Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[j0nx]

I fly in 3D surround so I think I have some idea of how cool the rift will be even though I have never used one before. I have a Galaxy S6 and the Samsung VR but haven't really even used it much because the apps for it are so-so at best. I am looking very forward to trying it. Just wondering how much of a pain it will be using the keyboard and mouse when you can't see what you are doing with the goggles on.

[boedha68]

I fly in 3D surround so I think I have some idea of how cool the rift will be even though I have never used one before. I have a Galaxy S6 and the Samsung VR but haven't really even used it much because the apps for it are so-so at best. I am looking very forward to trying it. Just wondering how much of a pain it will be using the keyboard and mouse when you can't see what you are doing with the goggles on.

 

:D i use voicebot for commands. Works excellent! That is how i think the work around keyboard when using goggles. Problem solved. :thumbup:

[Burnerski]

JUNK

 

Edited January 7, 2016 by Burnerski

[Raven68]

I wonder how many people saying OR is overpriced have a $200 Track IR sitting on their monitor... :music_whistling:

 

You paid $200 for your TrackIR? :music_whistling:

[Abburo]

Yeah but imagine Doom 3 (old game but very passionate), Half-Life, Crysis 3 ect.... lovely :D

 

I've tried DK2 and in my case it it was unbearable to ware more than 2 minutes when doing FirstPersonShooter style. I could however hold a little longer in DCS.

 

I am one of those that could simply not able to use this technology... this might be the reason to wait for it to be improved. Meanwhile I am feeling very confortable in the classic way of gaming.

[boedha68]

I've tried DK2 and in my case it it was unbearable to ware more than 2 minutes when doing FirstPersonShooter style. I could however hold a little longer in DCS.

 

I am one of those that could simply not able to use this technology... this might be the reason to wait for it to be improved. Meanwhile I am feeling very confortable in the classic way of gaming.

 

Yep, i think my 55'' 3d tv can do much longer now with the nvidia 3d software. Because OR is far overpriced. :thumbup:

[Boberro]

I've tried DK2 and in my case it it was unbearable to ware more than 2 minutes when doing FirstPersonShooter style. I could however hold a little longer in DCS.

 

I am one of those that could simply not able to use this technology... this might be the reason to wait for it to be improved. Meanwhile I am feeling very confortable in the classic way of gaming.

 

Why couldn't you bear?

There was problem with your head, sickness or FPS looked a bit crappy in DK2?

[LuSi_6]

there are people that can't watch "artificial" 3D (eg. stereo pictures). some get sick, some don't see 3D at all, just overlayerd double pictures

[DerekSpeare]

I'm still curious about the Vive and the compatibility it will offer. In addition to that, if the Vive comes out with better specifications (the Rift's are really not clear) and a competitive price, I'm predicting that some folks will abandon their Oculus pre-orders and go for the Vive.

 

Oculus stuck their neck out with the pricing. Surely the Vive will be similar, but the price hikes to Euros and Aussies is somewhat underhanded. Since Oculus moved first, Valve can respond in a way to capitalize on some of this latent frustration and negative inertia Oculus created. Since folks really have no skin in the game they can easily opt for a better option of the Vive becomes one.

 

Note to those who are new to VR or considering it: You MUST make sure you have 75+ FPS with your VR device. If you do not, you run the risk of motion sickiness. You also must make sure you have the device adjusted comfortably on your head - not too tight, not too loose. Choose your lenses properly (applies to DK2), adjust the distance they are to your eyes and get your IPD set properly (the new Oculus makes this easy). The biggest thing in my opinion is that you have a good computer to ensure smooth frames.

 

Folks also must take some time and get used to it so to develop "VR Sense" as I call it. This is important. Something many overlook is the reality that there will always be some "adjustment lag" (another Boxxism) when integrating new hardware of any type into one's gaming space. Whether it's a new joystick, monitor, button box, etc., there's always some time needed to get adjusted and to become accustomed to it to where it's accepted as a useful component psychologically. In the case of VR, and since it's such a change, it's important to give it some time to get used to the new experience, one our human minds really have never faced in our entire history.

Edited January 7, 2016 by DerekSpeare

[Warthog_Farmer]

Yep, i think my 55'' 3d tv can do much longer now with the nvidia 3d software. Because OR is far overpriced. :thumbup:

 

Have you tried the nVidia 3D goggles?

 

I had the latest gen for a whole day before I threw them straight back in the box and returned them. Absolutely dire.

