"Buddy Spike" - DCS World Online Events

[winchesterdelta1]

I had a talk a week a go. With some people. And we all agreed that the AIM-120C, ER and ET need to get back into the game again for balance. We find that more balanced because balance is amazing, otherwise we cry cry no more wanne play.

[levanoga]

ED should move their butts and create a russian equivalent of the A-10C in terms of complexity and realism - a multirole fighter which is CAS capable. Does someone knows if there is declassified stuff on the subject ?

Russian doctrine uses rotary wing assets for CAS and not fixed wing. Fixed wing only deals with AI.

[QuiGon]

I had a talk a week a go. With some people. And we all agreed that the AIM-120C, ER and ET need to get back into the game again for balance. We find that more balanced because balance is amazing, otherwise we cry cry no more wanne play.

 

Different concepts:

We try to bring different concepts each time. Nothing will ever be perfectly balanced but each side has advantages and disadvantages.

 

Sides can plan different tactics when they are outnumbered on specific timezones, other tactics when they are more, different attack methods based on their targets and aircraft availability etc.

 

That's the goal of the campaign. We think that it's better spending time to find the best tactics for your side instead of arguing about what the enemy has and what shouldn't have.

And if someone compares it with real wars, well the fighting sides have no option to ask the enemy of not using specific weapons.

 

Let's enjoy what we have

 

Greg

 

The current 80s BlueFlag is just one form of BlueFlag. There will be a modern BlueFlag with AIM-120 and R-27 again in the future. Why is this so difficult to understand?...

[Nero.ger]

and what is with the Mirage and Mig21?

If anything we should talor the game more towards the complexer Planes than the simple ones.

 

One the other hand, why not change the Concept completly to a even more async-mode. i dont know maybe the "nato" with all its good toys has to deal with coleteral damage and precice targeting and limited lifes while the..."undefined aggressor land" somewhere in the middle east hast shiity equipment but but does not care about pilot lives or Political Correctness.

But i am getting of track here :)

Edited July 20, 2016 by Nero.ger

[levanoga]

First off the whole force correlate thing is a bunch of bs. Also didn't they finally make it so it doesn't function like a long range sniper missle as it is not in real life? I would recommend if you bring Hotels back you should also bring back the K and G versions as they are truly used for anti structure.

 

You can easily take out SAMs with D's you just have to use terrain and tactics.

 

 

Whole other ish topic as far as the server host is concerned since everybody is so concerned about balance and such maybe you should consider using the Rockets and Bomb mod for the blast effectiveness so infantry and light skinned vehicles actually get effected by a 5 meter miss by a mk-82 and Russian equivalent. Same goes for rockets. Just so you know before people get all angry about having to install mods, only the server host has to run it.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2837221&postcount=49

 

works very well and is far from a god type change

 

Sustain keep the varied and intense weather

Mavericks are broken since day 1 and they do not act as they should.

[microvax]

Had a great conversation with some red and blue players today! Thanks to Body_Organ, Beeroshima, Chrinik, and Elmo!

 

We talked about a lot, but there were a few things that were brought up numerous times and were all in agreement on.

 

1) Having this 80s year restriction causes major issues in balance and causes people to fight about what should and should not be in the game due to what year it came out, etc. We thought that it would be better to instead say we just want balance and a round that does not inlcude the AIM 120 and its red counterpart for this example.

 

2) The A10C gets its AGM-65-H back and the SU25 gets the KU-25-MPU and the pod back. This gives both jets some stand off range. I know that the A10C is at a disadvantage here because we don't have the pod to find radiation sites, but there will be some tradeoffs. The 65-H gives the A10C some standoff range against Kubs when using the Force Correlate and the SEAD missle for red gives them some standoff range against both the Kubs and the SA-8. A10C in its tradeoff is much better at hitting multiple targets in one pass.

 

3)The weather. It is ALWAYS raining. Can we stop this? I understand rain sometimes, but for almost every single restart it has been raining since the start of testing. Also, the 10k clouds are a problem for the A10C if we want to balance out for the SU25 getting the 25MPU and pod. Not being able to get high enough, especially in the mountains, makes it very hard to find Kubs. The SU25s pod has no issues looking through clouds, but the A10Cs TGP is limited to line of sight.

 

4) Allow the M2000 to start with the INS already aligned. This allows it, in the round of Blue Falg, to be the equal to reds Mig29S. It can take up to 8 minutes to align while the Mig29 simply has to refuel and off it goes.

 

5) Add the Mig29A to the foward bases. Blue gets the M2000 at forward bases. Should red get the Mig29A?

 

6) Blues JTAC can drive while reds cannot. Can we make it so reds JTAC can drive? Seems to make sense since thats what JTACs are in the game to do.

 

7) Have more open disucssions about what Blue Flag is and how we can make it better in the future in a voice dialog on TS or Skype instead of allowing conversations to disparage into cesspools of crap here on the forums.

