Mig-15? You're kidding me...

[Basco1]

Looking forward to seeing a few historic skins for the Mig-15,but I guess firstly a flyable model would be nice,are the devs going to create a flyable Mig-15,does anybody know?

[IvanK]

The only thing I don't really have are climb rate or time to climb graphs for the MiG. Sadly the only graphs I have for the Sabre for time to climb are for a slightly heavier F-86F-40 with drop tanks which obviously climbs badly. Moreover, it is this data which is often quoted as the Sabre's time to climb.

 

At any rate, most of what I see on the internet quote the MiG's max speed at sea level as 668 mph with one book source claiming 693 mph. The hard-wing Sabre is almost always quoted as having a 695 mph top speed. Climb at combat weight for the MiG is often quoted as 10,080 - 10,100 fpm at SL with the Sabre's varying from 9,300 - 9,600 fpm.

 

The best piece of pictoral evidence is this energy diagram. I have been looking high and low for a source but sadly, I cannot find one. I have a blurry jpg of the diagram and a clearer (but non-English) version (which I cannot for the life of me figure out how to attach because wikipedia makes direct-linked pictures tiny as crap) as well.

 

Original:

 

Clearer, Japanese version:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Energy_Maneuverability_diagram.jpg

 

You can see for yourself where the planes each have their strengths. I assume this diagram is at or near SL with combat weighted (~50% fuel) airplanes since the turn rates are so high.

 

This is actually a pretty famous Fan diagram (Doghouse plot). the source is John Boyd himself. Its one of the slides he used to teach Energy concepts.

 

Here is the Wikipedia version:

Edited August 4, 2014 by IvanK

[Buzpilot]

Even Excellent I doub't this would be any close to real world. (High skill)

2 23mm fired, two hit (100%)

 

Edited August 4, 2014 by Buzpilot

[westr]

I've noticed a massive difference in behaviour of the sabre against the mig since 1.2.9.10. Just flown mission 2 flight suit attitude and shot down 4 migs, Great fun. I have been able to stay with the mig through most of their manoeuvre's I loved the way the sabre felt upon release but was frustrated by its performance. Now im 100% hooked.:)

[Basco1]

Yes,much more stable in flight now,someone's been busy.

[SuperSix2]

Same here!!!! Just got 4 mig kills. It's a good thing my flight didn't form up haha they probably would have been laughin at the boner smile I had all the way home to the airfield.

[SgtPappy]

Did they change how the MiG flies? And here I thought I was getting better :P

[kontiuka]

I'll have to try it. Been driving myself crazing trying to down a Mig-15 at "good" level. Best I could do was force him into the water.

[SgtPappy]

I'll have to try it. Been driving myself crazing trying to down a Mig-15 at "good" level. Best I could do was force him into the water.

 

I played today before heading downtown and I found that the MiG was still flying the same as before. Rockets into the sky, tonnes of energy, and I'm out of gas before I know it.

 

I keep trying and by the 3rd attempt, I'm holding energy better, and finally at the 5th attempt, I shoot him down in under 5 minutes! I thought I was getting better but if everyone else says the MiG got easier, well I don't mind that either. I attached my track, so you can compare how the MiG flies.

5 min excellent MiG-15 kill.trk

[Veles]

The only thing I don't really have are climb rate or time to climb graphs for the MiG.

Оfficial data on the MiG-15bis taken from the technical description of the aircraft.

[kontiuka]

I played today before heading downtown and I found that the MiG was still flying the same as before. Rockets into the sky, tonnes of energy, and I'm out of gas before I know it.

 

I keep trying and by the 3rd attempt, I'm holding energy better, and finally at the 5th attempt, I shoot him down in under 5 minutes! I thought I was getting better but if everyone else says the MiG got easier, well I don't mind that either. I attached my track, so you can compare how the MiG flies.

Thanks. Kudos on the kill. Even more so since you don't have TrackIR (I'm guessing). I finally got my "good" kill last night. I'm getting better at spotting him. It's so true ... lose sight - lose the fight. I'll play a few more times at that level to make sure it wasn't a fluke and then up the AIs skill.

