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You know what guys, I must say sorry, I have been part of derailing this tread to this level. I think we should stop arguing with complete stranger about stuff that (in my case anyway) I don't fully comprehend or have any use to in RL since I'm not a pilot. I say we find a good server in HL and go at it. You guys are more than welcome to come and shoot me down, I can be the designated drone. Ok maybe not know but soon since I don't have my comp. Anyway see you guys around in HL.

Well I guess when We( The Few A-10 Pilots ) are minding our own business. Flying easy just hitting those easy ground targets and attacking SEAD targets some thing the A-10 does not have the correct weapons to do. ( I.E Mission makers are adding the SU 25 T with longer weapons ranges) get attacked by aircraft that have radar and long rang missiles unlike the A-10 with its buggered Aim -9s and a gun with no range. ( your own statements and points have been made backing up th Aim-9 s problems and lack of the gun range and bullet effectiveness ) So we pop the canopy pull our trusty Colt 45 from its holster and cap the bad guy through the canopy with two rounds to the head. Ya its so easy to dodge sams and do A2A you should come down in the mud and fly with us:pilotfly:

A2A interests me a hell of a lot more purely for the fact that competing against AI is zero competition, I don't fly A2A offline purely for this fact, if I fly online its against real-unpredictable-dynamic-opponents. VFighterpilots skills are perishable for the very reason that your senses should be sharpened to adjust instantly to the un-expected which you will only get against skilled pilots. Just after a week of not flying intense A2A you know it, after 2weeks the noobs know it, as for AI I could take 6 months out and still kick they're dull sorry ass. A2G is just as tough but doesn't require anywhere near the commitment required that it takes to make A2A teamplay work succesfully. I love A2G but I also enjoy other games, A2A is my drug as I thrive on intense competition.:)

66,22%.............More than adequate confirmation of the title " FLAMING CLIFFS " as opposed to " FLAMING CLOUDS " me thinks........:D

I'll own up for my own derailment too. Prior to this thread I was always puzzeled at why air to ground was so popular. I was the one who commented on this preference with an air incredulity. If I've ticked anyone off, I'm sorry. On the bright side, I have a better understanding and appreciation of what makes you bomber pukes tick! :D ;)

if you get hold of this study it would be interesting to see for sure. in regards to what you say about SEAD i have to disagree (you are correct in a gerneral when referring to most missions on hl though with some exceptions). Yes basically SEAD could be explained in my opinion also very simply the way you did it. However, there are factors like airspace, weather - example cloud cover and wind, terrain, type of target and its capabilities, location, surrounding unknown surface to air, available weapons etc etc which make it much more complicated than what it may seem - if you focus on surviving and completing the mission that is. I for myself like the concept of lockon and i sincerely hope that this will be continued in an enhaced form through DSC. Both A2A and A2G and maybe one day G2G (does this exist ? lol).

This pack is a Beta Zer0 Release... so 1. Report any graphical errors. 2. Report general issues. 3. Suggestions welcome. I am not responsible for srewing up your install - If your not sure about installing this pack then do not. Modman version availible LockonFiles http://www.lockonfiles.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=NewDownloadsDate&selectdate=1189286311#newdlstart Update To reduce lines or ghosting Here is the updated noise texture - just drop it in the temp textures folder to over write the old one. http://www.mediafire.com/?2mswfs9mzxb Better trees and low level textures. Install - Place all textures in your Temp Textures Folder Uninstall - Delete the installed textures from your Temp Textures Folder. Issues - Symetrical effect of trees looks odd at angles (ED Design) - Textures are larger than default - you may notice a slight FPS hit. - Longer load times (bigger textures) - Lines from stronger grass texture effect. - The ground grass texture has proper scale with advaced haze setting only(ED Design). Author Recommends - Use Teka Teka's tree mod with this pack to get the full effect. Thanks for your help 159th_Viper ThomasDWeiss Teka Teka Rocky

Да, повесить можно.

