This game is so confusing

[Exorcet]

Omg, this game is so complicated and confusing that its not even entertainment. Its like Im taking an online college course or something.

It's a lot simpler than it looks. Militarizes don't want pilots to be lost in switches while trying to bomb stuff so the aircraft are made as simple to operate as possible.

 

Of course, depending on how much you know before hand, there can be a lot to learn. DCS was not my first sim and I've been comfortable with aircraft for a long time.

 

The current issues Im having:

 

my x52pro slider does not engage speed brakes and Im flying over targets

 

To set the slider to control the brakes, you need to set the Axis Commands menu in the options. You also need to make sure you're setting the controls for the correct mode of play. There is Game mode and Sim mode. Which are you flying?

 

 

I have a really good card, the Asus Matrix 7970... I want the maximum performance settings for the game but am having trouble finding out exactly what that means. Such as vsync... whether to do 8x etc etc... if someone could post a screen shot of completely maxed out settings I would like to set mine up the same.

 

I've heard that CDS prefers Nvidia cards. My experience would suggest thing as my Nvidia computer runs a lot better than my AMD one.

 

There are threads on the impact of the different option settings on performance. I can't really help you I never really bothered optimizing, my computer runs pretty well with most things on High, I think I have HDR and AA off.

[Pikey]

No one mentioned about uncaging the ILS? The controller problem i'm not sure i can help with, I would rebind to another key in the control settings and see if you get what you need.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

No one mentioned about uncaging the ILS?

 

That's not the ILS, it's the flight director bars, they're different.

 

The ILS localiser deviation is displayed on the HSI, glide slope deviation is displayed as a white pointer on the left side of the ADI. This is what's known as raw data, and shows your actual position with respect to the approach path.

 

The yellow bars you can unstow are flight director bars. You pitch and roll until the bars are crossed in the centre; if you maintain them in this position then they'll direct you onto the ILS.

[Cyb0rg]

Omg, this game is so complicated and confusing that its not even entertainment. Its like Im taking an online college course or something.

 

Yes, it's not like an FPS where you start the game and start shooting everything that moves.

Finding out how things work is where all the fun is. Feels very rewarding :smartass:

[NhiTrac]

That's not the ILS, it's the flight director bars, they're different.

 

The ILS localiser deviation is displayed on the HSI, glide slope deviation is displayed as a white pointer on the left side of the ADI. This is what's known as raw data, and shows your actual position with respect to the approach path.

 

The yellow bars you can unstow are flight director bars. You pitch and roll until the bars are crossed in the centre; if you maintain them in this position then they'll direct you onto the ILS.

 

Learn something new everyday. Been flying this for 80+ hrs and I'm still such a noob. Wondering what else I'm doing wrong :joystick:

[rajdary]

All opinions should be heard and considered but being realistic i think that A10C is complex and not suitable for people looking for fast thrills. Its more like enriching your knowlodge about aircraft and how really complex they are but at the same time once mastered its like riding a bycicle. Also keep in mind that so many things learned in this sim will be usefull for other sims and other purposes.

Try and challenge yourself to master it. The reward will be inmense.

[Darkwolf]

This thread is the proof of two thing.

 

They is people that have trouble playing DCS

They is people that ....Well. If i tell, i'll be banned. :P

 

 

I feel really bad about some "just quit" reaction.

[marluk]

There is anecdote about Euclid. If student asked him what the point about learning all this stuff about geometry he would give him permanent suspension. :doh:

Let's don't be that cruel to those guys. First time they feel enjoyment of accomplishing some complex tasks in the sim they will know. Or they will not. Anyway don't be cruel.

[danilop]

Steam distribution.

 

We have to prepare for more post like this when FC3 hits the Steam, although it's way easier than A10C.

 

I'm somewhere between two dominating opinions in this thread. Although it's harsh to say to someone: "dude, it's better to quit", sometimes it is reality and right thing to say. Been in the music industry for too long and I wish that more people realised that for their own sake. You need Simon Cowell cruelty from time to time ...

 

Anyway, gaming (simming) is supposed to be FUN, and first sign that it is time to reconsider what you are doing is when fun part is gone..

