How to Takeoff in the Dora

[Crumpp]

jcomm says:

Regarding density, I don't think DCS models all of the "variables" that contribute to it IRL ( see here for one of the many sources you can Google for )... Namely I really don't think humidity is taken into account, at least we do not even have the chance to set T and Td, but temperature and pressure are used for sure, and you can play with your mission settings, setting a constant QFE / QNH and varying T, or the way around, or varying both.

 

Aircraft performance calculations typically assume 0% humidity and most of your performance charts are built around that assumption.

[WelshZeCorgi]

I think it's important to let everyone new to the plane know that when you take off/land in an FW190, you have to lock the tailwheel before starting your take off run, and after touching down on landing otherwise you just rudder your way into a crash.

 

So for those who have trouble, pull your stick back (all the way back and keep it pulled all the way back) and neutralize the tailwheel to lock it.

[Bucic]

The manual says:

6. The best takeoff procedure is to hold the tail down by pulling the stick toward you until sufficient speed for rudder control is attained and then to allow the tail to rise slowly.

and

9. Take-off is at IAS = 170-180 km/h and performed on three points throughout take-off roll.

Isn't it contradictory? Should I lift the tail at e.g. 120 km/h or lift from three point? Which one is it? :)

(open beta)

[jweisner]

According to this interview

, the tail should raise itself, and then you rotate and take off from 2 wheels. I've never experienced this behaviour in DCS.

 

Also, Erich Brunotte says the rudder was sufficient to keep the D-9 tracking down the runway (unlike the 109 which often needed brakes), but this doesn't work for me in DCS either.

 

For me, the 190 wanders all over the shop and I just get lucky sometimes and get into the air. The DCS helicopters have been far easier to learn for me than taking off in the 190 and 109.

[Bucic]

According to this interview

, the tail should raise itself, and then you rotate and take off from 2 wheels. I've never experienced this behaviour in DCS.

 

Also, Erich Brunotte says the rudder was sufficient to keep the D-9 tracking down the runway (unlike the 109 which often needed brakes), but this doesn't work for me in DCS either.

 

For me, the 190 wanders all over the shop and I just get lucky sometimes and get into the air. The DCS helicopters have been far easier to learn for me than taking off in the 190 and 109.

Ah, thanks.

 

Re your problem. I've just started with the 190 and I had no problems with iteven using twist rudder of my stick. Most likely you fail to: 1) lock the tail wheel at a straight position 2) press it down untill <some km/h>.

[greco.bernardi]

carefully!

[zaelu]

The manual says:

 

...

 

Isn't it contradictory? Should I lift the tail at e.g. 120 km/h or lift from three point? Which one is it? :)

(open beta)

 

It's about neutralizing the back pressure without going forward with the stick so you raise the tail up. Just like with P51.

[Bucic]

OK, I think I got it after a dozen of attempts. My main mistakes are:

- still keeping back pressure on the stick after reaching 120 km/h (I started using trim down to compensate for now)

- no application of heavy right rudder after liftoff

- belated liftoff

 

This is my first proper warbird. Damn, this thing takes off within 5 seconds! :shocking: Unfortunatelly I'm using Thrustmaster T.16000M with rudder twist. The rudder has only 256 steps of resolution which shows. Anyway, here's a track with takeoff, quick landing dead ahead and another, IMO slightly better takeoff. 100 FPS in DCS 1.5 helps a lot :)

 

Curvature on all axis: 15

 

Same flight:

 

dora_to_practice3ed1.trk

Edited November 15, 2015 by Bucic

[iFoxRomeo]

According to this interview

, the tail should raise itself, and then you rotate and take off from 2 wheels. I've never experienced this behaviour in DCS...

Let the stick go back slowly to its center position when you pass 120km/h, then you will have this behavior.

 

...Also, Erich Brunotte says the rudder was sufficient to keep the D-9 tracking down the runway (unlike the 109 which often needed brakes), but this doesn't work for me in DCS either.

There is no need for the brakes on take off. But you have to be quick with the corrections. Use the turn indicator. Keep it centered....

 

Fox

[jweisner]

Let the stick go back slowly to its center position when you pass 120km/h, then you will have this behavior.

 

 

There is no need for the brakes on take off. But you have to be quick with the corrections. Use the turn indicator. Keep it centered....

