DCS: F-5E!

[Hummingbird]

You are correct. The F-5E's only real strength is its maneuverability. When the F-14 drops I can only imagine the amount of people that are going to set the wings to min-sweep and try to yank and bank with F-5s. Now a truly good F-14 pilot won't let you get that close, or they'll boom and zoom all day long. We'll have to wait and see for what LNS delivers, but I am just going to love the number of F-5s that are going to try to follow F-14s in the vertical, only to run out of steam and get blasted on their way back down. :D:joystick:

 

Mate, try to turn with the cat in an F-5 and you're dead... just saying :)

[BlackhatEspeed]

Only if the F5 pilot makes BFM/ACM errors. Otherwise the Turkey is toast in a knife fight. Say the words with me, my brother: the F14 is an interceptor.

 

The turkey is toast.

[Hummingbird]

Listen carefully to what the Top Gun instructor says at 19:23 min:

[Hummingbird]

The turkey is toast.

 

You're going to be sweating confused the first time you try turning with one! :lol::lol:

 

But just to prepare you:

 

Max STR

F-14 = 16.2 deg/sec

F-5 = 13 deg/sec

 

Max ITR @ 6.5 G

F-14 = 22 deg/sec

F-5 = 19.7 deg/sec

 

So yeah, you will indeed end up making toasts for the F-14 pilots in the canteen :megalol:

Edited July 23, 2016 by Hummingbird

[bernp]

Listen carefully to what the Top Gun instructor says at 19:23 min:

Informative video. Thanks for posting it.

The F14 will be an exciting addition to dcs. Can't wait to pre-order.

 

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

[LuSi_6]

[Hummingbird]

Informative video. Thanks for posting it.

The F14 will be an exciting addition to dcs. Can't wait to pre-order.

 

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

 

You're welcome :)

 

Here's a thread I started a while back you might want to check out, lots of informative videos on the Tomcat in there: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=141455

[mattebubben]

One area where the F-5 should be superior to the F-14 though is roll rate.

 

And in a maneuvering fight that quick roll rate could give it a decent edge since it would alot for much faster reversals etc.

 

So while the F-14 might have the edge in turning the F-5E would still have a decent change to outmaneuver a F-14 if it had a good pilot at the controls.

[Hummingbird]

One area where the F-5 should be superior to the F-14 though is roll rate.

 

And in a maneuvering fight that quick roll rate could give it a decent edge since it would alot for much faster reversals etc.

 

So while the F-14 might have the edge in turning the F-5E would still have a decent change to outmaneuver a F-14 if it had a good pilot at the controls.

 

The F-5's roll rate is better yes, no doubt. However wether it will be better by enough to allow it to throw off a good F-14 pilot is the question, and even if it can then all the F-14 pilot has to do is pitch up, reverse and come back for a another go.

 

In other words the F-5 is going to be on the defensive from start to finish and has to rely on mistakes made by the F-14 pilot in order to gain a chance. It's pretty much a repeat of the MiG-21 vs F-15 match up.

[Mike Busutil]

The F-14 will just shoot the F-5 down from a hundred miles out. Turning rate is a non issue :D

[Darkbrotherhood7]

The F-14 will just shoot the F-5 down from a hundred miles out. Turning rate is a non issue :D

 

^^This!

[Hummingbird]

The F-14 will just shoot the F-5 down from a hundred miles out. Turning rate is a non issue :D

 

In RL maybe sometimes, depends on many things, incl. how well the F-5 is picked up on radar etc. But ingame people will want to dogfight, so you can betcha there's going to be a lot of turning :)

[Kev2go]

oho, the MiG-21 is pretty hard to fight. Just went MP -Basic- server. The MiG really is quite a bit faster and the F-5 should better not run out of speed. Also the MiG avionics are superior except the RWR. Fighting the MiG is truly epic! Finally a rival ������

 

actually no, not just the RWR. F5E's Radar is also better. Off borseeight tracking/lock, and the max range offers up to 40NM = 74km. Mig21biS radar has max range of 30km.

 

and the sight+ radar also provide better gunnery solution, than that of the mig when it has to go guns.

[WinterH]

I think I was in same server as Lusi_6, and got schooled pretty badly :D. Not unexpected though, since it has been a long long time since I joined a PvP server, and haven't entirely came to grips with F-5 yet.

 

Closest I came to scoring a kill was a case I was gunning a MiG, and scored some hits, but another F-5 was gunning that same MiG and it was him who got the kill. I was flying with a single engine though, as my right engine got damaged and flamed out right after takeoff when an aircraft looming above swooped down and attacked me with guns, though I am not sure if it was a MiG or friendly fire, in any case, he couldn't finish my jet.