 

OP is obviously not having fun and feels pressured to learn the complex system in a10c. It's fair to assume that this form of fun is not for him, if he's honest about it.

[DieHard]

Omg, this game is so complicated and confusing that its not even entertainment. Its like Im taking an online college course or something.

 

Yep, with the Warthog and the Shark, several 3 credit college math courses. Now play with the CH Products Control Manager creating 3 mode controllers profiles, now we are talking graduate courses if nobody is helping. The VRS Superbug is worse from my experience, starting from scratch.

 

Take it a day at a time in bite size pieces. At least the DCS Forums community and its archive are very helpful.

[Feuerfalke]

I feel really bad about some "just quit" reaction.

 

Same here.

Some people have a way of an elitist look on everybody new.

Maybe they don't understand, that every single customer for DCS makes this simulation stronger.

 

 

I agree that DCS has a very steep learning curve and it is frustrating in the beginning. The tutorials have MUCH improved, but they are still to packed and pretty unintuitive. So, if you just stick to the game, you have an overwhelming number of buttons and features and a manual that printed out weights a ton or so.

 

But as impossible as this seems, what really counts is learned in a matter of minutes. Skip the startup, concentrate on the really interesting things. Use the Instant Missions and Active Pause to blow up a few trucks and stuff. So it's not booring at all.

 

The best way to learn DCS, however, is to play it online. There are more servers online with training-missions than actual combat-situations. So hop on to one of those and you are very likely to find some nice people who are always willing to talk you through the most basic stuff and get you airborne in a matter of minutes.

Once you understand how the A-10C works, it's pretty easy to manage 95% of what you need to know for a basic mission. In fact, I have 2 friends who never had any previous contact with a flightsim whatsoever. It took me 30 minutes to get them through the basics including some guntraining. Apparently that wasn't enough, so 10 minutes later, both had figured out, how to lock and fire mavericks and drop bombs with CCIP all by themselves.

 

 

And boy, where they proud :D

 

 

Just don't let yourself get tempted to learn all about creating flightplans, complex navigation, IFR and non-critical stuff in the first place.

[PFunk1606688187]

Same here.

Some people have a way of an elitist look on everybody new.

Maybe they don't understand, that every single customer for DCS makes this simulation stronger.

I whole heartedly disagree. There is a breaking point where popularity threatens to make the marketability of the niche product untenable without some compromises towards the mainstream.

 

In the end courting any and all comers, especially those who don't REALLY want what this product is all about, is a self defeating prospect. What strength does someone who thinks the game is stupid bring us? More money into ED's pockets?

 

Know your customer, and the ones you pick up as a matter of course because you happen to be featured in the vendor with the of the biggest impulse buyers on the internet is not one of them.

 

I wouldn't say quit, but a cynical roll of the eyes is pretty standard at this point. "You must be new around here. This isn't War Thunder." etc etc

 

 

 

The best way to learn DCS, however, is to play it online.

 

Oh thats a laugh. The stability of the online game is such a joke that it would be a worse troll to tell a new skeptical player to try and muscle through the inevitable crashes. 1.2.7 might be our latest "salvation", but until we get the dedi code online is another beast to grapple with, along with the steep learning curve of the sim itself.

 

Lets be honest. None of us play this regularly because its easy on us. Its a dawn til dusk pride swallowing siege being a regular DCS player, and we do it because we're dedicated and we love this with a passion.

 

Passion. Thats a hallmark of the sim world, especially with the buggy twitchy last gen engine kind that stand as the only real option in this modern era of non-Triple-A simming. If he doesn't have the passion to suffer through bugs, crashes, headaches, constant updates breaking old missions, and the obtuse nature of learning to use a combat aircraft with little to no tactical primer available without massive forum searching... there's no shame, because thats what makes simming special. Its not a normal thing and it shouldn't be.

 

I troll the CoD players and the WoW players that want that lowest common denominator type of gaming, but proper study simming a different level where I admit... yea I'm weird, its okay, you don't have to do this. Its not for everyone. There there... :noexpression:

[G00dnight]

 

Lets be honest. None of us play this regularly because its easy on us. Its a dawn til dusk pride swallowing siege being a regular DCS player, and we do it because we're dedicated and we love this with a passion.