Properly excuted, yes. None of the hornets bug you. :) No difference. They're just as dead. :) Rich

Well, I guess the fundamental doctrine is that you try to destroy the enemy's airforce on the ground. How do you tackle a hornet plague in the summer? Are you chasing each hornet in your garden or are you going to look at the hornet's nest? In the first gulf war, the Iraqi Airforce was essentially smashed on the ground. It is what was left that the F-15's cleaned up. It is certainly not the case that F-15C's would have first cleaned the air for the others to come in. They were definitely not the first to enter Iraqi airspace. (First A2A kill was by an ... F-111 who manoevred an Iraqi Mirage F1 into the ground) You need true A2A air superiority when your primary objective has failed, i.e. root the enemy at the ground. So, I really do not see what else F-22's would be doing - in an offensive role - than trying to smash SAM sites so that other assets can disable the enemy's airfields? Chances are slim that it would face interception by fighters, no?

Thx. but Im no electronics handyman. I'll buy the BU0836 usb interface and save myself a heart attack. :D

According to F-117 pilots that where former F-15C drivers, F-15C has a A2G function but they never use it. Normally dose guys had the hardest time transitioning to F-117 mission because they did not know anything about A2G and all of A2G concepts. I don't know man, I don't think we would see specialize pilots in the future. They also told me ( I don't know if it true or not) that F-22 units train in A2G as much as F-16 unit. AF leadership is trying so hard to get more F-22 from congress they would do anything, even adding A2G to daily F-22 training curriculum and mission. By the way , this only the view from a little mechanic, I don't see the big picture. Like the movie "the crow" and I quote:"I'm a little worm in a big F#$%^) hook", I don't claim to be and expert, just commenting on what I see.

Keep in mine the F-22 practice A2g as well man. The only guys that where one mission fighter pilots are F15C guys and they are crossing to the F-22 in bigger numbers every month. P.S. This days is more about unit mission than aircraft design. Most units are task with both to A2G and A2A this days. At least in my experience.

^^^^^ Quite right Last page http://www.rand.org/pubs/rgs_dissertations/RGSD147/RGSD147.chap4.pdf Although it doesn't say it 'in your face' like the other USAF study (because it studies something different); I've looked for the link to that one but I can't find it right now :D And no, they're not doing RF A2G realistically. Those planes seem to get tasked with stuff they shouldn't be getting tasked with ;) But this RF is about fun, not realism - and that makes it better for them.

@Kuky What I think GG is saying A/A skills are more perishable, not that A/G is easy. You know what that means right? Just like a food that is perishable, if you don't use them they spoil. This isn't something he pulled out of his ass. I wish I had a better source than just saying "I read it somewhere", but I have read an Eagle driver say this same thing with respect to Viper pilots. They have a full course load of A/G while the F-15 guys have the advantage in A/A since this is all they do -- and it shows when the Vipers do ACM/BFM. Think about it this way: how many books, articles, etc. have been written about air to air? I can think of 3 well-known ones right off the top of my head - Fighter Tactics by Robert Shaw, "Aerial Attack Study" by John R. Boyd, and "No Guts, no Glory" by Frederick C. 'Boots' Blesse. Can you name 3 that solely deal with air to ground as intricately as these deal with air to air? If not, there might be a reason for this. ;) This isn't to say A/G is a cake walk and someone can just do in their sleep. Saying its easy is an injustice to all the pilots who have been killed and wounded doing it. However, I do think its easier and is less perishable than air to air. I also strongly believe that it is far easier to understand and become proficient at. Air to air combat has many facets which seem almost contradictory to what seems logical. As Andy Bush from simhq said in one of his articles on ACM, it took him 6 years to feel like he could intelligently speak about BFA and ACM (this is coming from a guy who was an instructor at the USAF FWS and was a mud mover in Vietnam :notworthy:). Also, DEADLIER /= HARDER. Air to ground can get you killed real quick but in many ways this just comes with the territory and isn't a product of being a crappy pilot. I could foresee even a very exceptional pilot being killed simple because air to ground can be so damned dangerous. "Sh*t happening" doesn't necessarily mean something is harder. :) I know that you said that you wouldn't make this comparison, but for any IL2 simmer thinks who thinks modern A/A combat sims are easier than WW2 sims, I have a challenge. You and 3 friends learn to play F4AF until you're comfortable enough to start the campaign (which should be a couple months later :D). Then start the hardest campaign in a 2010 theater against ace level AI and fly a fighter sweep. You will encounter so much crap going on in the air, it will make your head spin. Try sorting a 4 ship of MiG-29s or Su-27s in that mess and THEN say modern A/A isn't difficult -- keeping in mind that this isn't even real people, just AI. As for your RF, are you doing air to ground realistically? Like separate flights/packages for DCA, SEAD, along with your strike elements? How do you handle things like "C3" and FAC? I ask since Lockon is limited in the aircraft you can fly (can the A-10 do SEAD?). If you're doing it realistically, you should be able to reduced many of the dangers, increase your SA and make things easier. What aircraft are you using for which air to ground missions? Lockon doesn't have any flyable aircraft with ground radar, which limits your abilitiy to do things realistically. Something like a F-16 could fly interdiction missions with CBUs or Mavericks and stay high enough to avoid a lot of the danger, as could a multirole MiG-29 counterpart. If you're doing all of this in Hogs and Frogs, then yeah, I can see why it would be dangerous!