 

I've scored gun hits on two more, but it was not sufficient enough to take them down, they were just potshots. While chasing the second one, I ran out of ammo, and got R-60'd while trying to RTB.

 

F-5 noob first impressions :

 

- As I have been thinking, R-3R hasn't been an issue as much as people think, I've been fired with R-3R once or twice, and easily spoofed it. Though, even a spoofed missile can usually mean a better merge setup for MiG if they don't lose contact. R-60 seem to work real fine though :P. I turned towards the 21 spike that launched R-3R to me, but it seems there was another MiG-21, now behind me, which hit me with R-60.

 

- Giving chase to MiGs seem pretty fruitless, they can pull away like nobody's business. Climbing with them seem even less fruitful.

 

- While the Tiger can turn quite better, especially instantaneously, and is much, much more resistant to departures, thanks to MiG's better vertical performance and better T/W ratio, it isn't without it's tricks either.

 

- That RWR makes life sooooooo much easier compared to SPO-10 :D.

 

- Radar is overall better, and even seem to have some limited look down capability.

 

- Missiles currently don't seem to be too condusive for a dogfight in F-5. Locking isn't easy, and even then, they seem to have a long minimum range, as they don't seem to be able to turn too sharply towards a maneuvering target after launch. R-60M on the other hand, while also somewhat difficult to lock with, and shorter ranged, has no issue with pulling sharp and close launches off.

[Hummingbird]

Also keep in mind that the F-5 is turning too well atm as noted in this update thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2850153#post2850153

 

 

"Turn perfomance at 5000ft. Sustained turn curve has no step on 330 KIAS.

Max lift g-loads. According to TO at 5000 ft and GW 13750 the F-5 can achieve 6.0 G at M = 0.5. In simulator the plane can achieve 6.6 at M=0.5 and 7.1 at M = 0.52."

 

In other words expect a 0.6 to 1 G deterioration in turn rate soon.

 

In real life the MiG-21Bis & F-5E-3 aren't that far from each other in terms of turn performance, something you will see once this is corrected. I also think the MiG's superior acceleration/climb & speed will then really begin to matter.

[TomCatMucDe]

I think I was in same server as Lusi_6, and got schooled pretty badly :D. Not unexpected though, since it has been a long long time since I joined a PvP server, and haven't entirely came to grips with F-5 yet.

 

Closest I came to scoring a kill was a case I was gunning a MiG, and scored some hits, but another F-5 was gunning that same MiG and it was him who got the kill. I was flying with a single engine though, as my right engine got damaged and flamed out right after takeoff when an aircraft looming above swooped down and attacked me with guns, though I am not sure if it was a MiG or friendly fire, in any case, he couldn't finish my jet.

 

I've scored gun hits on two more, but it was not sufficient enough to take them down, they were just potshots. While chasing the second one, I ran out of ammo, and got R-60'd while trying to RTB.

 

F-5 noob first impressions :

 

- As I have been thinking, R-3R hasn't been an issue as much as people think, I've been fired with R-3R once or twice, and easily spoofed it. Though, even a spoofed missile can usually mean a better merge setup for MiG if they don't lose contact. R-60 seem to work real fine though :P. I turned towards the 21 spike that launched R-3R to me, but it seems there was another MiG-21, now behind me, which hit me with R-60.

 

- Giving chase to MiGs seem pretty fruitless, they can pull away like nobody's business. Climbing with them seem even less fruitful.

 

- While the Tiger can turn quite better, especially instantaneously, and is much, much more resistant to departures, thanks to MiG's better vertical performance and better T/W ratio, it isn't without it's tricks either.

 

- That RWR makes life sooooooo much easier compared to SPO-10 :D.

 

- Radar is overall better, and even seem to have some limited look down capability.

 

- Missiles currently don't seem to be too condusive for a dogfight in F-5. Locking isn't easy, and even then, they seem to have a long minimum range, as they don't seem to be able to turn too sharply towards a maneuvering target after launch. R-60M on the other hand, while also somewhat difficult to lock with, and shorter ranged, has no issue with pulling sharp and close launches off.

 

 

 

The radar of the Mig is bugged again now so the R3R aren't being used with their full potential.

[grunf]

The radar of the Mig is bugged again now so the R3R aren't being used with their full potential.

not sure if it's bugged. MiG's radar is pretty much useless below 1000m, and nobody was flying that high when I was on the server.

[TomCatMucDe]

not sure if it's bugged. MiG's radar is pretty much useless below 1000m, and nobody was flying that high when I was on the server.

 

I am issues above 1000m and I dont see ground clutter.

