Ver 1.2.3 News

[quarkie]

Open Beta tests and events on major projects like Diablo or BF are done not to test the game itself, but rather test their services and networks for load and gather automated reports. Unless you have QA full of masters of telepathy and fortune telling, who can guess a song from 2 notes, checking actual bug reports from amateurs is a waste of resources.

[Hamblue]

 

 

EDIT : BF BETA is no BETA. It's a playable demo that they call BETA because it's look modern. When you release a BETA 15 days before release, that's no longer a BETA but a DEMO, because disc are already being manufactured somewhere !!!! They just don't want to be ashamed in case of bugs or major showstopper and anticipate the first hotfix work.

Correct, and what happens on release day. If you notice the big boys provide a major patch on that day. It's the result of "playable demo" results.

[Hamblue]

Open Beta tests and events on major projects like Diablo or BF are done not to test the game itself, but rather test their services and networks for load and gather automated reports. Unless you have QA full of masters of telepathy and fortune telling, who can guess a song from 2 notes, checking actual bug reports from amateurs is a waste of resources.

Bug reports from "amatuers" is not a waste. If someone tells you they are having X problem and here are my system specs it isn't rocket science to add the data.

It's only Amatuer management that can't figure it out.

 

If you poll the average player here you will find that most are not Amatuers. I'd bet that most are professional in some field and the fact that they are flying a high end sim, I'd bet they know what is right and not.

[HungaroJET]

Battlefield 4 will have hundreds of thousands of testers if not more.

 

BF4 is not a Simulator and not as complex as DCS. Period.

anyway...Calm Down Folks...for few more days :joystick::thumbsup:

[Eddie]

If you poll the average player here you will find that most are not Amatuers. I'd bet that most are professional in some field and the fact that they are flying a high end sim, I'd bet they know what is right and not.

 

And yet most of those members are totally incapable of posting a bug report that has the necessary information to allow the testers and/or devs to do anything with it.

 

No matter how many times we tell people what they need to provide.

[Hamblue]

Have you played BF3? Hundreds of thousands of players playing on-line world wide. Multiple types of maps with various player counts. Planes, vehicles, foot soldiers with dozens of different weapon types and running without a hitch. It's much more complex than a sim.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sim, but BF, COD series, and Fly Aces High(which is a sim that has hundreds in the same map at a time) are examples that it can be done. All I suggest is maybe someone look across the street to see how the other side does it. Never hurts.

[Hamblue]

And yet most of those members are totally incapable of posting a bug report that has the necessary information to allow the testers and/or devs to do anything with it.

 

No matter how many times we tell people what they need to provide.

That may be true, but the problem in question has been current for at least 3/4 of a year. Nothing wrong with suggesting something different.

 

It would suck for instance if a particular video card/driver version wasn't tested and resulted in a big problem, all because the 20 people that participated didn't represent that group. If you visit guru3d.com and check the forums you'll find that drivers will product great results for people playing game x while totally screwing players of game y. Sometimes issues aren't even game related, but with the drivers.

[Eddie]

Indeed, but hardware issues are but a very, very small part of what testing is about. The vast majority of issues have nothing to do with hardware at all.

 

You could have 1,000 people on a test team and still not capture every possible hardware/software combination, so it's a waste of time trying. That is what the public betas are there to assist with.

[TheKhann]

Bohemia Interactive seem to have a pretty spot on approach with the Arma series that seem to work fine. Upcoming patches have beta releases that are made publicly available, there is also a public bug reporting system available. Whomever has the time and think they can contribute with testing uses the beta patches and reports bugs. Seems like a pretty good approach where a not so fully staffed developer relies on a core community to help with testing new releases.

[Silver_Dragon]

Please, can rejoin the theme discusion 1.2.3 patch? If someshing like continue talking EA/BF3/4X vs ED/DCS:W move to apropiate forum or Webside, and hold for hijack the treath.

 

Ok, the 1.2.3 beta has continue give some problems, expected can resolved on the week, and continue the develop.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Silver_Dragon

[rrohde]

I still think it's odd that the release of updated content (as outlined in the 1.2.3 changelog) is delayed so long by only one issue -- netcode.

 

If I had a say, I would make sure that the netcode issue is worked on detached from all the other changes that were proposed in 1.2.3 and release them. Improving netcode is a moving target and should not stop other content from being released as it becomes available.

 

After all, not everyone flies online, but everyone who's a DCS pilot appreciates the fixes that were outlined in the 1.2.3 changelog a shown here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=99109

Edited February 18, 2013 by rrohde

[SkateZilla]

Have you played BF3? Hundreds of thousands of players playing on-line world wide. Multiple types of maps with various player counts. Planes, vehicles, foot soldiers with dozens of different weapon types and running without a hitch. It's much more complex than a sim.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sim, but BF, COD series, and Fly Aces High(which is a sim that has hundreds in the same map at a time) are examples that it can be done. All I suggest is maybe someone look across the street to see how the other side does it. Never hurts.

 

Do Not Compare BF3's Different Types of Operations to DCS, 1 Button Flick in the A-10C outclasses the entire Aircraft Flight Modelling done in BF3.

[quarkie]

Bug reports from "amatuers" is not a waste. If someone tells you they are having X problem and here are my system specs it isn't rocket science to add the data.

It's only Amatuer management that can't figure it out.

 

If you poll the average player here you will find that most are not Amatuers. I'd bet that most are professional in some field and the fact that they are flying a high end sim, I'd bet they know what is right and not.

 

You kidding me, right?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=100554

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=100410

 

These your "reports" are only decipherable through telepathy and clairvoyance and are the prime examples of what I am talking about.

[aaron886]

Actually, I think it's fair to suggest that BF3 is a complex environment.

