Can we have this little Huey feature in our BS?

[sylkhan]

Enabling/disabling trim rudder option.

Thx

[Azrayen]

Perhaps not exactly the same thing but... did you try to engage the Ka-50's flight director?

 

I do that every time I want the helo not to try to go back to the heading it was when last trimming. I find this very useful and mapped the F/D on/off on my stick.

 

Cheers

Az'

[sylkhan]

Perhaps not exactly the same thing but... did you try to engage the Ka-50's flight director?Az'

 

euh.. what the point with flight director ?...just kidding :)

 

I just don't want to recenter my rudder pedal at each time I trim.

There are some tips like zxxz macro and a little lua program that do the job, but i would like it to be an option (more simple) like for the Huey

 

Thx Azrayen

[Suchacz]

Definitely +1

[Haukka81]

+1 here too :)

 

 

Force hotas user like me love that feature :)

[Griffin]

The option should of course be built in to the sim but the mod for that is simple enough by itself too. :)

[PeterP]

Hi guys! Don't want to be nit-picking, but has anyone noticed that UH-1 has option to disable rudder trim on in default?

 

A little question comes to mind: When a third party developer can have this implemented in a non-complete, beta release, why we Shark pilots have to rely on an un-official solution since, uh... 2009?

 

Because nothing can happen all at once. Things need to be prioritized.

>>>How to unchain the rudder from trim

[Dr_Arrow]

The option should of course be built in to the sim but the mod for that is simple enough by itself too. :)

 

It is, but in certain conditions doesn't produce good behavior - like if you want to trim cyclic during a turn using a rudder at the same time, it will center your pedals and you have to move them again to continue the turn. This produces some "snap" during a coordinated turn . True rudder unchaining from cyclic would work better, so it is really needed even though a mod exists.

[sylkhan]

It is, but in certain conditions doesn't produce good behavior - like if you want to trim cyclic during a turn using a rudder at the same time, it will center your pedals and you have to move them again to continue the turn. This produces some "snap" during a coordinated turn . True rudder unchaining from cyclic would work better, so it is really needed even though a mod exists.

 

+1

[taps]

>>>How to unchain the rudder from trim

 

That's nice but with the Huey solution, non-FFB users can unchain the rudder from trim and still use central position trimmer mode.

[crazyirish93]

It would be nice to have a official way of unchaining the rudder rather having to rely on a mod.

[Rogue Trooper]

+1

[PhoenixBvo]

+1 from me too! PLZ put this on the top of the todo list for BS2!!!

[howie87]

+1 from me. This would be a great feature.

[Haukka81]

+200000000000000000000000000000

 

:P

[Davis0079]

their not going to do it cuz its not how the BS really works...I do like the unchained rudder mod....but I dont think they are going to make it a stock option

 

..without the heading trim on, the rudder trim is still there and its for a reason....unlike a conventional helo in which you need more rudder with additional collective.....in the blackshark you need more rudder with increased speed (because the top blade works better then the bottom one)...so even without the heading trim, I still use the rudder trim alot...like it is in real life....

 

 

if they are going to make anything unrealilistic it should be the addition of heaters on the wingtips.....or perhaps folding wings on the F-15....or mabey afterburners on the A-10....

 

like i said, the un chain rudder mod and all the other work PeterP has done is great...but trying to get unrealistic stuff in a sim that is trying to be pretty realistic is asking a bit much IMO...

[Griffin]

Centering your pedals every time you trim is just as unrealistic as not having rudder trim at all. You can't really compare the functionality to non-FFB joysticks. I'll be getting non-centering pedals soon. Some people even remove centering springs from their Saitek and CH pedals. In these more realistic scenarios the rudder trim is even more of a burden. It should be made optional like in UH-1H module exactly for the purpose of making it more realistic.

[Rotorhead]

Definitely +1!

 

PeterP's little mod is quite nice, but why be forced to use an unofficial mod when we can have it implemented by default?

 

We can see 3rd party modules having some added features compared to ED's own work, like this rudder trim thing in UH-1, or windscreen fogging / freezing on Beczl's MiG, to name few. I hope that ED will make some kind of agreement with those devs, to implement these features into their current modules. That would be really nice.

[159th_Viper]

.....why be forced to use an unofficial mod when we can have it implemented by default?

 

Might be because its all or nothing, ie implement one unrealistic mod and where do you stop? Rather implement no unrealistic mods, however convenient they might be.

[PeterP]

Might be because its all or nothing, ie implement one unrealistic mod and where do you stop? Rather implement no unrealistic mods, however convenient they might be.

