Chivas Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 I think the HOTAS concept needs to be expanded (button wise) to see us through the early years of VR headsets. The current HOTAS systems like X55 etc are more than capable for WW2 sims, specially the mode button that can more than triple the amount of buttons, but not so sure about modern aircraft sims. VAC systems can fill in many of the blanks.
Rogue Trooper Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Yes they are fine for WWII and then some, but no good for complex airframes where quick data access, weapon control, sensor modes and defensive mechanisms are required for modern aircraft. HP G2 Reverb (Needs upgrading), Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. set to OpenXR, but Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), DLSS setting is quality at 1.0. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC... Everything needs upgrading in this system!. Vaicom user and what a superb freebie it is! Virpil Mongoose T50M3 base & Mongoose CM2 Grip (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS collective with counterbalance kit (woof woof). Virpil Apache Grip (OMG). MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound... goodbye VRS.
luckyhendrix Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Yes they are fine for WWII and then some, but no good for complex airframes where quick data access, weapon control, sensor modes and defensive mechanisms are required for modern aircraft. No i dont think you understand the concept of hotas. "Hands on Throttle and stick" which mean that with a properly configured hotas setup you should never have to reach for any controls during a combat phase. It is the case with the a-10. And with a bit of head scratching you can reproduce that even with aircrafts that are not originally equipped with HOTAS, it did it for the mig21 for instance. Outside of combat phase you will need to let go of the Throttle to push buttons, but then there is more time as it is a less tense situation.
Rogue Trooper Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) Yeah perhaps.... as mentioned in the previous post, the mode button would become more relevant with VR than the way I currently use it and is probably the answer. At the moment I use the mode switch as an aircraft choice via the target software. The I/O and U/M/D gives me 6 aircraft on one Target script. Target is the only way I go at the mo as the alternatives are just not worth the bother. So yes with VR this is do-able for you but not for my requirements but is a choice I could adapt to if need be.... With the A10 sensor of interest and floating button assignment it is easier. With the Russian chopper button mash and other various aircraft I fly in depth it is more difficult. Edited September 19, 2015 by Rogue Trooper HP G2 Reverb (Needs upgrading), Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. set to OpenXR, but Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), DLSS setting is quality at 1.0. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC... Everything needs upgrading in this system!. Vaicom user and what a superb freebie it is! Virpil Mongoose T50M3 base & Mongoose CM2 Grip (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS collective with counterbalance kit (woof woof). Virpil Apache Grip (OMG). MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound... goodbye VRS.
S3NTRY11 Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Yes they are fine for WWII and then some, but no good for complex airframes where quick data access, weapon control, sensor modes and defensive mechanisms are required for modern aircraft. Even more so, things like the CDU and upfront panels with more complex or numerous inputs are difficult to map and use reliably, with a HOTAS. The most obvious solution in my mind (in lieu of accurate physical 1:1 pit model), would be tracked gloves with built-in haptics. It removes so many issues, and would be so intuitive. Slip the surly bonds of Earth [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Core i7 2600k@4.5||Z77 Extreme 6||16GB RAM WIN 10||HTC Vive ||G940||1080Ti
S3NTRY11 Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 A heads up, so to speak :) The HTC Vive truck is in Boston this weekend, should anyone want to demo it. (1350 Boylston Street) https://twitter.com/hashtag/HTCViveLive?src=hash That's just mean :cry: Slip the surly bonds of Earth [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Core i7 2600k@4.5||Z77 Extreme 6||16GB RAM WIN 10||HTC Vive ||G940||1080Ti
hansangb Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 THANK You! I'm right across the river this Sunday. I'll have to try and see what I can do about checking it out. Hsb hsb HW Spec in Spoiler --- i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1
Chivas Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Elite Dangerous has announced support for the HTC Vive, and hope to have that support ready for the HTC Vive release this year. If they are able to complete implementation, and the Vive is actually available to the general public this year, I will definitely put more consideration into buying the Vive. The fact that ED are successfully implementing VIVE support, it bodes well for DCS's potential Vive implementation, but there are still far to many unknowns on the difference between the Rift and Vive to make a wise decision.