 

 

 

You are wrong I play this on and off (badly) but I try to learn something each time and hope that what I learnt last time is still in my tiny brain. :helpsmilie:

it can be done in small doses but is probably easier in long 2 or 3 hour lumps. I have health problems and my wife is disabled so I have little time for flight :( , I tried the Sqn route and found them very helpful but they do require commitment that I cannot give, I fly on the Virtual Aerobatics server online for just flying with no shooting and would like to say thanks to them for the open server :thumbup: and to their members for allowing me to hit them once in a while when I get it wrong :joystick: , It really helps being on their TS to say sorry and hear the "thats ok" or something similar :music_whistling: back.

[PFunk1606688187]

You are wrong I play this on and off (badly) but I try to learn something each time and hope that what I learnt last time is still in my tiny brain. :helpsmilie:

it can be done in small doses but is probably easier in long 2 or 3 hour lumps. I have health problems and my wife is disabled so I have little time for flight :( , I tried the Sqn route and found them very helpful but they do require commitment that I cannot give, I fly on the Virtual Aerobatics server online for just flying with no shooting and would like to say thanks to them for the open server :thumbup: and to their members for allowing me to hit them once in a while when I get it wrong :joystick: , It really helps being on their TS to say sorry and hear the "thats ok" or something similar :music_whistling: back.

 

I'm not really commenting on how much time you spend in the pit as much as the labour one must go through to make it work as well as most mainstream games do pretty much out of the box.

 

Its not about who's the best pilot, its about whether they dedicated their limited time to something that might frustrate and disappoint as often as it is rewarding.

 

But you're entitled to your opinion. :D

[ironmarc]

Well, so if it'll allow you guys to hop on top of your high horses again, like most people like to do, instead of being actually honest, which is a lot more difficult to find, I'll reiterate for EventHorizon:

If you think this simulator is like a boring college class, this is not for you. Maybe you were not very clear about it, you meant something else, but as you put it, it's not a fit for you.

 

And for MadCow, there is really a lot of different people in the world, thanks for that very knowledgeable reminder. I'll also give you one piece of advice, if you're emotionally immature and sensitive enough so that if someone tells you to quit doing something that you really want to do and you'll just quit, them you'll not get anywhere in this world.

 

The complexity and difficulty supposed to have made the player MORE interested, not the opposite. I think that makes it pretty clear, want it or not, what is the profile of the player.

 

It makes it interesting because if you have passion for aviation or if you are looking for something that has authenticity, fidelity you'll find it here.

 

I'm a real life pilot and the only simulator out there that I have tried and that has the level of authenticity I'm looking for, is DCS World.

And ralfidude, who's also a real life pilot and I know that because of his YouTube channel, also agreed with me in this thread, I come to the conclusion that when you love flying, you can easily spot when someone doesn't. And the "this is too complicated, how come people do this for fun?" it's very telling.

 

If he was looking for a Battlefield 4 with planes only, well, it's not that.

 

I am in no way or shape better than EventHorizon because of whatever reason. It's just a matter of being suitable for you or not. That's a huge misunderstanding that some of you are very eager to reach. You guys should really ask yourselves who's the real elitist here.

 

And for those worried about the health of the sim genre, I say that it's a niche market, it'll always have it's place, but DCS is by far the best and most complex simulator ever created. We have dedicated companies that invest money into creating joysticks specific to sims. We are never going to overtake Battlefield 4's market, but let me tell you this, there is a growing trend of players that look for authenticity, realism and fidelity in games and I think DCS World, if it expands to many types of vehicles with high fidelity, it'll nail a lot of players and I believe that's what Tishin thinks as well, that's why he expanded his simulation world to more than just airplanes.

 

Anyway, it's a bit naive to think that you have to convince people that already bought the game to continue playing, through an internet forum to help the company situation. This is the mindset of defending private corporation interests gone a bit too far.