Not if you have short range SAM systems like TOR or OSA in convoy as well... seems to me if you claim it's so easy and boring to do A2G and according to you it requires no skill like you A2A jockey :music_whistling: you have done nothing in terms of good A2G mission or grund targets settup so your opinion does not really matter much. You do A2A so stick with it as if you were doing A2G in properly setup missions you would not be that good as you might think. And I will apply one principle now: If you go A2G and have anough aircraft and weapons to deal with all kinds of threats (SAM and IR) and have time to loiter, you could say it's relatively easy to engage A2G because you can take time and deal with SAM first from distance using stand off anti radiation weapons, then get in closer but keep altitude and take our IR air defenses... then you can enage remainig targets... you'd call this droping bombs on trucks which you seem to think is what A2G is all about :smilewink: You apply same principle in A2A and you have good numbers are the same way you have time to loiter A2A is also very easy and quite frankly very boring because it is very repetitive and limited in what you can do in terms of engagement. Most LockOn servers that provide A2A are actually very arcade. They are based on continuos taking off... engaging other aircraft... firing radar active missiles and turning tail when being engaged... if you survive and even better, get a kill or two, you run home to rearm and refuel in 1min then go off again and repeat the same process over and over again. Talking about repetitiveness. What is even more reppetitive is that if you keep doing this enough time against same people you learn how they fly and what you need to do to take them out. Element of surprise can only be achieved when you fly unfamiliar route, map and mission. This in A2A is not the same especially if you fly same server with same map non stop. In the end GG I am not going to claim what is more fun as this is just personal taste (some like repetition and arcade some not) but you claiming A2G is easy and requires no skill is crap... you talk very opiniated and with some of your comments you start unsulting others... me being one of them. You might have some knowledge but when it comes to opinions you can be just way off. :pilotfly:

It started like a typical argument like everybody gives me. Then it got heated...and then somebody chose to make it a personal fight, so I said screw it, I'm not giving it to the public.:mad: And I'm sticking by that choice until I get some forgiveness. I am doing the same thing with this model as EricJ is/has done with his models in the past, so if you still got a problem with how I manage these models, well then you got a problem with Eric as well...

If you look at the angular extensions on the lines of the hill on the left of the picture next to the very large breasted topless lady you can clearly see its not LO's terrain.

not yet.. still on workshop.. check SIM-MOD

Missile slider is screwed. The programmer behind it left the team several patches before 1.12b and thus it seased to work properly with other values but 50% and 100%. Its an old and known issue.

I've had that happen too, I took out a Tor with guns and no ECM or chaff, not maneuvering, nothing, all in a Flanker, a plane I suck in. Strange things.

that would be very kind

I can polemize - it is more likely that unpredictable things you will find in AG mission, cause even one man with bazooka can shoot down your machine which isn't super speed machine. Su25T with its speed can somehow be still alive, but A10 which is slow like turtle it is tragic I think. In AA you can go to 8000 meters, and from ground only sams can you shoot down. Also you have radar which shows you opponents. In AG you have nothing, must be very careful. :E

Top man Rocky! They look great, I just took a quick spin in the hills, and the biggest thing for me is the grass, it adds so much depth... Excellent work :thumbup: