Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[metalnwood]

well i didnt have any problems with it THIS technology depends on the user you cant blanket statement that it wont work and wont be a good experience if your not locked to whatever frame rate because that is not true. Not worried one bit about cv1 as Dk2 was perfect for me even below the Dreaded 75 fps......

 

You are correct, it can be viewed as subjective but you know that one person doesnt make a statistic.

 

Oculus and others know that this platform will fail if they dont get it right and the few people that dont mind low fps, like yourself, are not enough to sustain the platform.

 

So you can call it subjective but they have the information to know that the good majority of people cannot handle it how you can.

[Frusheen]

I honestly don't care what you say or think I'm simply stating from my experience and it's longer than 18 months with a rift is it's a subjective experience per user. You guys want to preach about fps this and that and tell people their wrong and will have a horrible experience without exhibit A, the truth is in my experience you will have an enjoyable flight not locked at 75 or 90 fps again user dependent. While you are over their stressing about numbers I'm over here enjoying the tech.

 

Have you actually experienced DCS locked at 75hz?

 

I have to question if you've ever experienced low persistence because your posts on the subject of fps are utter nonsense.

[Chivas]

The DK2 may have worked for some people, but it obviously was no were near good enough for the consumer version to be successful. There are still huge questions on whether or not the CV1 or Vive will be good enough for flight sims. The good news is that the people who are experiencing complex flight sims with the latest prototypes of the CV1, and Vive HTC appear to be continuing their support for these devices. There is still a chance.

[DerekSpeare]

VR is here to stay. It's an eventuality when it becomes perfect for simming. I'm not going to wait and see, however. If it takes a couple of iterations to get it right, that's ok. I'll enjoy the ride with my Oculus every step of the way.

 

I've been waiting 20 years for VR to finally happen. Oculus was the watershed event to make it a reality.

[_Acoustic_]

OR Timewarp seems promising, TF is working on getting VR to work in Cliffs of Dover. #5 on the caveats list talks about the issues with it.

 

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21356&highlight=london

 

It will be interesting come April when the reviews start coming in on what FPS people need to enjoy their time in cockpit. Timewarp seems to be a promising step though, at least for CloD. I'm hoping it will be even better and easier in DCS since developers are working with VR in mind. I agree with Derek, it is the future for gaming.

Edited February 29, 2016 by ♠_Acoustic_♠

[DerekSpeare]

Flyinside uses timewarp. It's like voodoo magic.

 

flyinside-fsx.com

[hannibal]

Flyinside uses timewarp. It's like voodoo magic.

 

flyinside-fsx.com

have you been in a cessna or any real plane cockpit? would like ur thoughts in comparison to real life..

 

SO, WHO DUN DID IT, and pre-ordered a HTC Vive? i am jealous of your guys who will start doing your HD VR DCS simming with the vive that ships in april..

[dot]

If Vive came with HL3 I would pre order it immediately, but since I'm getting CV1 I can't justify 890 euro price, so for now I think Vive will have to wait.

It's great that DCS supports both so we'll know soon which one works better.

[hansangb]

Have you actually experienced DCS locked at 75hz?

 

I have to question if you've ever experienced low persistence because your posts on the subject of fps are utter nonsense.

 

 

If the man doesn't see the judder, I would take his word for it.

[Enduro14]

Yes i have experienced full locked out 75 its very nice. But i also have no judder perceivable by me until im under 40fps.

[_Acoustic_]

Kind of related to OR but can anyone shed some light on this:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=161775

 

I've read lots of great info in this thread about many issues so hoping for some insight.

[hannibal]

i have a concern for the rift....

we know it has an IPD adjustment.. im not sure how focal adjustment will be, at moment, i believe there is NOT any.

 

i own a gear VR. it sux that i can't adjust IPD so i have to wiggle the GearVR around for the sweet spot, once that i have establish that, then i proceed to use the focus wheel on top of the GearVR to get the best focus...