[BitMaster]

Stick to it ! :)

 

Challenge yourself and become something you never thought possible !

 

When I look at myself, flying Flight Sims for almost 2 decades, with pauses in between cause their is a thing called Real Life, I was "SHOCKED" at how far it all went when I hopped back on the train, throwing me in the Ka-50 cockpit and having ZERO clue what to do....

 

Well, my benefit at that point was that I do know all the basics about flying, fixed or rotor, so I said to myself, THIS IS WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR, a sim that has a depth you just can't find anywhere else.

 

I then forgot the idea to have "FUN" for the next few weeks, intend I knew I'd be reading PDFs over and over again, gathering knowledge every time you go over certain pages again and again, printing out certain pages in COLOUR and watching DOZENS of youtube videos to get going...

Well, it took time and I knew it would, so I did not set myself under pressure, I really knew, this is more that shelling out the money and have a ball. You will have a ball if you stick to it and start getting the puzzles together.

 

 

I have meanwhile purchased each and every module, some twice, and to be honest, I still don't understand the A-10C yet as I have not put more than 50h in it yet. I don't expected to be a Warthog driver under 100-150h flight training, reading PDFs and best of all, CHAT TO OTHERS if you can if you find an obstacle that you do not seem to be able to overcome yourself.

 

I started, as said, with the Ka-50, and it is far less complex than the A-10C for example, still, you cannot just hop into anyone of those AC, but the Ka-50 is imho the better start as it has a faster learning curve, there just is less to cover until you can have some REAL BIG FUN, and sometimes have more fun than a moderate A-10C driver with the same hours. The A-10C is the King's Module so far and should be considered as such. No easy going but very well regarding once you start to understand the basics of HOW THIS THING wants to be handled. I do know that it is is a lot harder if you don't own a HOTAS, especially the ThrustMaster Warthog makes a Warthog drivers life easier with all the Coolie Hat commands. You can fly it with a standard Stick-Throttle-Ruddertwist Stick and keyboard how I have to do it, but it clearly is a harder thing to do. Well, be proud if get a kill with all those keys pressed while othewrs just flick a switch... .

 

As for low complexity... the first one I ramp started ad always do so is the P-51 Mustang.

There is little to no avionics in this airplane, other than some good knowledge about carbs and V12s and what you should not do to a cold big CC engine ( having had a Harley in cold areas really helps to understand what you should not do to your gaskets and oil pressure ).

The P-51 is the perfect fixed wing AC if you plan to have fun fast, just flying it demands some skills, heck..this is why we all call this a SIMULATOR and not a GAME.

 

Depending on how many flight sims you mastered before you will know that landing on a carrier is not that hard if you got the feeling for it but it is 10 times harder to refuel in the air... a thing you really really have to exercise over and over. It has never been easy even in flight codes called GAMES.

 

Don't set yourself under pressure, go step by step and join servers where you basically learn to fly and master the overall AC first before working with the weapon systems, radio, counter measures etc.. .

 

Once you got the general idea of how to fly your AC of choice, DO THE TRAINING MISSIONS !!!

One by ONE, after viewing 1 training, go to a training site, set weapons to always replenish and invulnerable so you have time and ammo to hit targets, to get familiarized with the weapon you are currently learning. Step by step you will become an experienced pilot. In 1-2 years you will become an excellent pilot, if you just stick to it.

 

 

Bit

[Guest Izoul123]

Almost a pointless thread, unless you are mentally challenged.

 

It's not a game. It's a hard core sim.

 

Same shit I saw when I showed friends Wing Commander vs Falcon 3 growing up.

 

You are from 1 of 2 areas/logistics/gameplay. Doesn't mean you are bad/stupid people, but you are one of the two. Game. Sim.

 

I support the 'just quit now' group. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

I WISH more would have non A.D.D./Fill in the blank here, but you can't change people.

 

There is a reason 50% of the multi-player DCS are locked servers, and the other 50% of unlocks have populations of 1-4 people. Now why would that be vs a BF/COD server? IT IS NOT FOR THE BRAIN-DEAD AVERAGE JOE.