[WinterH]

Just tried again after weeks, inpired by this thread :P

 

Well it didn't seem really different but... well what matters is I actually bagged my first MiG-15 :P.

[mjmorrow]

This weekend, I can't wait to try to battle it out with the Mig-15bis, again. So long as the Sabre stays very fast, she seems pretty safe. My big problem is spotting the Mig-15, once the fight gets low. Planes are seriously hard to track in DCS World. I am used to plane spotting in ROF, BOS, IM, and CLOD. Now I have to just get used to spotting planes in DCS.

[kontiuka]

This weekend, I can't wait to try to battle it out with the Mig-15bis, again. So long as the Sabre stays very fast, she seems pretty safe. My big problem is spotting the Mig-15, once the fight gets low. Planes are seriously hard to track in DCS World. I am used to plane spotting in ROF, BOS, IM, and CLOD. Now I have to just get used to spotting planes in DCS.

Ya, it's a big challenge keeping visual. I'll glance at him for a second or too then glance front to make sure my Sabre isn't doing anything funky then glance back.

 

Also, if you've lost visual, it's safe to say he's right on your butt. In that case, I do a quick roll with my head over my shoulder to get a better visual of my six.

Edited August 7, 2014 by kontiuka

[SgtPappy]

Thanks. Kudos on the kill. Even more so since you don't have TrackIR (I'm guessing). I finally got my "good" kill last night. I'm getting better at spotting him. It's so true ... lose sight - lose the fight. I'll play a few more times at that level to make sure it wasn't a fluke and then up the AIs skill.

 

You're correct, I don't have TrackIR and I don't see it in my budget anytime soon. That's why it's really important for me to keep icons on. So far I haven't been able to get a kill that fast again. Second fastest time was 13 mins.

[WinterH]

I don't have TrackIR either but, being a lefty has it's advantages too, since my left hand is using the stick, my right hand is free and always on mouse, keeping the virtual head on a svivel :music_whistling:

[DieHard]

Preface: I know the AI Mig-15 is still a WIP so don't get me wrong.

 

Wow! I was glad to see that I'm not the only one around here having to rekindle my relationship with my ejection seat from the Mig-15. I've tried 1v1, 2v2, added missiles to the equation, changed fuel quantity, you name it, I have not won a single engagement.

 

The only thing I've been able to do that I would even consider a success is to wait till he's in the climb or at a front aspect of some sort and hit the deck running.

 

I've only had one time that I put any holes in him and one time I had a direct hit with a missile, but as we know, that had basically no affect :doh:. He keeps pushing me past the abilities of my aircraft and turning it into an energy fight. I don't consider myself to be a real living Ace, but I can normally hold my own, say P-51 vs Dora or F-15 vs Mig-29/Su-27.

 

I'd like to hear your guys thoughts on this...or maybe I'm just venting. :D

 

In SP, getting behind that guy is doable, but wow, all he does is fly continuous loops in all planes of 360 degrees. The P-51 SP fighting the AI guy is just about the same conditions.

 

I slow down to get inside his turn, hard to do without stalling.

 

Is possible to fake him out and he will run into the ground not having enough altitude to recover at the bottom of his arc.

 

Killing him even with a good missile hit and he is still flying!

 

A couple bursts from him, I'm disabled, bailing out.

 

I use my throttle's hat for my views looking out the cockpit. The basic precept of combat flying is NEVER lose sight of the bogey---EVER!

Edited August 8, 2014 by DieHard

[JMasterFlash]

I don't have TIR either, also relying on my hat skills, it makes it tough, I have heard that 1.2.10 makes some difference but I've been putting some time in on the Dora and mustang since then, I'm not giving up yet.

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

Well I'm glad the MIG15bis can out climb the F-86F.

 

When I saw they were making the "F"Sabre version I was worried the sabre would be able to out climb, out dive, out turn and out run the MIG.

 

I love the idea of two planes equally matched with one better in the vertical and the other better in the horizontal. Makes for a good close and the best pilot can win.