[mlazos]

The whole idea is about maintaining the planes energy. I dont turn with a Mig. I go veryival. To change direction i climb and turn to maintain my energy. Turning on the same altitude or losing altitude you lose energy which needs time to regain.

I usually go vertical and only turn fight when im already at 6 o clock and i try to get a tone for the lock.

The main problem is the small field of view of the missile, and another problem is the missile is not looking in to the gun reticle.

The last thing, and the biggest problem, i can easily lose the target at very close range, when is flying above terrain and merges with the ground which is not realistic. DCS should at least try to implement the smart scaling the military simulators are using. I have tried everything to increase the contrast so i can spot the planes easier when im close but many times i lost site even at 1 mile. The target just simply disappears. This is the most important issue and a big drawback. Effects the whole fun of the sinulator. We are not supposed to stick our eyes on the screen. Its frustrating, and all the joy is gone. Falcon BMS doesnt have this issue and i hope DCS to do something about it now.

I dont have a big monitor, i dont have VR headset but still i want to have fun. Thats my experience with the F-5.

The dogfights Mig-21 vs F-5 can be the best part of the game if they resolve the visibility issue.

People were exoecting BFM and real dogfights for years. Radar kills is not so much fun and doesnt take much skill. So far F-5E is by far my favourite plane and the F-5 vs Mig-21 the only event i enjoy.

[Nerd1000]

The whole idea is about maintaining the planes energy. I dont turn with a Mig. I go veryival. To change direction i climb and turn to maintain my energy. Turning on the same altitude or losing altitude you lose energy which needs time to regain.

I usually go vertical and only turn fight when im already at 6 o clock and i try to get a tone for the lock.

The main problem is the small field of view of the missile, and another problem is the missile is not looking in to the gun reticle.

The last thing, and the biggest problem, i can easily lose the target at very close range, when is flying above terrain and merges with the ground which is not realistic. DCS should at least try to implement the smart scaling the military simulators are using. I have tried everything to increase the contrast so i can spot the planes easier when im close but many times i lost site even at 1 mile. The target just simply disappears. This is the most important issue and a big drawback. Effects the whole fun of the sinulator. We are not supposed to stick our eyes on the screen. Its frustrating, and all the joy is gone. Falcon BMS doesnt have this issue and i hope DCS to do something about it now.

I dont have a big monitor, i dont have VR headset but still i want to have fun. Thats my experience with the F-5.

The dogfights Mig-21 vs F-5 can be the best part of the game if they resolve the visibility issue.

People were exoecting BFM and real dogfights for years. Radar kills is not so much fun and doesnt take much skill. So far F-5E is by far my favourite plane and the F-5 vs Mig-21 the only event i enjoy.

 

Be careful relying on vertical maneuvers vs the MiG- he has a better TWR and top speed, so while your better turn rate will let you win in loops and similar moves the MiG can quickly gain an advantage if you use many climbs and dives.

 

Another note- the MiG's afterburner drinks fuel like a Russian alcoholic whose wife has left him, especially at low altitude. That means that you don't actually need to win a 1v1 dogfight- if you can force the MiG to stay in afterburner for more than a couple of minutes he will probably end up on bingo fuel and be forced to retreat, presenting you with an easy shot.

[Mad-Mex]

The F-14 will just shoot the F-5 down from a hundred miles out. Turning rate is a non issue :D

 

Same things they said about the F-4C, "It wont need guns, the missiles will shot the MIGs down",,,,

[Darkbrotherhood7]

Same things they said about the F-4C, "It wont need guns, the missiles will shot the MIGs down",,,,

 

That's why the F-14 has a M-61 cannon.;)

[Mad-Mex]

That's why the F-14 has a M-61 cannon.;)

 

OK, you got me ,,,,,,,,,,,,, but we were talking missiles,,, Ill give you half a kill,,,

[Dino Might]

There is already plenty of opportunity for MiG21s to sneak up on F15s and Mirages in the canyons, even when up against the AMRAAM spam, not to mention the incredible ease of notching and breaking lock. I anticipate the extreme range advantage can be made null with a good pilot usin terrain and patience.

[Mad-Mex]

There is already plenty of opportunity for MiG21s to sneak up on F15s and Mirages in the canyons, even when up against the AMRAAM spam, not to mention the incredible ease of notching and breaking lock. I anticipate the extreme range advantage can be made null with a good pilot usin terrain and patience.

 

Funny you mention that, there was or there is film of an F-5 rolling in, performing a couple of aileron rolls , keeping the piper dead center on an unsuspecting F-15 shortly after it was thought of as the premier fighter...

 

Its not the size of the dog but the size of the fight in the dog.