collide with trees they can't see ? If only the minimum number of trees (those visible on low graphics settings) are collidable, then the person with the low settings can see the clear areas between these trees and can fly through those, while the person with the graphics turned up can't tell which areas are 'tree free' for the other player till they see them fly through trees that to the better rig are indistinguishable to those that cause collisions... Everyone gets "High" settings ? (some people can't play) Everyone gets "Low" settings ? (People with a high end card quite rightly call foul) Everyone gets medium settings (people with a reasonable video card are happy, but some older machines are out, AND people with good cards are annoyed at not getting to use them..) Cheers.
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