Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[DerekSpeare]

I seriously hope that they do not disable the mouse entirely for VR users. Many "mousers", myself included, have been mousing for a long time. It's intuitive for me to use it to interact with various cockpit control elements.

 

I have firsthand with a head-slaved "VR Interaction Pointer" with both FlyIsnide and the Oculus Home software. The former has had this feature implemented for about a month. For some things like menu interactivity the dot is ok to use; I'm preferring the mouse. But for other interactivity it's terrible. It's often difficult to reach far away control elements for the reason that the dot is in the middle of the screen, and positioning it can be literally a pain in the neck.

 

Moreover, there are certain to be DCS VR users either now or in the future who may have physical limitations. Some folks may be faced with very limited physical movement. Forcing them to position their entire body to interact with the game would be a disservice to them.

 

Of course, if the mouse is kept, then none of this matters. You can get an example of the VR-Dot and mouse combo with FlyInside. Dan's implementation let's the user decide which is best.

[Chivas]

I seriously hope that they do not disable the mouse entirely for VR users. Many "mousers", myself included, have been mousing for a long time. It's intuitive for me to use it to interact with various cockpit control elements.

 

I have firsthand with a head-slaved "VR Interaction Pointer" with both FlyIsnide and the Oculus Home software. The former has had this feature implemented for about a month. For some things like menu interactivity the dot is ok to use; I'm preferring the mouse. But for other interactivity it's terrible. It's often difficult to reach far away control elements for the reason that the dot is in the middle of the screen, and positioning it can be literally a pain in the neck.

 

Moreover, there are certain to be DCS VR users either now or in the future who may have physical limitations. Some folks may be faced with very limited physical movement. Forcing them to position their entire body to interact with the game would be a disservice to them.

 

Of course, if the mouse is kept, then none of this matters. You can get an example of the VR-Dot and mouse combo with FlyInside. Dan's implementation let's the user decide which is best.

 

Yes I agree with what your saying. I was just thinking that it would be just as easy to take our hand off our Hotas and grab a mouse in VR as it would to grab a wand if it didn't make much graphical difference on the display.

[Brainling]

How is a person with limited physical motion even going to fly with a VR HMD then? With 1:1 head movement, to look at side the cockpit, especially during BFM, will require someone to be able to move at the full range. I'm not saying those people should be marginalized, I'm just saying they are going to have bigger issues than head-slaved pointer.

[hansangb]

The immediate difference that I can think of is depth. You can't do that with a mouse. So with a mouse, you work in a 2D world and you pan side to side and up or down. With VR controllers, you can "reach" down for a switch. For most DCS use, I'm thinking mouse'ing is enough. Although I guess you can now experience why the ground safey overide for the GAU-8 is so far back in the corner! :)

[Johnny Dioxin]

How is a person with limited physical motion even going to fly with a VR HMD then? With 1:1 head movement, to look at side the cockpit, especially during BFM, will require someone to be able to move at the full range.

 

 

That's me!

 

I am currently unable to fly dogfights and stick to AG ops only, due to this limitation - has been that way for about 15 years. That's using TrackIR, where I have to move my head, but keep my eyes looking at the screen.

 

I'm actually looking forward to using VR because I think it will make it possible for me to try dogfighting again.

 

Yes, it's a worry that my neck will suffer (or I may get dizzy, like I do with TrackIR when scanning the sky on my monitor) but I think it will actually be more comfortable than it has been, due to the larger relative FOV. I don't think it will be a problem, because I never have these issues when I'm outside, looking for an aircaft I can hear, but not see.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Brixmis

[Crunchy]

The immediate difference that I can think of is depth. You can't do that with a mouse. So with a mouse, you work in a 2D world and you pan side to side and up or down. With VR controllers, you can "reach" down for a switch. For most DCS use, I'm thinking mouse'ing is enough. Although I guess you can now experience why the ground safey overide for the GAU-8 is so far back in the corner! :)

 

This is the only thing I don't like and wish they could fix. I keep having to move my head backwards and forwards to be able to use the switches. Didn't the Dev have Runtime 1.3 so they could get it ready when it was released? That's the thing that annoyed me about Oculus not allowing proper Devs Runtime 1.3 until now.

 

Also, I thought Runtime 0.8 had Time warp implemented, but now I'm told it didn't and that it's Runtime 1.3 that has this feature? Is this true because the Devs will be able to put it to good use if it's true. I thought I had seen someone mention it was used in Runtime 0.8, so I'm curious to know if this was correct?