 

I can prove it. On an multilayer hardcore server, when you log in, and start scoring kills, people will instantly comment saying 'good job, nice kill', EVEN IF THE MISSION IS PLAYER VS A.I., OR PVP, your PVP guy will say "Well done." In a way, hardcore simmers remain the last bastion as an example of good etiquette for the realm of online gaming. This doesn't mean it's for everyone and we should encourage arcade mode/trophy whore/achievement whore style casual 'gamers'. WHY? Compromise to meet 'the norm'. I hate to say it, but 'the norm' are ****ing idiots.

 

You will NEVER have this in 'wing commander' style AKA: COD/BF games. I do play those games, but have always argued they are fake, cinematic, and there is no point of 'stats'.

 

It's an each to his own scenario, and I'm 100% favoring posts that say 'quit now'...because it's hard core truth. This sim series is not for 'game mode blow it up now' mode people, and it's a problem when it becomes 'main stream' and we start lowering our morale/objectives/standards/real life facts/ to cater to people like that.

 

The problem at threat is when you casual bastards show up and 'demand balance/make it insta play/no learning' which negates the idea for SIMULATION in the first place....shit changes, and the next thing we know, it's 'main-steam' and the A10 can no longer use the GUA8 for 'balance/be fair'.

 

Get the **** out of my SIMULATION.

 

Hardcore/expensive mil sims must exist for those of us who want it. We don't want: 'balance/fair/easy to learn/free insta fun for all'/. We want the closeness and feeling of immersion that is close to reality as money will let us buy based on LEARNING AND SKILL, and we don't feel it's unjust/unfair to those who won't ante up to the table. Nor should we compromise.

 

Again, we should be INSPIRING people to achieve greatness/epic-ness via self learning/acquiring goods to do so, vs pandering mediocrity.

 

There is a reason why videos exist like the following 2, and they are for sure inspired by the 'just quit' realm. No causal player would have ever bothered....ever....and my hats off to guys like Ralf and Bin.Orc to testifying. I'm pretty sure if you asked either of these two, they'd probably not complain about 'to hard to learn' issues...

 

Edited January 26, 2014 by Izoul123
i wanted to add vids

[Robin_Hood]

Please, not the game vs simulator debate again :doh:

[Feuerfalke]

I whole heartedly disagree. There is a breaking point where popularity threatens to make the marketability of the niche product untenable without some compromises towards the mainstream.

 

Surprise: The world is not black and white. To make something more accessible doesn't mean to make it unreal.

 

But ok, lets make it in your world and keep it hardcore-simulated - full realistic:

So tell me, in what airforce, cadets are locked alone in a cockpit with a 800 page book and are expected to fly straight away into combat?

 

Are you not tought to fly by an instructor? Mostly on a prop-plane or at least a two-seater? And then you take over bit by bit, get training after training for months and month until you get to finally sit in the real.... simulator?

 

If you want it realistic, that is where you should point your fingers at. If DCS had something like a trainer, be it AI or player-controlled, that would make a difference for a whole lot of people out there already. And it would SUPPORT your precious realism, not diminish it.

 

 

 

Oh thats a laugh. The stability of the online game is such a joke that it would be a worse troll to tell a new skeptical player to try and muscle through the inevitable crashes. 1.2.7 might be our latest "salvation", but until we get the dedi code online is another beast to grapple with, along with the steep learning curve of the sim itself.

 

Passion. Thats a hallmark of the sim world, especially with the buggy twitchy last gen engine kind that stand as the only real option in this modern era of non-Triple-A simming. If he doesn't have the passion to suffer through bugs, crashes, headaches, constant updates breaking old missions, and the obtuse nature of learning to use a combat aircraft with little to no tactical primer available without massive forum searching... there's no shame, because thats what makes simming special. Its not a normal thing and it shouldn't be.

 

Aren't these 2 points sort of contradicting in a way? ;)

 

Anyways, this is an EXCELLENT support for my point: Improving gameplay, stability and accessability would be tremendously important to keep new players flying. Again without lowering realism in any possible way. So our differences are smaller than you think.