 

Side note - KP90 Comms stations coordinates are wrong on the app. Also it seems the comm station is sitting at 18k feet on top of a mountain. Is this intended?

 

Both red and blue were in agreements for everything that was said above. Now, I know that the people talking were in a limited number, but I think it was a good converstaion about balance etc.

 

+1337

[NaCH]

I had a talk a week a go. With some people. And we all agreed that the AIM-120C, ER and ET need to get back into the game again for balance. We find that more balanced because balance is amazing, otherwise we cry cry no more wanne play.

 

I'm guessing based on your comment that you never participated in the other blue flags prior to this.

[gregzagk]

I had a talk a week a go. With some people. And we all agreed that the AIM-120C, ER and ET need to get back into the game again for balance. We find that more balanced because balance is amazing, otherwise we cry cry no more wanne play.

 

And then you won't cry anymore but MiG-21, M2k, chopper pilots will cry cry no more wanne play :D

 

Seen this before. There isn't and won't be any setup that will fit to all players. That's normal. Some people were asking Nato vs Russia concept and now we have it with these specific restrictions. In the next these restrictions will change and will change and change again in the future events.

 

Back then, there were even people asking for having all modules available in both sides to get it totally balanced (but even then it won't be as a side might show up with more active pilots etc).

Round 5 was the best for some players and for others was the worst and so on.

 

Personally I like getting a concept from the ones that organize an event and work with it and with the tools I get. It's challenging and interesting even if you finding hard to adjust in some scenarios and possibly lose.

 

Greg

Edited July 20, 2016 by gregzagk

[winchesterdelta1]

I'm guessing based on your comment that you never participated in the other blue flags prior to this.

 

I did. But not much. Just started again on the Red side this time. I think it's fun to fight a overwhelming force and be the underdog. If i (we) don't' win.. who cares. At least i did my utter most best and had fun with it doing so. But i'm here to fight with or against modern weapons and all it's available capability's that is brought by the game (exception for Nukes). But different kind of scenario's are cool to. But i have the feeling that the different kind of scenarios are not chosen because of the scenario itself. But just to restrict weapons cause some people don't like certain weapons. Leave SU-25T with SEAD/DEAD missiles and such. If you are to lazy to search and intercept them before they can fire those missiles at standoff range you failed big time and it's you own fault. Those things are flying slow as hell as it is. and you know exactly where they come from. For every good or bad weapon there is a defense or a way to use it more effective. If you are to lazy to learn those way's it's your own fault. Every weapon and tactic can be countered. If that means not flying on your own against F-15's to achieve that. Maybe start thinking of training with a wingman. I have literately been destroyed and humiliated by a pair of Flankers some weeks ago. Six times in a row because they had ER and i only AIM-7. You heard me cry? No it was fun.. And a lot was learned. Next time i can identify such a engagement and early and stay out of it or get a friend to help me. Lets discuss nice game mechanics instead of weapon this and that needs to be in or taken away. Increase the difficulty and diversity of the things you can do.

[QuiGon]

I did. But not much. Just started again on the Red side this time. I think it's fun to fight a overwhelming force and be the underdog. If i (we) don't' win.. who cares. At least i did my utter most best and had fun with it doing so. But i'm here to fight with or against modern weapons and all it's available capability's that is brought by the game (exception for Nukes). But different kind of scenario's are cool to. But i have the feeling that the different kind of scenarios are not chosen because of the scenario itself. But just to restrict weapons cause some people don't like certain weapons. Leave SU-25T with SEAD/DEAD missiles and such. If you are to lazy to search and intercept them before they can fire those missiles at standoff range you failed big time and it's you own fault. Those things are flying slow as hell as it is. and you know exactly where they come from. For every good or bad weapon there is a defense or a way to use it more effective. If you are to lazy to learn those way's it's your own fault. Every weapon and tactic can be countered. If that means not flying on your own against F-15's to achieve that. Maybe start thinking of training with a wingman. I have literately been destroyed and humiliated by a pair of Flankers some weeks ago. Six times in a row because they had ER and i only AIM-7. You heard me cry? No it was fun.. And a lot was learned. Next time i can identify such a engagement and early and stay out of it or get a friend to help me. Lets discuss nice game mechanics instead of weapon this and that needs to be in or taken away. Increase the difficulty and diversity of the things you can do.

 

Keep in mind that there are non FC3-aircraft like the MiG-21, which have a hard time against F-15s, no matter how good you are. So restricting those modern FC3 fighters from their advanced weapons like the AIM-120 by creating something like an 80s scenario makes these aircraft more useful. Ane even for FC3 pilots, it is a different experience having to rely on SARH missiles and fight with them.