[rrohde]

If ED would involve those who would like to contribute to patch testing, they could easily open a ticketing system and give access to those who help beta test. Don't use the forum here - use the structured approach of a ticketing system that the devs utilize already so they get the most from it.

 

This would alleviate two things: 1) the long wait on release updates for those who want earliy access, and 2) more feedback from a slew of additional new testers that are willing to participate in a meaningful way.

 

Call it "Open Beta" and you're good to go. :)

[SkateZilla]

Normal Users report bugs with decent information, the Beta Testers/Testing Team Confirm and add it to the Bug Report Database.

 

AS for "This is broke, please fix", that's NOT a bug Report.

 

or "This is Broke Still, if the next Update is delayed can we at least have a MP patch"

 

Umm, what do you think is Delaying the next update?, just out of curiosity? oh, yeah, the MP Stability!

 

And Neither of those "reports" offer any type of valuable data, nor system specs or steps to aid in reproducing the bug..

 

not to mention before both of those "reports" the bug was already well documented.

So what's the point in continuing to post 4 or 5 word "its broke, please fix" style threads?

 

:pilotfly:

[agentkgb]

Actually, I think it's fair to suggest that BF3 is a complex environment.

Compared to what?

Compare BFx to Armax, to CODx, to MOHx etc. It's environment may seem complex, but the real deal is in the capabilites of the engine. In a such comparison, I would say, look at what ArmA can deliver with it's scripting support and all the features, which made it's predecessor OFP live almost 10 years with an active community. That is something which BF doesn't have.

The same is true for DCS. Compare it to FSX, CFS, IL-2, Falcon, ROF whatever. That makes sense... And it seems, there are a lot of guys doesn't like the way ED handles DCS, but in fact, they are still on the market, while others are far away. And the community of the real simmers is much smaller then the "connect 'n' killemall guys". There's no sense to compare these things. Even the main purpose of the engines are sooo different. Yes, I do share the "we are the biggest enemies of ourselves" statement :(

 

- KGB -

[Hamblue]

Please, can rejoin the theme discusion 1.2.3 patch? If someshing like continue talking EA/BF3/4X vs ED/DCS:W move to apropiate forum or Webside, and hold for hijack the treath.

 

Ok, the 1.2.3 beta has continue give some problems, expected can resolved on the week, and continue the develop.

It's now in the chit chat section. EA/BF2 etc does relate in how things can be tested in the future. Doesn't mean it will but there are examples in the industry of other ways things can work without threads like this starting. :)

[Hamblue]

I still think it's odd that the release of updated content (as outlined in the 1.2.3 changelog) is delayed so long by only one issue -- netcode.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=99109

 

Netcode is a very big issue. The future platform EA has laid out relies on it. (Combined arms etc). If you keep releasing features without fixing the backbone that the platform will be judged on, you keep making the core problems harder to find. I believe they realize this and are working at it.

[Hamblue]

Do Not Compare BF3's Different Types of Operations to DCS, 1 Button Flick in the A-10C outclasses the entire Aircraft Flight Modelling done in BF3.

Has nothing to do with flight model. BF3 is only an example but between the multitude of players, there is a lot going on that is being handled by the server and clients and they work very well in unison. In many ways it's what combined arms will be in the future, only in sim mode instead of game mode. In terms of pure on-line play there's lots of comparison when it comes to keeping everyone connected and running.

[Hamblue]

You kidding me, right?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=100554

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=100410

 

These your "reports" are only decipherable through telepathy and clairvoyance and are the prime examples of what I am talking about.

That is because if you read all the way back to April/may of last year it was suggested that what is happening now be done then. There was too much being changed without the base problems being fixed IMO. I was even given a warning because I was being harsh towards the developers (admited I probably was).

You picked recent posts way after the fact. Those posts are after the December announcement and no movement.

So no, I'm not kidding you. And the others that also posted weren't as well.

[Hamblue]

not to mention before both of those "reports" the bug was already well documented.

So what's the point in continuing to post 4 or 5 word "its broke, please fix" style threads?

 

:pilotfly:

Agreed Skate.

I see it as the gamers version of a dental patient saying "I know you did the novacane but I still feel the drill"

[Hamblue]

Compared to what?

The same is true for DCS. Compare it to FSX, CFS, IL-2, Falcon, ROF whatever. That makes sense... And it seems, there are a lot of guys doesn't like the way ED handles DCS, but in fact, they are still on the market, while others are far away. And the community of the real simmers is much smaller then the "connect 'n' killemall guys". There's no sense to compare these things. Even the main purpose of the engines are sooo different. Yes, I do share the "we are the biggest enemies of ourselves" statement :(

 

- KGB -

Agent. The ony comparison is the ability to handle a large amount of players with lots going on. You're right that this is a small community of simmers. I watched Novalogic go to hell and it started with basic stuff. We have a great thing going with DCS. We all want it to succeed. But if the title gets much more of an unstable reputation it won't last. Again it looks like they do see it this time. Just frustrating to sit by while they go through the growing pains I guess.

Would you let your little brother continue to get hit in the head with a baseball while you saw what he was doing wrong catching? Or after laughing, would you try to help?

:megalol:

Note: we are on the chit chat forum now so some of this is tongue and cheek: (yeah the baseball in the head part):D

[cichlidfan]

Would you let your little brother continue to get hit in the head with a baseball while you saw what he was doing wrong catching? Or after laughing, would you try to help?

:megalol:

Note: we are on the chit chat forum now so some of this is tongue and cheek: (yeah the baseball in the head part):D

 

That might not be the best example. I have a little brother and let's just say that in the given scenario I might spend a quite a while laughing first. :D

[SkateZilla]

i foresee another thread cleaning coming...