Next aircraft speculation

[Brisse]

But the second is a dog fighter - so maybe a F-8?

 

And how do you explain the catfighter? :huh:

[Einherjer]

As said above : Tomcat ;)

[Brisse]

As said above : Tomcat ;)

 

Oh yes, of course. How stupid of me :lol:

[Coxy_99]

Sounds to me with new propulsion and so on a UFO :thumbup:

[bart]

Sounds to me with new propulsion and so on a UFO :thumbup:

 

Careful what you wish for!. The NTTR map is coming soon with Groom Lake and Area 51 on there so who knows what Leatherneck has hidden in Hangar 18 :smilewink:

[Arden]

Must be the new propulsion system of the hovercat

[TomCatMucDe]

It's gonna be the Viggen. You may argue that it doesn't have enough notoriety and export history, but in the DCS frame it's gonna be an EXCELLENT opponent to the Mirage 2000. Something that the MiG21 doesn't have unfortunately

[Coxy_99]

Careful what you wish for!. The NTTR map is coming soon with Groom Lake and Area 51 on there so who knows what Leatherneck has hidden in Hangar 18 :smilewink:

 

Hahaha true CA troop units as aliens running around with laser guns jumping out of ufo's (Leathernecks new module) And taking area 51 :lol:

[dartuil]

It's gonna be the Viggen. You may argue that it doesn't have enough notoriety and export history, but in the DCS frame it's gonna be an EXCELLENT opponent to the Mirage 2000. Something that the MiG21 doesn't have unfortunately

 

 

Yep M2000c need opponent viggen would be good and instant buy.

If its not viggen im out.

[Random]

Tbh viggen ticks all the boxes but its fun to come up with other theories....

[dartuil]

If its viggen a good one that can wear 4 AAM please. Dont care about bombs.

Some skyflash maybe?

Edited November 26, 2015 by dartuil

[Krieg]

The AJ (which seems likelier considering ground radar) would be more of a Mig-21 opponent than a opponent to the Mirage. We might then see two or four sidewinders, no Skyflash.

[dartuil]

Any good source better then wikipedia about viggen?

[Brisse]

Any good source better then wikipedia about viggen?

 

Most good sources are in Swedish I'm afraid.

[dartuil]

You can give me it ill try read number. :)

[Brisse]

How about this one? There's a video on the bottom if you get tired of the language barrier.

http://www.f10kamratforening.se/Kamrat/Word/?page_id=407

 

How about this one? More details if you click the links to each variant:

http://www.aef.se/Flygvapnet/Notiser/FPL37_Viggen.htm

 

Old video from the Air Force. Not so much about the aircraft itself but more on the use of public roads as air bases. Plenty of old Viggen fotage.

 

[ame]https://youtu.be/PoQtnugT6A4[/ame]

 

 

 

Old video from a Swedish TV show. This episode talks about the history of the Viggen, especially the development and some political aspects of the project.

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

 

 

Huge document that has some stuff regarding ground control and communications.

 

[ame]http://www.fht.nu/Dokument/Flygvapnet/flyg_publ_dok_svenska_flygvapnets_styrdatasystem.pdf[/ame]

 

 

 

Some stuff on the avionics of Viggen and Gripen

 

[ame]http://www.saabveteran.se/lunch/141119_3genB.pdf[/ame]

 

 

 

Pilot - system interaction

 

[ame]https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:13266/FULLTEXT01.pdf[/ame]

 

 

 

Radar of the Ja-37

 

[ame]http://ericssonhistory.com/Global/Ericsson%20review/Ericsson%20Review.%201983.%20V.60/Ericsson_Review_Vol_60_1983_2.pdf[/ame]

Edited November 27, 2015 by Brisse

[dartuil]

Complete things thanks.

[OziRekt]

Hopefully we get the AJS-37 with the upgraded avionics over the AJ. it can carry the better RB 15 anti ship missile, and the BK90 glide cluster bomb, as well as AIM-9Ls instead of AIM-9Js. It should be just as declassed as the AJ so I don't see why they wouldn't.

Edited November 27, 2015 by OziRekt

[BravoYankee4]

Thanks for the documents Brisse.

 

If we get a Viggen (or the Draken) it would be really nice to have the datalink simulated. It was never proven in an open conflict, but it gave the Swedish air force a huge advantage during the whole cold war period. This system was unique in many ways and was way ahead of other countries.

According to some sources the radar vendor (Marconi) at some point said this proposed solution was 10 years ahead of everyone else.

It gained a lot of interest from the NATO countries (and unfortunately a lot of details was probably revealed to USSR from some spies also).

 

So in the early 60’ies the Swedish air force had a digital data link to the aircrafts providing automatic data with unique target data for all aircrafts. The ground radar continuously measured the position of both the own and the enemy aircraft and sent new data with a high update frequency.