Python Posted September 21, 2015 Author Posted September 21, 2015 I'm really liking the look of the vive. But ultimately I'll buy the headset with the best screen and overall performance. I'm certainly not rushing in to a purchase. I've waited this long anyway.. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
S3NTRY11 Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Elite Dangerous has announced support for the HTC Vive, and hope to have that support ready for the HTC Vive release this year. If they are able to complete implementation, and the Vive is actually available to the general public this year, I will definitely put more consideration into buying the Vive. The fact that ED are successfully implementing VIVE support, it bodes well for DCS's potential Vive implementation, but there are still far to many unknowns on the difference between the Rift and Vive to make a wise decision. I might actually start playing again! Thanks for the heads-up! Slip the surly bonds of Earth [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Core i7 2600k@4.5||Z77 Extreme 6||16GB RAM WIN 10||HTC Vive ||G940||1080Ti
Rogue Trooper Posted September 22, 2015 Posted September 22, 2015 Even more so, things like the CDU and upfront panels with more complex or numerous inputs are difficult to map and use reliably, with a HOTAS. The most obvious solution in my mind (in lieu of accurate physical 1:1 pit model), would be tracked gloves with built-in haptics. It removes so many issues, and would be so intuitive. Tracked gloves would be the best solution with an in VR pit pointer for each finger. I am not even sure about a real and perfectly built 1:1 scale pit as this would require perfect alignment with the VR pit and spot on head calibration. This may prove problematic for the MFDs let alone the close button proximity of the navigation control panels (A10, KA-50) HP G2 Reverb (Needs upgrading), Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate. set to OpenXR, but Open XR tool kit disabled. DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), DLSS setting is quality at 1.0. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC... Everything needs upgrading in this system!. Vaicom user and what a superb freebie it is! Virpil Mongoose T50M3 base & Mongoose CM2 Grip (not set for dead stick), Virpil TCS collective with counterbalance kit (woof woof). Virpil Apache Grip (OMG). MFG pedals with damper upgrade. Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound... goodbye VRS.
S3NTRY11 Posted September 22, 2015 Posted September 22, 2015 Tracked gloves would be the best solution with an in VR pit pointer for each finger. I am not even sure about a real and perfectly built 1:1 scale pit as this would require perfect alignment with the VR pit and spot on head calibration. This may prove problematic for the MFDs let alone the close button proximity of the navigation control panels (A10, KA-50) All I can say is, you nailed it. Slip the surly bonds of Earth [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Core i7 2600k@4.5||Z77 Extreme 6||16GB RAM WIN 10||HTC Vive ||G940||1080Ti
Chivas Posted September 22, 2015 Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) All I can say is after time and training your self you can operate mfds no problem while under vr in a 1/1 ish scale pit to the vr one. I think some are over complicating this and don't realize that you can train your self to operate with anything in regards to vr setups. I think most who bash it or say oh that's just not possible don't have the time under their belt and or the hand eye and train ability to begin with. Vr in the sim world will not be for everybody. We see that in the military, works for some and others fall on their face so to speak. I highly recommend a somewhat 1/1 pit and practice and muscle memory, it will become more real than antithetical experience out their. I agree, it becomes quite easy to find the correct switch etc with very little practice. I don't know about jet pilots but WW2 pilots were trained to find their aircraft systems blindfolded. BUT I'm a little bias as I have little interested in jet systems/aircraft and more interested in the far less complicated WW2 aircraft pits currently in DCS development. Edited September 22, 2015 by Chivas
S3NTRY11 Posted September 22, 2015 Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) All I can say is after time and training your self you can operate mfds no problem while under vr in a 1/1 ish scale pit to the vr one. I think some are over complicating this and don't realize that you can train your self to operate with anything in regards to vr setups. I think most who bash it or say oh that's just not possible don't have the time under their belt and or the hand eye and train ability to begin with. Vr in the sim world will not be for everybody. We see that in the military, works for some and others fall on their face so to speak. I highly recommend a somewhat 1/1 pit and practice and muscle memory, it will become more real than antithetical experience out their. Although a 1:1 pit would be great, I think, in spite of the fact you'd get used to it and muscle memory would kick in, haptic gloves would make ANY cockpit 1:1. Much more versatile. And, no issues with physical pits being slightly out of calibration. Not to mention the extreme difficulty in achieving a true physical 1:1. Edited September 22, 2015 by S3NTRY11 Slip the surly bonds of Earth [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Core i7 2600k@4.5||Z77 Extreme 6||16GB RAM WIN 10||HTC Vive ||G940||1080Ti
Mode1961 Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Vive Have the devs had a chance to test out the Vive yet. I know you guys got your dev kit some time ago.