[SkateZilla]

How is a person with limited physical motion even going to fly with a VR HMD then? With 1:1 head movement, to look at side the cockpit, especially during BFM, will require someone to be able to move at the full range. I'm not saying those people should be marginalized, I'm just saying they are going to have bigger issues than head-slaved pointer.

 

if you increase too far past 1:1, you might end up getting motion sickness.

[Frusheen]

This is the only thing I don't like and wish they could fix. I keep having to move my head backwards and forwards to be able to use the switches. Didn't the Dev have Runtime 1.3 so they could get it ready when it was released? That's the thing that annoyed me about Oculus not allowing proper Devs Runtime 1.3 until now.

 

Also, I thought Runtime 0.8 had Time warp implemented, but now I'm told it didn't and that it's Runtime 1.3 that has this feature? Is this true because the Devs will be able to put it to good use if it's true. I thought I had seen someone mention it was used in Runtime 0.8, so I'm curious to know if this was correct?

 

Timewarp and asynchronous timewarp are two different things. ATW was not available in runtime 0.8. The developer of flyinside implemented his own version of ATW in 0.8 which is what confused a number of people using Dev kits with flight sims.

[DerekSpeare]

I don't presume to know the needs of others better than they do themselves. Others may, but I am not one to do it. It makes no logical sense to remove one feature with greater utility proven over decades of use in favor of one that's new and much less simple to use, even to the level of making is physically impossible for some to use.

 

While I'd bet ED will give the user the option to use both, any objections to keeping the mouse living beside the new laser pointer would be bizarre and strange to me.

Edited April 4, 2016 by DerekSpeare

[Chivas]

The immediate difference that I can think of is depth. You can't do that with a mouse. So with a mouse, you work in a 2D world and you pan side to side and up or down. With VR controllers, you can "reach" down for a switch. For most DCS use, I'm thinking mouse'ing is enough. Although I guess you can now experience why the ground safey overide for the GAU-8 is so far back in the corner! :)

 

I totally understand the depth thing, but what I don't understand is how DCS will show the curser/laser/hand? moving in 3d space. If its an arm and hand OK. But If its just a small curser/laser moving in the 3d space of the cockpit, I'm not sure it would graphically look that much different than a mouse curser moving in a 2D cockpit space. Its still just some laser pointing to a switch, or mouse curser on the switch, and activating it. Unless there is a problem moving the mouse curser in the 3D environment.

[griffy000]

So, at 1080p with a GTX 980 and an i7 960 at 3.4ghz, will I be able to run Oculus okay? i seem to run dcs fairly well at most setting on high with lowest dips of 50fps. sorry if this is in the wrong thread

[S3NTRY11]

The only thing I think he got wrong was the FOV where he suggests the Vive FOV is slighter bigger. The FOV of the Vive is slightly wider, and higher, but its circular where as the Rift is more square. A square has more FOV area than a circle which should make the FOV of both units approximately the same.

http://imgur.com/p4le5Vx

 

In reality, I highly doubt the difference is as stark, but that's an indicator of FoV

[Phantom88]

This is from The Oculas Rift site,You can download a utility that will test your PC.....

 

Video Card NVIDIA GTX 970 / AMD R9 290 equivalent or greater

CPU Intel i5-4590 equivalent or greater

Memory 8GB+ RAM

Video Output Compatible HDMI 1.3 video output

USB Ports 3x USB 3.0 ports plus 1x USB 2.0 port

https://www.oculus.com/en-us/rift/

[Chivas]

So, at 1080p with a GTX 980 and an i7 960 at 3.4ghz, will I be able to run Oculus okay? i seem to run dcs fairly well at most setting on high with lowest dips of 50fps. sorry if this is in the wrong thread

 

I think you will have to turn down the graphic considerably. VR displays two slightly different images for the 3D effect, while a monitor has to only display one image. Also VR requires close to a constant 90 fps, although the ATW software that Oculus uses will help with momentary drops below 90fps.

 

Another sim the WW2 Cliffs of Dover is also in the process of implementing VR on the Rift. I found I was able to maintain well over 100fps over London even on the highest settings except building set to HIGH instead of UNLIMITED. This was with 4.0+ gig CPU, and a 980TI, so we could have two very good combat flight sims for our Rifting pleasure.

[Chivas]

http://imgur.com/p4le5Vx

 

In reality, I highly doubt the difference is as stark, but that's an indicator of FoV

 

Yes there are huge arguments on the validity of those tests. I'm no expert in that regard. Personally if those images were depictive of what people actually seen in the different headset, then there would be no question in users minds which had the larger FOV, but that isn't the case.