 

Fox

 

So, right after posting that, I went and tried it again. It worked, because of course it did. :doh:

 

I think I was trying to force the nose down before. So, thanks! I managed to take off 8/10 times in single player.

Edited November 16, 2015 by jweisner

[iFoxRomeo]

So, right after posting that, I went and tried it again. It worked, because of course it did. :doh:

 

I think I was trying to force the nose down before. So, thanks! I managed to take off 8/10 times in single player.

 

:thumbup::thumbup:

 

Fox

[ekg]

After crashing this thing over and over for about 2 hours straight I finally got it. What works for me is to lock the tail wheel. Get RPM somewhere around 2700-3000 and use right rudder (and only right rudder) gently and quickly to keep the yaw slip indicator "centered" (it's really a combination of keeping the plane straight on the runway and keeping the slip to a minimum. the plane slips left by default). As soon as the plane lifts off it sort of starts to feel like its drifting to the right (from my right rudder input) and banking to the left at that point i gently and gradually release the stick to center and remove right rudder completely. I start to lift off around 150-160kph. I don't let the stick center until i reach about 200kph. I hope this helps someone. The rudder inputs are very gentle.

Edited November 23, 2015 by ekg

[ekg]

I decided to practice again and I was crashing! I only managed to get it right when I remembered how to let go of the stick.

 

Basically what I've found to be most consistent is:

1. Lock Tail Wheel by pulling stick back

2. Rev engine up to 2700-3000 RPM

3. Accelerate Use Right Rudder to keep turn and slip indicator centered

4. At 150kph start to center stick. This is the most delicate and crucial of all the steps. Screw this up and you trash the plane.

5. At about 180kph stick is almost centered and you should be in the air

[Bucic]

I decided to practice again and I was crashing! I only managed to get it right when I remembered how to let go of the stick.

 

Basically what I've found to be most consistent is:

1. Lock Tail Wheel by pulling stick back

2. Rev engine up to 2700-3000 RPM

3. Accelerate Use Right Rudder to keep turn and slip indicator centered

4. At 150kph start to center stick. This is the most delicate and crucial of all the steps. Screw this up and you trash the plane.

5. At about 180kph stick is almost centered and you should be in the air

Almost identical to "my" procedure. The manual should state the airspeed for neutralizing the stick!

 

BTW, as mentions earlier, disabling head bobbing helps a ton. What I recommend is editing the mission to include puffy clouds. Makes for a great visual reference.

 

And BTW, after you launch DCS 1.5 hit LAlt+ENTER to force full screen. On my system it provided at least twice as smooth animation! Now I can see a 10 RPM variation just by looking at the propeller cone :D

[BFBunny]

After many months not flying the dora I finally twigged about pulling back on the stick to lock the tail wheel.

 

After that and pushing the stick forward at some speed the plane floats off the runway. Perfect every time even on the grass.

[beagleRampant]

I purchased this late last year but gave up after a series of frustrating cuss-filled sessions. It seemed that no two takeoffs were the same. After reading everyone's advice, eventually I managed to struggle off the ground a few times, but there seemed no logic to how I was doing it.

 

Yesterday I came back to it, determined to tame the beast. In one day I have gone from:

 

"EFFING USELESS PIECE OF S***, I HATE YOU. DIE DIE DIE!"

 

to:

 

"I CAN DO IT! I CAN DO IT!" pretty much every time (okay, not always pretty).

 

For me the "click" moment was actually using the right instrument. In this case the turn indicator. You obviously want to keep it centered with rudder, but I realized it starts to move (and thus needs correction) before the plane visually appears to turn. If I waited until I saw the plane start to veer, then it was too late and I was eating grass.

 

Once airborne it's a joy to fly, smoother than the P-51.

 

Landing is another matter though...

[Winger]

Thats how i do it:

 

1. Lift flaps (the thing doesnt need flaps to takeoff)

2. Stick back to lock tailwheel

3. Revs to 3k

4. Keep slipindicator in the middle

5. 150 km/h release stick backpressure (dont push forward)

6. Keep slipindicator int he middle

7. The plane will start to ascend on its own

8. As soon as youre airborn pull in the gear

[mkiii]

It helped me when I experimented with exactly how far back the stick needs to be pulled in order to lock the tailwheel.

 

It might help if your stick has strong springs such as a Warthog, to just pull back a tiny bit past half way, in my setup, this means the label in the bomb panel is just visible over the top of the stick. Doing this means you can centre it just a bit more easily. Your centre may vary from this position, since I have about 20% curve on Pitch and Roll axes. (I noted that the real thing has progressive control throws according to the manual).