AtaliaA1 Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Completely agree, almost everyone dose this anyway in their everyday life to some extent. Typing is one example, HOTAS throttle and stick, another is your car radio, changing channels, volume etc, while never looking at it, you just know where it's at, your car window switches another. Your bedroom light switch in the middle of the night after too much too drink...OK, bad example... anyway you should get the drift.. By nature, we humans are actually fairly adaptive... Good points. You left out the biggest one, our tendency to close our eyes if the room goes dark and navigate said room with them closed without bumping into the walls. Instinctive human trait. This was a Boutique Builder iBuypower rig. Until I got the tinker bug again i7 920 @3.6Mhz 12Gig Corsair XMS3 ram 1600 Nvidia 760 SLi w/4Gig DDR5 Ram Intel 310 SSD HDD 160 Gb + Western Digital 4Terabyte HDD Creative SB X-Fi HD Audio Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Speaker System Dual Acer 32"Monitors. PSU 1200 w Thermaltake Win10 64Bit.
NeilWillis Posted September 26, 2015 Posted September 26, 2015 Check out the Playstation VR system too. That looked good at EGX, but was set up in a blacked out room. No technical info was divulged, or release date and price range is also still to be announced. It looks a real contender, especially as it is being promoted by Nvidia.
S3NTRY11 Posted September 26, 2015 Posted September 26, 2015 Check out the Playstation VR system too. That looked good at EGX, but was set up in a blacked out room. No technical info was divulged, or release date and price range is also still to be announced. It looks a real contender, especially as it is being promoted by Nvidia. You'd have to argue that it's only really a contender if it's PC compatible, surely? Which is as likely as me getting a Vive next week. Slip the surly bonds of Earth [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Core i7 2600k@4.5||Z77 Extreme 6||16GB RAM WIN 10||HTC Vive ||G940||1080Ti
cichlidfan Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 While we're still waiting... Fixed. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
JLX Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I hope DCS will support it! All indications I've read so far seem to suggest the Vive is a better overall experience than the Rift. I am definitely going to pick up a Vive and am only only optionally planning on the Rift. Reports of better motion tracking, reduced eye strain and negligible motion sickness are convincing! I'd really love an official word from ED about support plans. We are all going to need to make VR purchase decisions before too long and of course DCS is at the top of my most desired VR games! ED, can we please get some Vive support intentions... please? Thanks! 3570K w/ 16GB, 1070 w/ 8GB @ 1440p, VKB Gunfighter/MCG-Pro & T-Rudder Mk.IV, CH ProThrottle, TrackIR 5, HTC Vive, UniversRadio, VoiceAttack, TacView Pro, DCS Menu Nav F/A-18C, F-5E, F-86F, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Ka-50, SA342, P-51D, Spitfire Mk.IX, Bf109, Fw190, FC3, CA, Persian Gulf, NTTR, Normandy, WW2 Assets
Nirvi Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I hope DCS will support it! All indications I've read so far seem to suggest the Vive is a better overall experience than the Rift. I am definitely going to pick up a Vive and am only only optionally planning on the Rift. Reports of better motion tracking, reduced eye strain and negligible motion sickness are convincing! I'd really love an official word from ED about support plans. We are all going to need to make VR purchase decisions before too long and of course DCS is at the top of my most desired VR games! ED, can we please get some Vive support intentions... please? Thanks! Your best bet is to keep a look on this thread and the official news section. If there are any news, it will be posted there. At the moment, this is all we know: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2417071&postcount=89 Merging Threads Serious uglies Discord 4YA - Project Overlord WW2 Server My DCS Videos