 

DK2 didn't quite cut the mustard for me either for a few reasons... But I have bought CV1 regardless even though I will still find issues.

 

BUT! I shall digress a bit here... The immersion of the Oculus is beyond words. For the first time since I started simming I actually felt like I was in a real cockpit. Everything was there - properly scaled - just looking up at me. For the first time the huge artificial horizon of the A10 looked like a 3D sphere trapped behind a bit of glass. The windows in the door of the Huey and the window frames felt like they were resting on my shoulder. The head tracking was absolute perfection - TrackIR is barely usable knowing what is on its way.

 

I made a demo track of a Huey flight which started Batumi ramp with the engines running. After a brief hover taxi the rift would take people on a 120kt 5ft flight down the runway before a steep pitch up and wing over to the right into Batumi town. I darted in and out of the buildings and took an opportunity to hover at the end of a tower crane boom (like those cheap 3D effects the cinemas are all using).

 

Just watching people (who couldn't use the Huey themselves as it takes a little skill) go on the same ride I had been on was incredible. Genuine joy and amazement when they came back out.

 

So yeah. I know the CV1 won't quench my flight sim needs 100% but for having people over and giving them an experience the price is well worth it. Hell - it's just about as satisfying as taking people flying in the real world!

[j0nx]

I felt that way after installing my 3D surround setup. It's still totally immersive. The problem with it is it takes a monster rig to get any kind of fps. I am lucky to get 35fps in the city or in action with my rig in 3D surround. Sure am hoping the horsepower requirements for a similar or better experience in VR are lessened or else there will be a lot of disappointed people out there. 3D on a single monitor or flight simming at all on a single monitor for me is a non-starter. No sense of depth or distance from the ground at all. I am looking forward to comparing 3D surround to the rift.

 

The huey is a breeze to fly compared to the mi-8. That thing is all kinds of squirrely as you go in and out of translational lift.

Edited January 7, 2016 by j0nx

[wormeaten]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2634122&postcount=32

 

That could force tham to lower the price as well or they will start to claim copy rights on VR similar like Natural Point.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I'm one of them (It doesn't cost $200 though), if we are to go down that road I also have a 400€ hotas, 350€ rudder pedals, a 700€ monitor and a 2000€ water cooled custom built PC.

 

All of that to say that I like to think of myself as an enthusiast and PC sim/gaming a passion, just like many others in the DCS community. I still can't justify the OR at that price which is to me, beyond enthusiast.

 

That said, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with those who can justify it, there's no need to be sarcastic really. Oculus Rift was pitched, funded and developed on the basis that it'd be an affordable VR solution for the masses and is now being sold instead as a luxury high-end specialized product for the few. There had to be reactions.

 

I had no intention of being sarcastic. I was just hoping to draw attention to difference between value and affordability. In particular how affordability can distort our perception of value.

 

The OR costs a fair bit making it unaffordable for some, but does that mean it's bad value? It costs 3-4 times (depending where you live) the TrackIR, but OR tracks head movement (much more accurately than TrackIR as I understand it), has a small high definition screen in it, lenses, speakers and ships with a controller (yes I like many won't use it, but it's still part of the package). TrackIR does one thing and one thing only (track head movement).

 

Because the TrackIR is much cheaper people can buy it without too much thought, but is it really better value than OR? A matter of opinion of course, but I certainly don't think so.

[Boberro]

What about people with glasses?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

What about people with glasses?

 

IIRC you can still wear them.

[theGozr]

LOL well that the time for the competition to move in.. Sooo failed Just BS

[garengarch]

What about people with glasses?

 

This is the one thing I fail to understand. Is the problem short-sighted vision or long- sighted?

I mean, the screen is a couple of inches from your eyes, so do long- sighted people have trouble focusing, or is because it simulates objects far away, so short-sighted sighted people have the issue?

 

For example, I wear glasses for short-sighted but have perfect near-sight, so will I be okay without glasses?

 

I' m easily confused :)

 

I've read lots of articles from people with glasses having problems with dk2, but they never mention whether they wear them for short-sightedness or long- sightedness.

[theGozr]

The VR have focusing optic to your own sight like binoculars

[garengarch]

Thanks for that!

So they have dioptic correction like DSLR cameras?

[DerekSpeare]

I personally have no use for the bundled games, controller, headphone and fancy case. Eve Valkyrie looks cool and may be stellar, but I'm only after the HMD. Such is life that the price includes all of the fluff.