 

I'm in Australia and we write dates day/month/year. So I got up this morning excited to buy the steam version available on the 8.9.14. and I've been wondering all day why it isn't unlocking yet... I just realised 8.9.14 means 9.8.14. DAM gotta wait till tomorrow.

 

Oh the humanity!

Edited August 8, 2014 by Dirty Rotten Flieger

[JMasterFlash]

Well I'm glad the MIG15bis can out climb the F-86F.

 

I love the idea of two planes equally matched with one better in the vertical and the other better in the horizontal. Makes for a good close and the best pilot can win.

 

 

You'll see what we mean when you get it. I like a challenge as well, but what the mig-15 is capable of isn't -to my knowledge- possible.

 

I fought him again last night with 1.2.10, about the same for me. I get in good and give him a fuel leak, than he pulls away from me and I can never regain the energy that he maintains. He will climb until he "stalls" (gets down to 120kts and floats like a balloon) than drops 100 ft and climbs again like he was doing 300kts already.

 

I know people get kills against him on expert, I have as well, but I challenge someone who has done that to tangle with him for more than 4 turns and see if it's possible after that point.

 

Bottom line for me, if I don't kill him in the first 3 turns, I might as well start over or start running to turn on him again.

 

I want to make something clear here, I'm not complaining, I'm not disappointed in what bst has done or anything like that. Quite the contrary. I love flying the f-86, even against a 15 that seems like it has 25,000lbs of thrust.

[kontiuka]

I seem to be able to consistently get a kill on "good" level now. Going to try "high" tonight. I never chase him in a climb unless I have a lot of energy. Instead, if he pulls one of his immelmans, I'll just do a lazy high yo-yo just to try to minimize the height difference between us and to help keep me somewhat behind him. Seems to work for me. This was after flying 40 hopeless and frustrating battles.

[mjmorrow]

The Mig-15bis is a neat opponent. l can't wait to sim fly the Mig-15bis. When that day comes, the Fagot will have stiff competition, though. I really find the Sabre to be a very likable machine.

 

The initial acceleration of the Sabre can be an issue, an issue best avoided by keeping the Sabre moving fast. Once the Sabre is moving fast, she can point her nose down and get away from a Fagot. This is really reasuring.

 

The gun sight on the Sabre is utterly fantastic. I like the armament of the Sabre. I like the handling characteristics of the Sabre. Now, I am sure that I will also come to enjoy sim flying the Mig-15bis. I will appreciate her unique advantages, as well, once she is released. Still, I will always be happy to sim fly the Sabre.

Edited August 9, 2014 by mjmorrow

[leafer]

It must be dejavu for people who bought P-51D. Yo-Yo explained that the AI simply manages energy to perfection; does not make mistakes. We'll just have to wait for manned Bis.

[SgtPappy]

Yea I have no idea how people thought the MiG got easier after the update. It flies exactly the same for me. Just had 5 attempts now and ran out of fuel every time. Good practise though.

[mjmorrow]

Well I'm glad the MIG15bis can out climb the F-86F.

 

When I saw they were making the "F"Sabre version I was worried the sabre would be able to out climb, out dive, out turn and out run the MIG.

 

I love the idea of two planes equally matched with one better in the vertical and the other better in the horizontal. Makes for a good close and the best pilot can win.

 

I'm in Australia and we write dates day/month/year. So I got up this morning excited to buy the steam version available on the 8.9.14. and I've been wondering all day why it isn't unlocking yet... I just realised 8.9.14 means 9.8.14. DAM gotta wait till tomorrow.

 

Oh the humanity!

 

Yeah, the more time I spend with the F-86F, the happier I am with the AI Mig-15bis. The Fagot can get away in a climb, the Sabre can get away in a dive. Nether approach to making a getaway is perfect, though. If an opponent has a lot of energy, making a getaway is easier said than done. A Fagot has good initial acceleration in a dive and can stay close to a Sabre, for a little while. A Sabre is not as good at climbing as the Fagot, but the Sabre can climb with a Fagot, for a little while. PvP Sabre vs Fagot multiplayer matches will be very exciting and challenging, for both sides.

Edited August 9, 2014 by mjmorrow