[SkateZilla]

I think you will have to turn down the graphic considerably. VR displays two slightly different images for the 3D effect, while a monitor has to only display one image. Also VR requires close to a constant 90 fps, although the ATW software that Oculus uses will help with momentary drops below 90fps.

 

Another sim the WW2 Cliffs of Dover is also in the process of implementing VR on the Rift. I found I was able to maintain well over 100fps over London even on the highest settings except building set to HIGH instead of UNLIMITED. This was with 4.0+ gig CPU, and a 980TI, so we could have two very good combat flight sims for our Rifting pleasure.

 

A Good indicator while you wait would be to run DCS using the "Stereo" Monitor Profile. I lose about 10-15% of my Frame Rate w/ XFire Off.

 

Example.

 

Using Steam's VR Tool, this is what I get w/ 2 R7970s XFired and Single, without Overclocks:

 

However, My system is still having stability problems,

(Random Desktop Flickers and Corrupted Shadows in SteamVR Test, Was Fine till I updated Drivers.)

 

Plus the 3rd GPU is still sittin in it's anti static bag.

 

Edited April 5, 2016 by SkateZilla

[KLR Rico]

I took some pictures through the CV1 today to help illustrate what to expect from the resolution. These are shot through the optics, not screenshots. As you can see, it's fairly usable, but certainly not perfect. One thing you're not going to get from the pictures is the smoothness of the low latency and 90hz refresh rate and the sense of presence. Still, you can get a pretty good idea here of what to expect gauges and stuff to look like.

 

Edit: see the photos at the link for a larger image

https://goo.gl/photos/R84Rxmoie2Nyp55u7

 

https://goo.gl/photos/R84Rxmoie2Nyp55u7

 

Here's a shot leaned in slightly and cropped to 100%. You can see that the speed tape is quite readable, and the thousands on the altitude tape is easy, but the hundreds and tens are a bit more difficult.

Edited April 5, 2016 by KLR Rico

[SkateZilla]

dunno, looks like some ghosting on that image.

[wasyl00]

dunno, looks like some ghosting on that image.

 

 

 

Yeah take those pics with the grain of salt. There isn't a good way to show through-the-lens pics showing what you going to see. Imagine trying to take picture of the surface of tv through bottom of the jar :)

[SDsc0rch]

I took some pictures through the CV1 today to help illustrate what to expect from the resolution.......

 

 

oh man! looks like what the world looks like if i take my glasses off

 

: (

 

(( ps.. but thanks for posting this ))

[Corbett1403]

Looks terrible

[KLR Rico]

Well, remember that this is all holding my phone and rift together. That being said, I agree that the image is somewhat ghosted with some pretty bad bloom/flare artifacts. Sometimes it feels like I'm wearing those drunk goggle things. :D

 

Still, despite all the shortfalls in image quality, I still find it to be adequate for a first generation product and I'd certainly never go back to a monitor willingly. The sense of "being there" is just amazing.

[Crunchy]

I think you will have to turn down the graphic considerably. VR displays two slightly different images for the 3D effect, while a monitor has to only display one image. Also VR requires close to a constant 90 fps, although the ATW software that Oculus uses will help with momentary drops below 90fps.

 

Another sim the WW2 Cliffs of Dover is also in the process of implementing VR on the Rift. I found I was able to maintain well over 100fps over London even on the highest settings except building set to HIGH instead of UNLIMITED. This was with 4.0+ gig CPU, and a 980TI, so we could have two very good combat flight sims for our Rifting pleasure.

 

Where do you get the VR patch to play Cliffs of Dover? I wouldn't mind having a look at that.

[rjetster1]

KLR Rico,

 

Thanks for posting the images... wondering if you had the DK2 and how much of an improvement you are seeing from that?

 

Thanks,

 

-Rick

[LuSi_6]

I took some pictures through the CV1 today to help illustrate what to expect from the resolution. These are shot through the optics, not screenshots. As you can see, it's fairly usable, but certainly not perfect. One thing you're not going to get from the pictures is the smoothness of the low latency and 90hz refresh rate and the sense of presence. Still, you can get a pretty good idea here of what to expect gauges and stuff to look like.

 

Edit: see the photos at the link for a larger image

https://goo.gl/photos/R84Rxmoie2Nyp55u7

 

https://goo.gl/photos/R84Rxmoie2Nyp55u7

 

Here's a shot leaned in slightly and cropped to 100%. You can see that the speed tape is quite readable, and the thousands on the altitude tape is easy, but the hundreds and tens are a bit more difficult.

 

wow! that looks amazing. mine will arive in July, it's a long wait...