wilbur81

Was he a C and/or Lot 20 driver? You might have him privately contact the Devs if he's willing... it might help us get the FM even closer. They've certainly got their own SME's that, apparently, are content with AoA/G-onset for now.

YESSSSSS!!!!! Markus' podcast is my favorite fighter jet podcast, and it isn't even primarily about fighter aviation.

Now THAT is an interesting document for sure.

Are you KIDDING ME, Eagle Dynamics?!?! Well done! What a simulation! Absolutely stunning...

Yeah, I've done that quite a few times when taking the Eagle or Viper for a spin after all my Hornet time... squeezing that trigger and no missiles. It seems that the whole "simplicity" thing is mostly about what you're used to. I find the Hornet simpler than the Viper as I love that my UFC has all the modes/displays right there in the scratch pad windows. I find the Viper's DED complicated because it's small, kind of out of the way, and has many sub-menus that have to be navigated with the old 4-way switch. I also find the Hornet's HUD WAY simpler... whereas the Viper's displays a good deal more information... likely in an effort to make up for only two MFDs? But again, if I'd started with the Viper, I'm sure and say the opposite.

For anyone who's curious about sustained turn rate comparisons between our Hornet and Viper in the latest O.B., here's a simple setup with two tracks of me flying a 360 deg turn. I saved my first test with both jets (my first Viper turn was abysmal as I've not flown it for a long time). In subsequent tests I turned off the G-LOC, but the one saved here it was on and, interestingly, even with having to let up on the pull in the Viper so as to not G-Loc, I was still about 1 to 1.2 seconds quicker around the circle. After several tests, I'm averaging a 1 to 1.25 to second advantage in the Viper over the Hornet... which is how it should be. So, the STR of the Viper appears to be higher than the Hornet with the parameters flown here. But this was VERY rudimentary testing. A slower speed turn entry in the Hornet would've yielded a quicker (or at least smaller) circle, but wouldn't have been sustained and I'd have ended up at <120 kts pretty quickly. Additionally, a better Viper driver could've found that corner speed WAAAYYY better than I and probably shaved off another half second. Anyhow, others with more time/interest can mess around with this little mission setup if they'd like. 1STR-ViperHornet.miz STR-16C.trk STR-18C.trk

Thanks, Big-T.

Hey, fellas. Just out of curiosity: When exporting any DCS display like this, with Helios or otherwise, can you still play in the alt+enter full screen mode in order to benefit from that nice little FPS boost? Thanks in advance!

Nice That's interesting that you fly a jet "almost exclusively" in MP that you find ugly and believe to be over-performing. Do you get satisfaction out of those "anytime" and "without a sweat" victories over those underperforming Vipers, knowing that you have (in your assessment) an unfair advantage?

Thread solved.

"Show us a video of our current Hornet out-rating our current Viper. No paddle switch allowed. Make sure you confirm it's the latest O.B. version, weapons loadouts, pylons, and fuel weight as well when you do your testing. And no TacView...which gives notoriously strange numbers. It must be in-game."

All Lot 20's have the EP -402 engine... that is correct. As for your statement: "is being significantly outperformed by its draggier brother" -> Prove it. Show us a video of our current Hornet out-rating our current Viper. No paddle switch allowed. Make sure you confirm it's the latest O.B. version, weapons loadouts, pylons, and fuel weight as well when you do your testing. And no TacView...which gives notoriously strange numbers. It must be in-game. I've fought a good number of Vipers in BFM. IF I win in gunzo BFM, I NEVER win by rate. I one-circle and enter the fight below 370 kts. If I get the kill, I'm typically at or below 200 kts. And I'm not a "paddle-puller." Try it for yourself: The current DCS Hornet bleeds like a pig at or below 370 kts. Again, my guess is that the Hornet, entering into a fight at 450kts with the paddle pulled can probably match rates pretty close with a Viper depending on configurations... but it destroys the airframe, which is one of the reasons why it is limited to 7.5 g. The Hornet is a VERY capable 9 G aircraft in Finland... but they've got a tweaked FCS and don't have to worry about salt water and Carrier crashe.... I mean landings. People like to talk a lot about the thrust to weight on the Viper being better than the Hornet... but it depends doesn't it? The -402 C Hornet has more thrust than a Viper, but it is also heavier and draggier... except under certain conditions. If I enter a fight in the hornet with no stores remaining and only 4500 lbs of gas, I'm going to have a slightly better T/W ratio than the adversary Viper whose carrying 85-90% fuel, 2 winders, and a couple of AMRAAMS... And I agree... the Typhoon will be the BFM death of us all.