 

So different Blue Flag concepts offer nice variety. I'm really looking forward to the Korea Blue Flag to put my Sabre to good use :)

[roccoo]

Is there something wrong with ts? I cannot connect at the moment.

[Chrinik]

You can easily take out SAMs with D's you just have to use terrain and tactics.

 

There is no terrain to use around Maykop...

[BodyOrgan]

Had a great conversation with some red and blue players today! Thanks to Body_Organ, Beeroshima, Chrinik, and Elmo!

 

We talked about a lot, but there were a few things that were brought up numerous times and were all in agreement on.

 

1) Having this 80s year restriction causes major issues in balance and causes people to fight about what should and should not be in the game due to what year it came out, etc. We thought that it would be better to instead say we just want balance and a round that does not inlcude the AIM 120 and its red counterpart for this example.

 

2) The A10C gets its AGM-65-H back and the SU25 gets the KU-25-MPU and the pod back. This gives both jets some stand off range. I know that the A10C is at a disadvantage here because we don't have the pod to find radiation sites, but there will be some tradeoffs. The 65-H gives the A10C some standoff range against Kubs when using the Force Correlate and the SEAD missle for red gives them some standoff range against both the Kubs and the SA-8. A10C in its tradeoff is much better at hitting multiple targets in one pass.

 

3)The weather. It is ALWAYS raining. Can we stop this? I understand rain sometimes, but for almost every single restart it has been raining since the start of testing. Also, the 10k clouds are a problem for the A10C if we want to balance out for the SU25 getting the 25MPU and pod. Not being able to get high enough, especially in the mountains, makes it very hard to find Kubs. The SU25s pod has no issues looking through clouds, but the A10Cs TGP is limited to line of sight.

 

4) Allow the M2000 to start with the INS already aligned. This allows it, in the round of Blue Falg, to be the equal to reds Mig29S. It can take up to 8 minutes to align while the Mig29 simply has to refuel and off it goes.

 

5) Add the Mig29A to the foward bases. Blue gets the M2000 at forward bases. Should red get the Mig29A?

 

6) Blues JTAC can drive while reds cannot. Can we make it so reds JTAC can drive? Seems to make sense since thats what JTACs are in the game to do.

 

7) Have more open disucssions about what Blue Flag is and how we can make it better in the future in a voice dialog on TS or Skype instead of allowing conversations to disparage into cesspools of crap here on the forums.

 

Side note - KP90 Comms stations coordinates are wrong on the app. Also it seems the comm station is sitting at 18k feet on top of a mountain. Is this intended?

 

Both red and blue were in agreements for everything that was said above. Now, I know that the people talking were in a limited number, but I think it was a good converstaion about balance etc.

+1 and just want to note, this is testing, so I would like to try these changes. They of course don't have to be kept if it doesn't work out, but then it would give more data on what we could try next.

[Enduro14]

There is no terrain to use around Maykop...

 

You would be suprised i thought the same until it mattered and had to get as small as possible.. That is one thing VR and 3d does so well is gives you the relief and contours of the terrain right in your face.

[VentZer0]

Had a great conversation with some red and blue players today! Thanks to Body_Organ, Beeroshima, Chrinik, and Elmo!

 

We talked about a lot, but there were a few things that were brought up numerous times and were all in agreement on.

 

1) Having this 80s year restriction causes major issues in balance and causes people to fight about what should and should not be in the game due to what year it came out, etc. We thought that it would be better to instead say we just want balance and a round that does not inlcude the AIM 120 and its red counterpart for this example.

 

2) The A10C gets its AGM-65-H back and the SU25 gets the KU-25-MPU and the pod back. This gives both jets some stand off range. I know that the A10C is at a disadvantage here because we don't have the pod to find radiation sites, but there will be some tradeoffs. The 65-H gives the A10C some standoff range against Kubs when using the Force Correlate and the SEAD missle for red gives them some standoff range against both the Kubs and the SA-8. A10C in its tradeoff is much better at hitting multiple targets in one pass.

 

3)The weather. It is ALWAYS raining. Can we stop this? I understand rain sometimes, but for almost every single restart it has been raining since the start of testing. Also, the 10k clouds are a problem for the A10C if we want to balance out for the SU25 getting the 25MPU and pod. Not being able to get high enough, especially in the mountains, makes it very hard to find Kubs. The SU25s pod has no issues looking through clouds, but the A10Cs TGP is limited to line of sight.

 

4) Allow the M2000 to start with the INS already aligned. This allows it, in the round of Blue Falg, to be the equal to reds Mig29S. It can take up to 8 minutes to align while the Mig29 simply has to refuel and off it goes.

 

5) Add the Mig29A to the foward bases. Blue gets the M2000 at forward bases. Should red get the Mig29A?

 

6) Blues JTAC can drive while reds cannot. Can we make it so reds JTAC can drive? Seems to make sense since thats what JTACs are in the game to do.