 

They sure stepped on their sacks with the pricing, though, with respect to prepping the market for it and the additional price for non-US folks...it will be interesting to see what Valve does about it and what Oculus will do more than just "we're sorry".

[Chivas]

Its hard to find comparisons of the CV1, and HTC Vive Pre, but found two on reddit. Take them with a grain of salt, especially since it compares a consumer version against Vive's latest prototype that may or may not reflect the final version.

 

CES CV1 Impressions vs Vive (self.oculus)

submitted an hour ago by ptpatil

 

 

Ordered my CV1 in the first 5 mins, but I finally got done trying the Vive and CV1 here are my thoughts as someone who owns DK1, DK2 & GearVR:

The CV1 was the best out of the two in terms of VR presence and experience, here are the reasons and what I noticed as differences -

1. Optics Quality: I got a chance to view both the Vive and CV1 lens, the CV1 has a superb sweet spot for aberration and distortion free viewing, there is no noticeable chromatic aberration like the DK2. Fellow DK2 owners who hate having to tighten your straps and carefully position the lenses w.r.t to your eyes to avoid a blurry mess will be pleased. I also played around with the physical IPD mechanism which is fan-****ing-tastic, feels high quality and long lasting and the position adjustment is detailed and stays where you leave it.

Another part of the optics that definitely helps is the non-circular shape. If you have the DK2, try looking at your nose or the left and right edges of your visual field when you have the headset on, you will notice that things quickly become blurry and colors seperate a LOT.

If you have also played FPS games like Fallout 4 and Battlefront using VorpX w/ the DK2, you will know that unless your eyes are pointing in the same direction of your head/face that clarity is quickly lost which makes tracking targets that come into view and move away from the center of your vision is hard to get used to because you have to move your entire head instead of naturally moving your line of sight in your field of view. The new lenses make this natural and seamless in a bigger area of your FOV.

Which brings me to the final point about the lenses, the FOV, oh god damn the FOV, its in that sweet spot. From the DK1 to DK2, the VFOV and HFOV were sacrificed and thus you got this "scuba mask" feeling which at least for me substantially reduced chances of achieving presence for a large continuous amount of time. From my demo, this scuba mask effect is greatly diminished to the point that your peripheral area of vision is sufficiently filled with pixels to give you better feeling of presence.

Palmer, you made a good decision splurging for these new lenses, at least for me.

Displays: The CV1 also had an advantage here when compared to the Vive IMO but a much smaller margin then the lens, the pixel fill density was noticeable better and the low persistence kept light from bleeding and blur from being a problem, the Vive also does this pretty well but there is more noticeable smearing in the Vive. The other big difference is the noticeability of SDE and pixels. DK2 owners know when playing something like Assetto Corsa, if you focus really hard on an upcoming turn, you often times get pulled out of the immersion because your brain actually notices that what you are seeing is just pixels that are changing color, rather than a cohesive image in a wide field of view. This effect is significantly diminished w/ CV1's screen as compared to the Vive, in EVE Valkyrie, even when I focused on a ship to lock on, I never fully lost immersion with the "oh this is just a shit heap of aliased pixels I'm looking at" feeling. Because of this, large scale objects in the background also feel more "3D", the planet I was fighting above in EVE actually felt like a massive body under me as I flew around dog fighting.

Weight: The CV1 was margially more comfortable than the Vive, but the most annoying thing was still the cable and how it sometimes pulled on your face when walking around in both the Vive and CV1 (the CV1 was more standing so I noticed the cable less and stepped on it less often).

Motion Controls: The Vive does a little bit better here when it works, I found the Vive controllers to be more comfortable and natural to hold than the CV1 Touch, both the Touch Vive sometimes would skip or reset a bit when enough of the controller for a hand was ocluded (when hugging your hands to your chest and hunching for example), but when it worked the Vive and Touch were solidly 1:1 with a slight edge going to the Vive.

Audio:CV1 is a clear winner in this regard, I am a bit of an audiophile and have 10+ different headphones including a Bang & Olufsen set, the CV1 was comparable to most high end audiophile headphones I own in terms of sound stage and balance of sound. The usefulness of the uniformity of the CV1 headset's cans were apparent, directionality and "positioning" of sound in the CV1 demo was noticeably better than the Vive, which felt like the crude circular directionality and distance drop off in magnitude that we are used to in regular games. In the CV1, 360 degree spherical directionality and much better distance differentiation was possible.