The foundations of this systems was used for almost 40 years. With the JA37 platform it was also possible to have a link from aircraft to aircraft.

[Random]

Thanks for the documents Brisse.

 

If we get a Viggen (or the Draken) it would be really nice to have the datalink simulated. It was never proven in an open conflict, but it gave the Swedish air force a huge advantage during the whole cold war period. This system was unique in many ways and was way ahead of other countries.

According to some sources the radar vendor (Marconi) at some point said this proposed solution was 10 years ahead of everyone else.

It gained a lot of interest from the NATO countries (and unfortunately a lot of details was probably revealed to USSR from some spies also).

 

Gotta admit the Draken is the Saab I lust after...

 

I wonder how the Swedish Datalink compared to the one developed but never used in the UK for the Lightning which was pretty basic. You say it was digital?

 

The lightning system was analogue, Incredible to think that these systems actually existed back in the 60's using pre solid state electronics. Most people think it only became possible with solid state and microprocessors in the 80s

[Brisse]

I wonder how the Swedish Datalink compared to the one developed but never used in the UK for the Lightning which was pretty basic. You say it was digital?

 

Viggen avionics were digital and used solid state components. That even applies to the initial version developed back in the 60's, but there were major changes during it's lifespan, such as when they developed the Ja-37.

 

I added another document in my previous post if anyone's interested. It's on the radar of the Ja-37.

[BravoYankee4]

Yes, it is amazing what they achieved. So having all data sent and presented almost in real time in the aircraft is of course and advantage compared to a system with voice based GCI interceptions.

 

 

 

The data message was 103 bits long and was sent at 3000 bits per second – so you could get 29 messages/updates per second to the aircraft indicators. Actually only 68 bits was used for the message, the other bits was for validation and some in reserve.

For synchronization every message was initiated by twelve “1” in a row and every tenth bit was always a “0”.

There was also some parity bits after every part of information (heading, altitude etc) in order to detect bit errors in the data transmission.

 

The messages started with an address/callsign that was one letter (A-Z) and two digits (0-9). So in theory the system could handle 2600 unique aircrafts (5+4+4=13 bits).

 

Next part of the message was about the current phase, that was either Phase I (homing) or Phase II (target acquiring).

When in Phase II the Distance indicator (AVST) changed the resolution.

 

Target altitude was sent in a three digit decimal format, with the resolution of 200 meters (2+4+3= 9 bits). The maximum height data indication (HÖJD) for J35 was 20.000 meters and for JA37 it was 30.000 meters.

 

The following part consisted of some pre-defined text messages to the pilot from the ground crew (5 bits).

Examples are “FEL” = error, “HÖJDÄNDRING”= altitude change, “NYTT MÅL”= new target, “BRYT” = break, “LANDA = land (RTB) and so on.

 

Next there was the course for the target and this was sent binary coded. In theory the resolution could be 0,703125 degrees (9 bits).

 

Followed by the bearing to the target with same characteristics as above (9 bits).

 

The distance to the target was also binary (9 bits) with the resolution of 1km in the range 40km to 400km (Phase I).

In Phase II mode the distance indicator was showing 100m resolution up to 40km.

 

The altitude angle (up or down) to the target was not implemented from start, but according to the resource it was sent as 6 bits.

 

There was also an altitude difference to the target in meters sent with 6 bits.

 

Finally there was 4 bits in reserve in this protocol. Not sure if they where ever used.

There was two pre-defined test messages that could be used to verify the functionality (1: course 179,2 degrees, and 2: course 180 degrees). So when the test button was pressed the course indicator should show that course.

 

Since the JA37 plattform had a more sophisticated computer and had better avionics it was not dependent of getting it’s own position from the ground radar. So the only information needed here was the vectors to the target and then the internal computer calculated with higher accuracy.

 

In the J35 there was a dedicated indicator for distance and altitude. The other indication was presented on the radar scope (similar to ILS indicators).

 

When going from the J35 Draken platform to the JA37 Viggen there was only smaller updates of this system so it was operative for almost 40 years (1960’s to 2000’s).

 

 

Comment: The export models of the Draken didn't have this functionality. In this video (of a Draken in Finland) you can see there are some indicators missing : [ame]

[/ame]

Edited November 27, 2015 by BravoYankee4
Added comment.

[Kilrah]

 

"Lots of technical information"

 

 

Haha, jeez, Did you work on the aircraft back in the day or what? :megalol:

[BravoYankee4]

Haha, jeez, Did you work on the aircraft back in the day or what? :megalol:

Well, he asked for more details :)

And fun to provide some facts and not just wishful thinking and speculation to this thread for a change :music_whistling:

 

No, some of the details I knew about, but most was just translated from the documents from Brisse.

[Brisse]

Leatherneck should consider hiring you BravoYankee4 :)