 

>This "unrealistic mod" (I call it fix) is not unrealistic - You don't have to recenter your feet when you trim.

 

Maybe useful on a Twist grip-Joystick. - but a unneeded extra workload when using rudders - or having even Rudders with dampers and without centring , like it's very common for helicopter use.

 

 

Edit: Force trim moves the centring force of the used control - so you can leave it where it is at the time where you have applied the Force-trim , but you don't have to work against the springs/dampers/hydraulics.

You can than fly "hands/feet off" while the controls stay at position.

And it doesn't move the controls back to 'center'

The Ka-50 has also a force-trim at the rudders, that work analogue to a Force-trim stick.

When you trim you don't have to put in any force where the rudders are positioned while trimming.

This is uncommon to Conventional light helicopters - but it is a very useful thing in the KA-50 because of it of it's great fin.

 

Have a look the this video and special attention to the knee/leg of the pilot while he trims (and he does it very often. well, in this prototype a button in the lower front of the handle is used ) :

 

Here is the afford of "Trigger-happy" to get this functionality into his cockpit build:

 

 

And here are my thoughts on this to implement this feature and also make it usable for Fixed-wing aircraft - so I'm able to move the rudders also gradually and not always at once:

 

>>>>Force-Trim Rudder (WIP and still in conceptual design phase)

Edited June 1, 2013 by PeterP

[Griffin]

So in conclusion;

 

- The realism of the current implementation is subjective depending on the rudder pedals you have.

 

- There is an option to turn on/off the FFB for joysticks. It's undeniable that we must have the same option for rudder pedals as some of us have "FFB" (non-centering) pedals and some have spring loaded pedals. This explains the first point.

 

- Another module (UH-1H) has this option. Despite the differences in both aircraft's control systems, the effect on realism is the same and again is subjective depending on the rudder pedals you have.

 

Thank god for PeterP's mod. Without it people would be forced to use either Saitek or CH pedals to get the desired behavior. With realistic pedals, flying this sim would be nearly impossible.

 

So please ED. Consider your views on the "realism" and treat different pedal users the same way you have done with FFB stick users.

[DieHard]

Enabling/disabling trim rudder option.

Thx

 

I fly the sim only in full sim. I use CH Products controllers and the CH Control Manager.

 

I trim like it is implemented in BS1 and 95% of the time fly in Flight Director. I trim the cyclic and rudder all the time.

 

What's the problem?

 

Rudder also works in the blades and is nice to have when the hydraulics fail and no blue lighted autopilot helps to RTB and land it. I saw a guy land a battle damaged Shark with the whole tail blown off and a tough struggle to get it back to base. But he landed it on the tarmac at the spot he took off from, beautifully.

Edited May 13, 2013 by DieHard

[Nobody96]

So there are people who like the current implementation and people who don't. To please both, an additional option would indeed be nice.

 

And please don't try to convince the other party of your preferred workaround by pointing out it is realistic. Neither of the two non-ffb trim implementations are realistic. Also since the G940 has gone out of production, you cannot even buy a new ffb-stick anymore, let alone a rudder.

 

so long

Mathias

[Rotorhead]

Might be because its all or nothing, ie implement one unrealistic mod and where do you stop? Rather implement no unrealistic mods, however convenient they might be.

 

As PeterP says, it has nothing to do with lack of realism. Real pilots don't have to re-center their pedals after trimming, so why should we?

 

Yes, if you look at this the way you do, the only right and realistic way is to have FFB pedals. Since there are no such devices widely available on the market (at least I don't know about any), compromises must be made.

 

In the same way, flying without FFB stick is unrealistic. Flying a chopper with 7 inches long stick as well. So are twist grip sticks, keyboards and loads of other devices. Yet DCS supports them, because not every customer has a full-motion FAA approved flight training device in his / her basement.

 

In summary, our hardware is not realistic. Therefore, steps must be made to compensate for this. If we are trying to achieve maximum realism with unrealistic hardware, results may actually be less realistic.

 

This is exactly the case here IMO. While still having to press pedal and act against its pressure even after trimming is certainly not realistic, having pedals centered and yet applying rudder is far more unrealistic.

 

 

I'm not going to start any forum outrage about this, I know ED has their priorities, and as long as I have PeterP's little mod, I'm pretty happy, but I think this one is not that hard to implement (ask Belsimtek if you need advice or two ;)), and would be very useful adition for us helo guys.

[empeck]

+1

 

Just bought G940 and recentering pedals every time I trim is very annoying.