 

I AM WONDERING HOW CV1 WILL ACCOMIDATE FOCUS???? (HTC has both focus and ipd adjustment)

[DerekSpeare]

There's some terminology confusions going on. Since Oculus implemented direct-to-rift mode in 0700+ runtimes, judder was eliminated. However, what WAS judder in Extended mode BECAME a type of ghosting or smearing of the image when the frame rates went below the device refresh rate.

 

It's impossible to record as fraps won't see it, and it's tough to describe without experiencing it in person. Both judder (pre 0700) and ghosting (0700+) are very prominent and not unnoticeable in my opinion. While ghosting may not be as disorientating as judder, both are undesirable to many and a symptom of insufficient hardware capabilities.

 

Oculus has been very forthcoming with efforts to stress the importance of capable hardware to achieve the use experience with the Rift. My personal recommendations are the same as theirs, but I am more aggressive in my hardware recommendations. It's my personal hope that folks making the migration from screen to VR be as rewarding as I know it can be. Having a capable system on which to run their VR hardware ensures that all of the extraneous factors that potentially cause trouble have been removed from the equation.

 

@hannibal - yes, many planes. And yes, the CV1 will have IPD adjustment. The Vive allows the user to adjust the lens-to-eye distance.

 

NB - some of the reports I have read from reviewers who have tried both the Vive and the Rift indicate the Rift's visual quality is better. All other features aside, it is visual quality that is 80% of the matter when it comes to good experience.

Edited March 1, 2016 by DerekSpeare

[Chivas]

It doesn't have a focus wheel. It's supposed to have room enough to wear prescription glasses instead.

 

The Rift uses different thickness facial pads to adjust for eyewear. Some say they have no problem using glasses with the Vive or Rift, other say they have a problem. Personally I think it will depend on the size of your glasses.

[hannibal]

It doesn't have a focus wheel. It's supposed to have room enough to wear prescription glasses instead.

 

i have more or less 20/20 vision. (I DONT wear glasses)

i own the gearVR, and i have to deal with the focus wheel in order to obtain a sharp image.

 

so at current:

gearVR : Focus adjust YES ; IPD adjust NO

oculus CV1: Focus adjust NO ; IPD adjust YES

vive CV : Focus adjust YES ; IPD adjust YES.

 

so, im just wondering how or if any focus is involved in the oculus CV1.

i believe both adjustments are necessary (though prove me wrong)

[hannibal]

@hannibal - yes, many planes. And yes, the CV1 will have IPD adjustment. The Vive allows the user to adjust the lens-to-eye distance.

 

for the most part, the articles i read about rifts visual experience is GOOD.

do you have a source for "yes, many planes" and i assume ur refer to planes of axis?

thanks for reply sir!

[Chivas]

i have a concern for the rift....

we know it has an IPD adjustment.. im not sure how focal adjustment will be, at moment, i believe there is NOT any.

 

i own a gear VR. it sux that i can't adjust IPD so i have to wiggle the GearVR around for the sweet spot, once that i have establish that, then i proceed to use the focus wheel on top of the GearVR to get the best focus...

 

I AM WONDERING HOW CV1 WILL ACCOMIDATE FOCUS???? (HTC has both focus and ipd adjustment)

 

Its impossible to wiggle any HMD to change the IPD. An IPD adjustment is imperative. The Vive IN/OUT adjustment is primarily there to more easily accommodate eye glasses, not focus.

 

Unfortunately moving the HMD farther from our faces likely lowers the FOV somewhat. I wear eyeglasses, but I'm having cataract surgery soon that will significantly increase my distance clarity. The HMD's optics are supposedly focused too infinity, so I may be able to use these headsets without glasses.

[hannibal]

Its impossible to wiggle any HMD to change the IPD. An IPD adjustment is imperative. The Vive IN/OUT adjustment is primarily there to more easily accommodate eye glasses, not focus.

 

Unfortunately moving the HMD farther from our faces likely lowers the FOV somewhat. I wear eyeglasses, but I'm having cataract surgery soon that will significantly increase my distance clarity. The HMD's optics are supposedly focused too infinity, so I may be able to use these headsets without glasses.