Conclusion: All in all, in addition to my $2k PC and $5k gaming chair setup, the extra $200 for the CV1 made sense, I am very happy with my future purchase based on my demo experiences.

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[Chivas]

second one, again take with a grain of salt.

 

"

 

I just tried the CES Rift CV1 demos (self.oculus)

submitted 19 hours ago * by vgf89

 

 

Final Edit: no way I'm getting an Oculus Touch demo, according to the desk they're all spoken for.

EDIT: DETAILS AT THE SUPER DUPER EDIT BELOW

Honestly it makes me feel much better about spending $600 on the headset. I played demos of the included preorder games Lucky's Tale and Eve: Valkyrie. They were smooth, felt great to play, and the resolution was such a non issue that I stopped noticing it after the first 30 seconds of having the headset on (also there was plenty of text in Oculus Home which was very easy to read, better than my bro's GearVR for sure). The headset was freaking lightweight too! I couldn't even notice the weight once it was on.

I'm still at CES and on my phone so I'll update tonight with more details (or just make another post) when I get to a computer. The short of it is that if you bought the Rift, you should rest easy knowing that $600 is well spent (though I won't argue that Aussies and some euopeans got shafted, as I still wouldn't have spent $800 USD on this VR headset)

SUPER DUPER EDIT: I tried both the Rift CV1 (no Touch) and the Vive.

Rift CV1: SDE: no problem. It wasn't nearly as bad a GearVR. There were still some Pentil artifacts (sometimes slightly visible pattern of bright dots in the image), but they were only noticeable on some text and sharp gradients (like in Oculus Home). In Eve: Valkyrie and Lucky's Tale, it wasn't noticeable, so I ended up just being swept up in the experiences. Tracking was perfect, 3D was near perfect (it wasn't quite calibrated to my specific face, but it was pretty close and you can adjust it, the demo time just doesn't allow for personal calibration). The Xbone controller felt fine, nothing to complain about honestly. The headset is very light, I didn't even notice the weight of it when I was whipping my head around in Valkyrie.

Lucky's Tale felt very very natural. I could judge my jump distances perfectly, and the slowly moving camera felt fine. They hid things in the periphery and over the shoulder which encouraged looking around. I can totally see platformers being massively benefitted by VR. This isn't even just 3DS's 3D levels of better platforming, it just works. I can't wait to play through the whole game when I get my Rift!

Eve: Valkyrie really felt like a tech demo, but certainly a demo with promise (FYI it's basically the same as the pre-alpha footage). It was fun. Flicking my head around to look at and find other ships was great (no neck/head strain, seriously the headset is light, definitely doesn't feel like the DK1, and even feels better than Crescent Bay). I did feel a little limited by 3 axes of ship movement (plus a boost button), as I'm use to a full 5 or 6 in Elite, but I see this the game working very very well for multiplayer. If I didn't get it with the preorder I would probably end up buying it, but I want to see the full game before completely judging it.

Honestly, I have nothing bad to say about the Rift. Would I have liked the $600 price tag to include Touch? Sure. Would I have liked it to hit my expected $550 price tag? Yes. But $600 is good enough for the headset IMO. It works, and it works damn well.

Vive Pre: I'm conflicted. I feel like my demo specifically was less than par for a multitude of reasons, but I'll start with the positives. Once I point out negatives, take them with a grain of salt unless other people who have tried both the Vive and CV1 report the same issues.

When the Vive works properly, it works well. Their Controller tracking works very precisely (just like the Vive and Rift headsets). Aiming down the sights of a gun felt natural. The touchpads functioned (though they weren't used too much in the demos for anything but swiping). Room scale VR is nice, but so is sitting down with a controller in hand playing a slightly more familiar game with a gamepad and head tracking. I see both applications taking off. The Chaperone system seemed OK but really nothing special, basically just a wireframe box that shows up when you get close to the edge of your preprogrammed space (Oculus could do something like this in their SDK if they wanted, it was really really really simple).

The ocean scene was nice. The blue whale that came looked pretty sweet. Aside from that, the textures in the scene were mostly pretty meh.

The zombie shooter (did everyone else try this or was my demoer being nice?) was actually pretty cool, though the controls for ammo and gun switching felt a little unnatural. It felt awkward like pulling a game controller trigger, not like grabbing and dropping something.