That's true. As a husband, father, and coach... I only have time to fly master one DCS module as those former three things are WAY more important. If the Viper had come out before the Hornet, it'd be the jet I'd fly (and I was a day one pre-purchase guy with the Viper... and there's a 1:18th scale Viper hanging over my simpit, and I've flown the Block 30 simulator for the real thing at an Air National Guard base here in the states, and I have a good friend flying Vipers at Shaw.... I love the Viper, it was my second love after the Eagle). But a quick click of your activity stream reveals that you're a Viper guy: perhaps you like the generic profile pic so that you can appear neutral? Sorry Devs, we're off topic for sure. **** And I've watched the FPP episode with Wags MANY times. That "guessing" on the Hornet flight model is 100% based upon SME feedback and all the documentation they can get their hands on. In other words, these are HIGHLY educated guesses... not "we're Hornet fan-boys so lets make it like a Raptor." Invitation is still there, SCP: Show us a video of you out-rating our current Viper with our current Hornet...and no cheating with the paddle switch. PS - It's been discussed ad nauseum around here, but I still wonder how many people judge the Hornet as outsiders because they are flying against someone in the Hornet MP that crushes them because they are using the paddle switch/g-limiter override?

Show us our current Open Beta Hornet out-rating our current (and now improved) Open Beta Viper... then look our Devs in the eye and say, "you guys just guessed on the Hornet's performance." Finally, prove to the folks here that the current Hornet (which is still being updated, just like our Viper) is over performing "like crazy" based upon those EM charts for the Lot 20 you don't have.

Indeed.

Canadian Hornets did not/do not have a 9G FCS allowance... nor do Canadian Hornets have any other structural upgrades that are out of the ordinary. As to the conversation about the paddle switch - I stand by my own conscience that, in a video game environment, I will not EVER fight someone using it as it feels to me like cheating. However, the real world application would have to be addressed by Hornet pilots and/or Boeing. It is obviously there for a reason (probably to save it from the ground)... maybe to avoid other kinds of imminent death (enemy missile impact, midair, etc.), but it seems anecdotally clear that the paddle is never used by pilots in training... It'd be cool to hear from some real Hornet drivers what the training syllabus said about the paddle. As far as keeping it in the sim, we need it there in the name of realism. But if you play MP in the Hornet and beat a guy because you pulled the paddle, does that really feel like an accomplishment to anyone? Sorry TBT, we've gotten off topic... You'll just have to buy the Hornet module and try it out for yourself. It is an amazing aircraft...

And Heatblur had only one job...

You probably won't be able to find those hard numbers... and you probably won't find anyone here who can. The Lot 20 C Hornet with the GE f404-402 enhanced performance engines requires the "Dash 210" -210 performance manual... which appears to be nearly impossible to find. Not even sure that ED has access to it. Needless to say, if one does find F-18 performance data out there, it is probably for the A model with the -400 engines.

Haha. I stand corrected.

Feel free to merge threads if necessary... are we getting any closer to a fix for the Hornet's locking up missiles over large RCS targets? It makes the TWS stepping feature pretty dicey when I have 3 bandits 20 miles in front of me and stepping from one L&S to another locks my (or other) jets missiles instead... particularly when in AUTO mode. Other than this one thing, the DCS APG-73 is working quite well. Thanks!

It depends greatly on the speed he was at in the turn. If he was at 475+ kts with pylons, depending on fuel weight, he can sustain 7.5-7.6 until he runs out of gas. Now if he was at 350kts or slower, there's no way he's going to sustain that G in the Hornet for more than a few seconds. Try it yourself. Just an FYI - As an avid Hornet guy (who never uses the paddle switch in a fight), I almost never BFM above 380kts and I NEVER sustain a 7.5G (or max G available) turn in a dogfight. AoA is the strength of the Hornet and 7G+ is not good for AoA. I beat guys by pulling between 5 and 6.5 G's, at speeds between 125-360 kts. Viper guys come zooming in at 450+ kts, and I one-circle them if I can. I NEVER EVER EVER use the vertical when in the Hornet in BFM unless it's towards the earth.

DCS does model the effect of pylon & weapons drag for the Hornet. Please realize that, if you're impressed with the Hornet's performance in BFM against you, it has been out for a long time now and folks (like me) that have flown it almost exclusively and love to do Gunzo BFM over and over and over are actually really pretty good at it. A second possibility is that you were fighting a (in my opinion) 'cheater' who was pulling the paddle switch. But even still, our DCS Hornet bleeds energy like crazy if you aren't very disciplined with your AoA.

The same for me as well. Vulkan would be WAY more valuable to me right now than any module that I don't currently own... and I only own a few by comparison to many others.

Indeed. It will be interesting to see if this is ever implemented for the Viper's stores. My understanding from talking to a couple Viper guys is that the pilot has to do the over-g calculations in their head for the stores/weight that they're currently carrying whereas the Hornet's FCS makes these g-limiter calculations for the pilot. Without a true FLCS or FCS, I'm sure the Eagle driver has to make all those stores/over-g calc's in his head as well.

I'm really liking the new, subtle engine tweaks. It seems like we went from an A model F404-400 to a proper C model F404-402. Keep up the good work, Team!