 

7) Have more open disucssions about what Blue Flag is and how we can make it better in the future in a voice dialog on TS or Skype instead of allowing conversations to disparage into cesspools of crap here on the forums.

 

Side note - KP90 Comms stations coordinates are wrong on the app. Also it seems the comm station is sitting at 18k feet on top of a mountain. Is this intended?

 

Both red and blue were in agreements for everything that was said above. Now, I know that the people talking were in a limited number, but I think it was a good converstaion about balance etc.

 

+1 and just want to note, this is testing, so I would like to try these changes. They of course don't have to be kept if it doesn't work out, but then it would give more data on what we could try next.

 

 

I fully support this message and / or product.

[mia389]

Had a great conversation with some red and blue players today! Beeroshima, Chrinik

 

:D Can we have the recorded audio on that. I hope it was more civil than the forums.

 

All kidding aside its easy to get dragged into a raging debate when its not an adult conversion (bb fourms). I bet your conversation was a much different tone than on here. Might of been actually constructive.

 

Never knew red could not drive jtacs.

 

:thumbup: Fly safe

[Beeroshima]

It absolutely was. Admittedly i come across as a huge dick on the forums. As much as I love arguing, im absolutely interested in balance for the exercise above all else because in a game, it's imperative for its success, lest we start counting moral victories.

 

There was quite a bit of breakthrough and we learned several things we didn't know were affecting the other side. The red jtacs not being drive able for example, which xcom pointed out theyre now going to look into.

Overall, chatting cooperatively with the other side about balance was constructive, polite, educational, and above all, something we should schedule regularly in my opinion.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[Beeroshima]

I did. But not much. But just to restrict weapons cause some people don't like certain weapons. Leave SU-25T with SEAD/DEAD missiles and such. If you are to lazy to search and intercept them before they can fire those missiles at standoff range you failed big time and it's you own fault. Those things are flying slow as hell as it is. and you know exactly where they come from.

 

You can fire kh 58's and kill radar from nearly 300 km away. The mpu's will self destruct after 60 seconds of flight time or whatever, but I don't think you know as much about these missiles as younimply. Otherwise you wouldn't be implying that blue should intercept them on the other side of the map or they failed.

 

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[StandingCow]

It absolutely was. Admittedly i come across as a huge dick on the forums. As much as I love arguing, im absolutely interested in balance for the exercise above all else because in a game, it's imperative for its success, lest we start counting moral victories.

 

There was quite a bit of breakthrough and we learned several things we didn't know were affecting the other side. The red jtacs not being drive able for example, which xcom pointed out theyre now going to look into.

Overall, chatting cooperatively with the other side about balance was constructive, polite, educational, and above all, something we should schedule regularly in my opinion.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

 

Well, text has never been known to correctly convey one's emotions very well.

[Beeroshima]

Lol, who knows this more than me?

 

Love and sincerely,

Your resident forum asshole.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[mia389]

You can fire kh 58's and kill radar from nearly 300 km away. The mpu's will self destruct after 60 seconds of flight time or whatever, but I don't think you know as much about these missiles as younimply. Otherwise you wouldn't be implying that blue should intercept them on the other side of the map or they failed.

 

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

 

I think he meant intercept the aircraft

[Beeroshima]

Are you suggesting that he's right? You think intercepting an aircraft that can fire a missile from 300 km away is feasible and if you dont, its "your fault"?

 

How do you even detect an Su25t at 300km? I think you guys are out of touch if you think that's gonna happen.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[Frostie]

Kh-58 is not in for good reason, blue sams just wouldn't exist. They can be overidden at 4 times range.

[winchesterdelta1]

Keep in mind that there are non FC3-aircraft like the MiG-21, which have a hard time against F-15s, no matter how good you are.

 

The SU-27's and MIG-29's are there to ESCORT those less modern planes. They should not go on their own to a high risk target. If the MIG-21's and other slow movers don't take the time to actually arrange a escort. Or if the Fighters don't want to help. Maybe we should just go play air-quake if we don't even want to ESCORT them. There are simple real life solutions to this. But what do we do... We ask to get weapons scrapped cause we are to lazy to arrange a escort. Or because they actually don't want to talk to other people than their mig-21, SU-25, A-10C friends. We asking for all this realism and team work. But the simple things that can achieve that are not even considered.

 

How many times slow movers have asked for dedicated fighter ESCORT to come with them on a mission? Or arrange a strike package? Maybe we should start actually protect our assets instead of letting them go in alone. Stronger planes and weapons are overcome by team work and superior tactics. And if you still don't win you will have the satisfaction that you actually tried everything and you fought hard to try and accomplish your goal with all the resources you had to your disposal.

[Beeroshima]

I dont know who you're playing with but we do that kind of thing regularly on blue.

 

Coordination?! Good idea man! Why didn't we think of that!?

 

Come on dude.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.