Tiltbrush was fun. Nothing to really complain about, aside from a bug on one of my controllers. I could honestly see artists picking this up. That video of the Disney artist painting Ariel in 3D was no joke.

Now for neutral and negative comments about the Vive: The resolution seems kinda around the same, or maybe slightly worse (I know, same res screens, but optics do a lot) than the Rift CV1. However, the kit was blurry. I had my demoer (actually, both of them, since the first one had technical issues) clean it but it didn't really help. The lenses looked sparkly clean but it was blurry when I put it on.. Maybe my head is too small or too big for their one-size-fits-all stuff, but seriously, it was pretty bad in the center (I tried adjusting the position of the Vive on my face, the tightness of the straps, it didn't help). Surely these problems will be fixed by a consumer release, but the blur was certainly problematic. After I was done and noted the blur, my demoer tried it on and noted the same problems, saying it was weird as hell (I assume he's tried it before). Probably just a problem with that unit or my head. I didn't see any pentile artifacts iirc, but those didn't bother me in the Rift anyways.

Second, a whole host of technical issues had me waiting another 15-20 minutes before I had a working demo. The first Vive I tried, the visuals were tilted. One reset and recalibration later and that was fixed, but now the motion controllers weren't connected or weren't tracking! Ew. Also it was blurry as I said above. So I waited some time for another demo room to open up. Luckily that one worked. It still had the blur of my first headset. The controllers again didn't work but a restart of the software fixed it once and for all.

Shooting my guns accurately was harder than it should have been due to the blur. One of the controllers had a bugged touchpad that would glitch the hell out if I lifted my finger off of it, which made the menu all jittery in tiltbrush. Keeping my finger on it fixed it, but it still shouldn't be happening.

Finally, the ergonomics of the Vive Pre were just not up to snuff. They're still using elastic bands, and the headset was heavier than the Rift. This allowed it to move around a little while on my face, even when the straps were relatively tight. Also due to the elastic, the padding didn't feel as "invisible" as on the Rift. I couldn't whip my head around without the headset moving, so I occasionally had to adjust it to get in the almost-sweet-spot again (which was awkward while holding the motion controllers). While I don't have any Oculus Touch experience to compare against yet, the controllers didn't feel quite as ergonomic as I was expecting, but they were good enough to where I would feel comfortable using them at least for a few hours without complaint. I'll compare tomorrow if I get Touch in my hands.

TL;DR, Rift CV1 gets an A+. The tracking seems perfect, the game demos were fun (and Lucky's Tale wasn't "oh cool demo" fun, it was "I want more of this" fun). I still need to see Touch, but I really like what I see so far. Given the technical issues I experienced and the ugly blur that I couldn't seem to get rid of, Vive Pre gets an A-. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but my experience with the Vive Pre didn't seem to be as great as everyone else's

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[hansangb]

Interesting. Quite a few things to look forward to, I guess. Can't wait until April. Not being able to get in, and then having to order it 20 times, slipped my order to April. GRrrrrr.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I personally have no use for the bundled games, controller, headphone and fancy case. Eve Valkyrie looks cool and may be stellar, but I'm only after the HMD. Such is life that the price includes all of the fluff.

 

They sure stepped on their sacks with the pricing, though, with respect to prepping the market for it and the additional price for non-US folks...it will be interesting to see what Valve does about it and what Oculus will do more than just "we're sorry".

 

They didn't hike the price for non-US folk, it's tax that makes the difference.

 

Some people had expectations about it being cheap and OR didn't help themselves with the manner price speculation was handled, but once the dust settles I doubt it'll be a long term issue; especially when Vive pricing is announced, as it is looking like it's going to cost even more than OR.

[Chivas]

I was surprised, and disappoint as anyone else at the Rifts pricepoint, and it did price many people out of the market. BUT if people asked if I'd take an slightly improved DK2, at four hundred dollars or the CV1 at six hundred US dollars, I'd buy the later.

 

The Canadian dollar has taken a major fall since the price of oil went down the tubes. The six hundred dollar Rift converted to nine hundred Canadian with shipping so I'm not sure how people think its Oculus fault. I wouldn't expect Oculus to sell their unit to me for six hundred Canadian, which would be well below their cost.

 

The Europeans have always been shafted on electronic prices for some reason. Usually paying atleast double the price, even though their Pound, and Euro or worth more than the US dollar. I would be pissed.