 

The tip to use ONLY Right rudder to correct was a lightbulb moment too. That helped a lot.

 

Now all I need to do is land the thing without doing a ground loop at best... :)

[golani79]

Now all I need to do is land the thing without doing a ground loop at best... :)

 

Pull the stick back to lock the tail wheel as soon as you are on the ground - touchdown at around 190km/h

[Weegie]

I posted a vid before on landing, not sure if it helps or not. Apart from a horrific amount of practice my tips are

 

Micro flare in series of small steps, cross threshold at approx 220, engine to idle

 

Don't let the wheels come into contact with Terra Firma above 190 (she will pogo big time)

 

When close the the ground and somewhere between 190-170 stick back gently no more that 2/3rds

 

As soon as its on the deck check the Turn indicator it gives you early warning on which way the bird is going to violently veer, apply opposite rudder to counter

 

Is she rolls onto one wing keep the stick back, and move it left or right, to counter the roll

 

Don't touch the brakes until well below 100kph (I do not use them at all usually)

 

I usually get it down without damage, sometimes I bend a strut.

 

Even with all the practice its still an exciting event

Edited June 23, 2016 by Weegie
spelling

[5tuka]

It's also helpfull to trim the plane out during final approach. Usually I need to trim full tailheavy once landing flaps are deployed to stay on my flight path without great stick effort.

 

Flaring also becomes a lot easier with a well trimmed aircraft.

 

As for the final approach you should keep an eye on your sink rate. Don't go beyond 5 m/s close to the ground or she will sag threw when flaring.

 

It is also handy to sideslip if you're coming in too high. Keep in mind you should exit the slip at safe altitude since it takes a few seconds to recover the aircrafts sink rate.

[Tomsk]

So I thought I'd have a go at learning the Dora. In terms of the take-off I'd say it's quite a bit more difficult than the Mustang which I am very familiar with. The take-off in the Dora seems to be much more 'dynamic' and you have to keep on top of it a lot more.

 

I also found I don't like the suggestions in the manual much. In particular I find that I prefer the plane to have full nose down trim (i.e. about 1.5 degrees). The manual suggests zero elevator trim, but I find the plane wants to take off too early and that leads to all sorts of trouble. You can learn to counter it with the stick (of course) but I just find 1.5 degrees nose down is much smoother and it naturally (for me) leads to a take off at 200 kph.

 

A lot of people suggest centering the stick at about 170 kph (e.g. Chuck's guide, which is excellent), but personally I'm finding that to be much too late. Again the plane wants to take off too early without enough speed. I find starting to center (gently) at about 140 kph gives better results. Of course I'm using a FF stick, so it just naturally starts wanting to center itself at that kind of speed.

 

So here's my suggested procedure, it works well for me. Incidentally I'm using neither auto-rudder nor take-off assistance.

 

1. Check flaps are set for take off.
   
2. Elevator trim at full nose down (about 1.5 degrees)
   
3. Make sure tailwheel is locked by holding the stick full aft IMPORTANT!
   
4. Power to maximum, gently but firmly
   
5. Watch the horizon, or even better (if you have them) watch the clouds out the front dash.
   
6. Correct any deviation from straight with gentle stabs of the rudder
   
7. Glance down at your airspeed repeatedly, when you hit 140 kph start gently moving the stick to neutral
   
8. Now you must watch that horizon like a hawk! Keep on top of any wobbling with stabs of the rudder. You may also need to use tiny bits of right aileron to keep it level.
   
9. Rotate at about 200 kph, you'll barely need to pull the stick back at all to get off the ground
   
10. Gear up, flaps up, trim to zero, engine to 3000 RPM for climb out.
    

Edited June 25, 2016 by Tomsk

[mkiii]

So you don't hold right rudder during T/O? Interesting.

[Tomsk]

Well no I do, but that's not what I focus on. I focus on keeping the plane straight, whatever rudder inputs that requires :-) I wouldn't advise "hold right rudder" though, because I found there's little "holding" it, it needs a lot of active correction in the Dora.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Tomsk

[Ala13_ManOWar]

So you don't hold right rudder during T/O? Interesting.

Well, you shouldn't "hold" rudder indeed but tap it when needed, if you hold it you'll make a nice trek in the country to the side you hold.

 

S!