Harlikwin

Well it was certainly also described as being limited all aspect like the R60, though in a much larger package.

They mention the ALR45 in a recent update so I'd guess its close that being one of the big differences. And I think they might have said it will come before the F4. The bigger question in my mind is if the iranian cat will actually come with the correct missiles AND the limitations of those missiles since they were ad-hoc integrated. (i.e. no SEAM for the iranian sidewinders)

This is the classic hoggit trap that ED has fallen into. They think the average DCS gamer needs an F22 to splash Mig21's. And well sadly they might be right, but in reality CW stuff is where its at. Docs are accessible, so you can do a decent simulation. And you have something approaching airframe parity back then. Rather than the sad "warcrimes" use case for most "moderns stuff". less fancy than the the 104 then, lord thats sad.

LOL no they aren't not at all. Literally anyone with any passing familiarity with how IR or how IR missiles actually work will cringe when they see what DCS does with them (so like 99.9 of DCS customers think its great, but thats the dunning kruger use case, since the entier user base has almost no clue). The entire DCS IR model is terrible and thats me being nice. They model absolutely none of the issues that IR missiles deal with. Nor do they get any part of "all aspect" right at all. Its a meme. And don't get me started about IR CM's because thats the worst part of it. Like you realize that there are more than a dozen versions of the Aim9M... And the Cold war ones should goobble up soviet IR countermeasures right? So for any "cold war" scenario the 9L and 9M should basically be home on flare? And there was a crash effort to "fix that" prior to GW1, which well succeeded, but none of those versions got to the gulf "because reasons". Of course you didn't, because the average DCS guy has no idea about that. Like all of this is literally the ideal use case for IRST stuff. At high alt you have 0 clutter, you are looking at space (cold) you have a very hot (supersonic/AB) target, and yeah in this literally ONE use case IRST's from that era "worked". You put clouds in the equation, you reduce the speed, you don't use AB (Though AB detection is basically worthless past a few thousand feet) and you add "aspect" to all of this, you end up with systems that sucked. Especially when "weather" was involved, or "looking at the ground" was involved. Literally look at how "well" the IR falcon missile system worked (hint it didn't).

I mean the saddest part being some stuff like the chap is like a quick lua change for the missile Or the "the man with the tube on his shoulder" though ED will claim making a 20million poly model is needed...

Honestly HB probably cant find docs to do one either way, and ED can't model the core physics to make IRST work, given how bad the current IR missiles and IRSTs actually are.

Yeah like the high alt high speed use case is basically "easy mode" for any IRST. Like if your IRST can't do that its absolute trash. Also any published detection ranges vs an SR71 while likely accurate should be divided by 10 for detection ranges for any other "real" target. As for Iran IDK, just what cooper said about it. And the fact they never got it. So either it wasn't for sale, or it was trash.

So F1 is currently unsupported?

IDK, the iranians didn't want the OG IRST per cooper. And honestly their #1 use case was to use it vs the mig25 at high alt and high mach which is basically the perfect situational scenario for early IRST's i.e. one where they should work well. If the tomcats didn't impress them for that use case, well that speaks volumes IMO. Yeah, I'm not gonna say modeling IR is "Easy" but how DCS is frankly criminally oversimplified. But the bulk of the user base doesn't know, doesn't care just like most of the other systems simulations that are bad. The fox2 simulation/simplifications make me wanna cry. Yeah, without a doubt the AWG9, esp in lookup (Iranian use case mostly when they bought em) is gonna dramatically outperform early IRST's.

Not really complaining about Aerges. But yeah unfortunately missile API stuff is largely ED land, though to be fair the 530D and M2k radar seem to actually be done fairly realistically when it comes to stuff like chaff and I think that mostly was Razbams work not ED. But thats also on the Radar side, which seems to fall on the 3rd party.

They did and they didn't. It really is down to the use case.

There is so much about IRST stuff that isn't modeled in DCS and for all practical purposes the OG tech from the 50s/60's has nothing to do with modern systems. I seriously hope ED steps and actually models some of this. At least for the older systems the limitations are at least known or can be pretty easily worked out from basic principles of how IR detectors work. Though given the fact all IR missiles and IRST currently work through clouds (hint, they shouldn't) doesn't give me alot of hope on this front as ED doesn't seem to have people that understand IR stuff.

Back that up please Everything I've read per pilot accounts was the cryrano was not usable in lookdown. Hence necessitating shoot up tactics of which the giraffe is a variation. And yes ingress at low level to keep the phoneix at bay was also a factor.

I'm well aware. Hence the comment that I hope that Aerges will go whole hog and do a Razbam level "sim" of the radar.

The reason was both. Since the Cyrano didn't really work well in lookdown. Well, when the 21 was fresh it was better than it is now. It basically works in lookdown when it shouldn't. And of course it doesn't see clouds etc. Like literally the only really relevant modes anymore are the ECM mode (which is a whole other can of worms) and the IFF mode. Using LA mode turns it into a lookdown radar ironically enough. So, IMO the 530 should have issues being used against lower targets and at lower alt just due to how its conscan seeker works. Thats not at all modeled in DCS in general. Moreover the F1 radar should struggle with locks under those same conditions and for the most part it doesn't. Like once its locked it stays locked in my experience unless you notch it. Which well is kinda right, but not the whole story. At low alt its gonna suffer alot from SLC/MLC and shouldn't be very good if its looking ahead.

530IR currently is rear aspect only, and in that regime is worthless cuz the range is like 1-2miles. If they fix it to be all aspect you should be able to get locks at around a few miles frontally and longer vs targets in burner (ED's approximation of "supersonic")

Yeah you can lua hack modern missiles onto the mig21 for example and it does quite well with them. Its not gonna win a turn fight with a viper etc, but as long you can get to the merge you got a pretty good shot. And IRL thats more or less what the indians and romanians have done with their various mig21 upgrades.

Well... Funny you should mention that iraqi "story". Cuz that "story" originated with the Iranians, and even Tom Cooper that originally related it has recanted it later. The RDM had to be modified to work with 530D. And the Cyrano was not capable of guiding it AFAIK. With regards to the SHAR, that was what it was. My point about the "cold war" is that politically speaking it basically ended somewhere in the early or mid 80's. By like 1987 any chance of war was a political impossibility. Though amusingly there was a very good possibility of things going warm in 83.

Yeah "cooled" in dcs means its all aspect... So looks like someone fat fingered it between the two missiles. Easy fix at least.

Problem is that "wishlist" is pretty much "ignored deathlist" on the forum. So thats why I don't want this there. Oh I 1000% agree, the level of detail in the F1 is amazing (esp engine stuff). Which is why I want the radar on the same level. Even if the end result is its not that great. For me the F1 so far is amazing, amazing, amazing, get to the radar... OOF Fc3 with a texture? please fix it.

Yeah thats bad...

nope... thats the road to heresy. We are 1000% on the same page.

Yeah the radar is way overperforming per historical accounts. Hopefully it gets fixed so its worse.

Honestly this should be part of the autostart. Like 100pts for Aerges for including it, but its one less thing I want to mess with for autostart.

The radar range select and azimuth select binds don't really work. It should increment from 60-7 and 60deg-the lowest one. Currently its just min/max no increments, i.e 60/7 for range. please fix.