Chivas Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) I hope DCS will support it! All indications I've read so far seem to suggest the Vive is a better overall experience than the Rift. I am definitely going to pick up a Vive and am only only optionally planning on the Rift. Reports of better motion tracking, reduced eye strain and negligible motion sickness are convincing! I'd really love an official word from ED about support plans. We are all going to need to make VR purchase decisions before too long and of course DCS is at the top of my most desired VR games! ED, can we please get some Vive support intentions... please? Thanks! Early reports from DCS suggest that Vive support is doable, but no word if they have the time to do it. We have to very careful when a reviewer suggests that one unit is better than the other. Not one review compares the consumer versions of these headsets. There are no consumer versions out yet to compare. All the reviews are just comparing prototypes, some even comparing one companies latest prototype to another companies early prototype. There is a lot of misinformation out there, so I would take most reviews with a grain of salt. We should have much better info in late Oct/Nov if in-fact Vive is still going to release some consumer units this year. You can bet that Oculus will release their final specs the moment Vive does. Then we can make a far more informed decision on which hardware would best suit our needs. Both companies have kept their final specs/content/price very close to their chest. Oculus is just now reviewing the consumer versions coming off their assembly lines to see if any tweaks have to be done before full scale production starts. No word yet from HTC Vive, but they must have consumer version coming off their assembly lines aswell if they hope to release some units this year. I think Vive will have a major announcement around Oct 20th. Good times ahead. Both companies use different tracking methods, and one might be slightly more precise than the other, but most users haven't noticed any difference in latencies. Oculus has suggested they tried all solution, and went with the camera option because it was easier to track full body movement, and facial expressions. Personally I will be using VR primarily in flight sim situations, where tracking has few if any occlusion situations. It also should be much cheaper than the Vive as I will only need to buy the Rift version with one camera and no inputs. That said I will probably buy the Vive and all versions of the Rift. I have the DK2, but its not a very good experience because its impossible to setup my particular IPD, and it effects all aspects of the overall headset. Consequently any review I would give would be skewed. Thankfully both companies will have physical IPD adjustments on their consumer version Edited October 14, 2015 by Chivas
JLX Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Thanks to all for the info (and links to it). I guess we'll just have to be patient but I do hope we get a bit more concrete news before we early adopters need to make a decision and plunk down some cash for a HMD. I'd be surprised if they weren't able (or don't want) to support both the Vive and Rift. Likely it's more a matter of "when" than "if". Regardless, I hope that each platform will get developer attention based on their merits rather than exclusivity/favoritism tied to monetary incentives. A terrible practice which is already far to prevalent IMHO. Bring on the VR! 3570K w/ 16GB, 1070 w/ 8GB @ 1440p, VKB Gunfighter/MCG-Pro & T-Rudder Mk.IV, CH ProThrottle, TrackIR 5, HTC Vive, UniversRadio, VoiceAttack, TacView Pro, DCS Menu Nav F/A-18C, F-5E, F-86F, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Ka-50, SA342, P-51D, Spitfire Mk.IX, Bf109, Fw190, FC3, CA, Persian Gulf, NTTR, Normandy, WW2 Assets
VincentLaw Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 imagine standing in a DCS fully detailed control center of a U-BoatI wouldn't be surprised if ED has playable ship modules somewhere on the to do list, and I would definitely want the ability to walk around the bridge of my ship. I don't have enough floor space to do that with a Vive in anything larger than a response boat, but it would still be cool. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
vicx Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 I could easily think of a hundred differing ways, but, one of my first thoughts was Combined Arms ... Imagine a Tactical Operation Center (TOC) that is 5 x 5 meters, with a 3 x 3 meter map table in the middle of it. A great DCS focused report. :thumbup: I agree that VR gives CA so much more potential. This was even my thought when using the Rift. I have always had my Rift Camera on a tripod instead of sitting on my monitor so I have always been trying to make work in roomscale even though ... it's not very suited to that. I am working on some DCS mods for CA that should make for good VR experiences. One thing holding me back at the moment is working out how to make the CA HUD system do what I want it to do. I haven't gotten a Kneeboard or Cargo Cam type surface working yet and those are things that need to work to make the VR experience happen with CA. If anyone has gotten these things to work .. PM me.
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