 

hmmmm. the plot thickens!

well, both vive and rift have fresnel lenes (rift being more custom)

 

they must be magic! lol ^_^

 

ok, so lenses / screen built to infinity.. ill take that.

Edited March 1, 2016 by hannibal

[Corbett1403]

All this debating over fps is something none of us will know until we get reviews from those with early shipping dates. It would be nice if there was a programme where you enter your computer specs and then it a produces a report on what's the best thing to do to get the best fps from your system.

[metalnwood]

Yes Hannibal, the optics in the rift are collimated, which means the light rays coming from it are parallel and that give you a focus of infinity.

 

So if you dont need a prescription for looking in the distance then the rift is going to be good.

 

I would hope that in the future as these things get more common that there will be options for the optics to cover things like myopia and astigmatism. I wear glasses but can get away with not wearing them in the rift - so far!

[Chivas]

hmmmm. the plot thickens!

well, both vive and rift have fresnel lenes (rift being more custom)

 

they must be magic! lol ^_^

 

ok, so lenses / screen built to infinity.. ill take that.

 

Yes, the Rift uses optic lenses, that the devs claim combines the best qualities of regular lenses with Fresnel lenses. This custom cut appears to have removed most of the ridges, which is one of the main problems with the Fresnel lenses. Some have suggested that the Vive Fresnel lenses causes some banding in sky's. The Rift lenses also supposedly have a large sweet spot.

[metalnwood]

In Dk1 it's infinity, but in DK2 it is 1.3 m. In CV1 is still to be known.

 

Thats interesting, I have never seen any information to indicate they are not collimated. Where did you find that?

[DerekSpeare]

It's unrealistic to expect that users in general will tolerate on an extended basis lower-than-refresh-rate frame rates. Oculus has stated the need for adequate hardware uite emphatically in order to achieve positive use experiences.

 

Additionally, the difference between expected low(er) frame rates when encountered on a monitor verses a VR device are extraordinarily significant. It's a HUGE difference between 65 and 75 FPS on the Oculus...it's trivial at best on a screen. If you haven't seen it, you don't want to. I'd not expect anyone to tolerate it over the long term with VR. I'm really curious to know if those who are understating frame rate importance have any real VR use history or if the remarks can be considered speculative at best.

 

Personally, I want those who use VR to have a good time with it. It's irresponsible to speculate on matters many with experience can prove to be otherwise true. Having low performance hardware with unrealistically optimistic expectations is a setup for a letdown.

 

It's to everyone's collective benefit for the long term success of VR that folks do nothing but enjoy their VR gaming. I want to see everyone have only the best time as that means better hardware sooner!

 

All this debating over fps is something none of us will know until we get reviews from those with early shipping dates. It would be nice if there was a programme where you enter your computer specs and then it a produces a report on what's the best thing to do to get the best fps from your system.

 

"None of us will know..."...no, plenty of folks posting here have bona fide, long term use experience with their DK2, AND the DK2 has a lower refresh rate than the CV1; c.f. 75 with 90hz. Some may know little about VR experiences, but we have plenty of folks here who do.

Edited March 2, 2016 by DerekSpeare

[hannibal]

"None of us will know..."...no, plenty of folks posting here have bona fide, long term use experience with their DK2, AND the DK2 has a lower refresh rate than the CV1; c.f. 75 with 90hz. Some may know little about VR experiences, but we have plenty of folks here who do.

 

yes, i must take a step back, and lower my expectations.

its been said that 8K or 16K.. maybe even 32K to match reality, let alone have a game run at 90fps.

 

though i never tried DCS with DK2, i tell myself to be realistic for CV1 what it will be!

[DerekSpeare]

My first recommendation - after making sure the hardware is in order - is to run all of the graphics options all the way down and gradually bring them up where performance allows.

 

There are two forces working in our favor. The first is the intimation that ED will implement Asynchronous Time Warp and the second, speculative, would be any improvements the Oculus 1.0.0.0 runtimes bring to the party. In that regard, we'll have to wait and see.

 

I personally think that timewarp should come out as soon as possible and any graphical optimizations that can be made should be made as well.