 

 

Just because we have accepted DCS inabilities, digged through the rough surface to see its shining neither makes us nor this simulation any better - other than from our own perspective.

For newcomers, we all once were, it's still a dirty piece of rock. Not because it's a flightsim, or no AAA-title, but because it takes time and effort to see the inner beauty. Too much time and effort, if you ask me.

 

I hope a modern multi-role-fighter, EDGE, multipayer-stability, overall performance, multi-crewed planes and trainers, skinning or personalization of your plane and stuff like that will at some point at least fix some of these points and make the game more accessible and attractive. I have bound this to a key: Multiplayer should be a top priority.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Feuerfalke

[r813]

Should we get back on topic and wait until EventHorizon has anymore questions so we can help him out?

[-Pv-]

nice one r813. Stay focused on the guy asking for help and off the soapbox.

 

Many people when asking for help are at first angry and the only way they know how to start is by expressing their anger by asking with a challenge.

After a while they cool down and that's when you can inject specific answers.

-Pv-

[PFunk]

Should we get back on topic and wait until EventHorizon has anymore questions so we can help him out?

 

Needn't bother, I'm pretty sure you guys successfully ran him off.

[Dudester22]

I think the manual goes into to much detail and confuses you more then it helps, it's ok for some things but when you go into to much detail it just confuses people. I watched video tutorials and was able to pick up alot of the stuff, but when I read the manual I was like what the? The other thing is you have to have an interest in planes, if you think you are just going to hop in the pit of an A10C and understand everything then you are kidding yourself.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Dudester22

[danilop]

Manual is excellent. It's what MANUAL is all about: reference. No less, no more.

 

Included training material is lacking though. You cannot train new virtual A10c pilot with couple of hours training.

 

What we need (sooner or later you have to study all of this anyway if you want to enjoy DCS):

 

1) Basic AFM prop aircraft training (flight basics, VFR/IFR procedures)

2) Basic AFM Jet aircraft training (basic combat flight maneuvers, formation flying, etc ...)

3) A-10C detailed systems and combat training.

 

A-10C is serious simulator. You don't jump straight in combat aircraft in RL. You need years of training to do that. Otherwise it's confusing as hell, and it would probably result in catastrophic accidents and death in RL.

 

So, the recipe for confusion is learning the basics first. It takes time. Let's be honest with newcomers. And that's where the biggest obstacle is - you have to love this to be able to educate yourself. There is no way around this, and no amount of support for someone who don't want to be buried in charts, books and training videos for hours, days and months will compensate for lack of dedication.

Edited January 27, 2014 by danilop

[PFunk1606688187]

Surprise: The world is not black and white. To make something more accessible doesn't mean to make it unreal.

Oh good, someone who likes to mis-characterize what people say.

 

I specifically said I disagree with the "any new player makes this community stronger" comment because with Steam you're going to get randoms who buy anything and everything thats on sale and do it all based on one screen shot. Some people really shouldn't have bought it and appealing to those people would be like trying to change the fundamental audience, ergo some players are lost causes.

 

And frankly, if anything your sentiment is black and white. But I guess if you're one of those positive thinkers that doesn't count.

 

I can also speak from personal experience that sometimes the mob can be too big and they can be asses. When TF2 went Free to Play the quality of the average game went down drastically. It used to be that any free weekend was a vacation from good quality play. Then that free weekend became the rest of eternity. No, not every player makes something better. Its not that it can hurt a game thats far more segregated and private like DCS is, its just that it isn't so rosey as all that.

 

 

Aren't these 2 points sort of contradicting in a way? ;)

Not really. We suffer the problems because we're passionate about whats underneath them. People who think its stupid won't see that and will just find it a waste of time. People who buy a study sim on a whim then exasperate about how absurdly complicated it is are hardly that general group.

 

In any event improving multiplayer stability is important for keeping everyone flying, but its hardly going to solve the fundamental issue of "maybe this isn't the game for you".

 

 

 

I am regularly accused of being a negative thinker, far too cynical, etc.

 

Needn't bother, I'm pretty sure you guys successfully ran him off.

 

Uhhh... ummm... wow this is awkward. :huh: