1.5.1.46722.87 Model Visibility removal

[HornedGod]

So with 1.5.1.46722.87 it looks like the Model Visibility option has been removed and a new Model Enlargement one added to the Gameplay section.

 

To my eyes, the new setting, even at Large, is nowhere near as good as the previous Model Visibility.

 

The old (sic) way had the distant 3D model replaced with a scaled and alphaed billboard, and you could always spot the transition between the billboard back to the 3D model. It wasn't ideal but the greater clarity at range was very much appreciated, especially in a warbird.

 

The new setting looks to keep the 3D model active all the time but scale the LOD version (?). A far away aircraft is a solid dot instead of the blurry bunch of pixels with the previous method.

 

Why the change?

[Ranbi2Delta]

I personally find that the new system works pretty well. I'm actually finding it easier to spot and keep track of targets.

[HornedGod]

So, it seems the new settings do work. It's just that they only apply after you do a full exit and restart of the whole game. Whew, thank goodness.

 

I've only tried the Large setting so far, and I think it might even be slightly overdone. You can clearly see the orientation of planes from a bazillion miles.

 

Pretty sure that the fact it only takes after a full game restart is a bug. Can we get that one logged and fixed?

[Breakshot]

The current visibility enlargement is quite a joke and should, IMO be banned from any MP flight. Effectively you are seeing flying Kuznetsovs from million miles away. On the ground, units look like warehouses (even civ traffic is affected).

 

The previous patch with Large setting was done just right, IMO.

 

The current one is beyond comical, it's not even funny.

 

Отправлено с моего C5502 через Tapatalk

[vicx]

This does NOT look like a bug report.

 

If you have an opinion on this feature, take it to the right forum and have at it. This sort of post doesn't belong in the bug report section.

[Darkwolf]

1.5.0 was already a joke. Tanks at 20km were the size of a jet parking space. I am afraid to launch 1.5.1

[Witchking]

if u guys don't like it...don't use it. why complain about it so much? I must admit my eyes aren't good enough... I need that enlarged visibility to be able to enjoy the sim without labels which is totally a fantastic idea.

[Darkwolf]

Thats a simulation. Spotting a tank with your eye at 30km isn't realistic. IRL, i can park a tank 5km from you and you wouldn't see it even if i tell you which direction. Its jist turning the game moar easy for a10s.... In mp, ot come down to having some people playing with labels and somewithout.

[CallsignFrosty]

Thats a simulation. Spotting a tank with your eye at 30km isn't realistic. IRL, i can park a tank 5km from you and you wouldn't see it even if i tell you which direction. Its jist turning the game moar easy for a10s.... In mp, ot come down to having some people playing with labels and somewithout.

 

And the 1.5km aircraft view distance before was realistic?

This is not a bug, please do not report it as such, the rest of the forums are for opinion! :smartass:

[Golo]

I agree, this implementation is extremly unrealistic.

Even on "small" setting i was able to spot small L-39 even over 30km quite easily, which is total bs.

 

The two highest settings are total joke, might as well put neon signs "im here" all over the sky instead of aircrafts.

 

Basicly enlarged model visibility should only apply below 20km unless verry big airframe to be somewhat realistic and "small" seting is the sweet spot imho.

 

One more thing, changing of this settings require game restart for me, not cool.

[ESAc_matador]

take it easy guys... DCS guys are tweaking to get the best results..

[nigelmcelwee]

its on a different menu now.

[HornedGod]

In another thread SithSpawn stated that the new large setting is aimed at VR usage. With the slightly lower res of VR displays it may indeed need to be that large. The Small setting is akin to the previous Enlarged option. I found that to be perfectly usable in helping highlight far away contacts without making it immersion breaking.

 

So, the only real bug here is that you need to restart to see your change take effect.

[Why485]

So with 1.5.1.46722.87 it looks like the Model Visibility option has been removed and a new Model Enlargement one added to the Gameplay section.

 

To my eyes, the new setting, even at Large, is nowhere near as good as the previous Model Visibility.

 

The old (sic) way had the distant 3D model replaced with a scaled and alphaed billboard, and you could always spot the transition between the billboard back to the 3D model. It wasn't ideal but the greater clarity at range was very much appreciated, especially in a warbird.

 

The new setting looks to keep the 3D model active all the time but scale the LOD version (?). A far away aircraft is a solid dot instead of the blurry bunch of pixels with the previous method.

 

Why the change?

 

The system hasn't changed at all. All that's changed is the values that are used for each setting. If you liked how it used to look, the new Small setting is very close to what Enlarged used to look like.

 

It's still drawing a billboard, but the transition point (maxsize) was moved further away so it wouldn't be as noticeable as it used to be.

 

Here's what's changed. I posted this in another thread, but it's now closed.

 

The values were raised across the board, and then a large setting was added on top of it.

 

Small is now slightly bigger than what Enlarged used to be. Medium is even bigger than that, and large is twice as big as Enlarged used to be.

 

To put numbers to it, here's how the settings changed from 1.5. This number represents how small the imposter is allowed to get and is measured in pixels. The larger the number, the larger the imposter. The first value is 1.5, the second value is 1.5.1.

 

Small: 3.0 -> 6.0

Medium: 5.0 -> 8.0

Large: 10.0

 

They also set the alphaExp values to 0 for all the settings, which makes the imposters darker at a distance than they used to be.

 

Aside from these new preset values, no changes have been made to the rendering as far as I can tell. A value of 10.0 now acts exactly like it did in 1.5.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Why485

[Ultra]

Just for more input:

It sort of seems like a bug or mistake, I had my setting on 'Small' and I had restarted DCS to let it take effect. Then in MP I was seeing fighter planes as large blurry 'plane shapes' from in excess of 40km away! These shapes were about the size of a plane with old settings at maybe 5km. Hopefully this was user error on my part since it seems very strange. I'll have to check it again another time.

[FSKRipper]

Just for more input:

It sort of seems like a bug or mistake, I had my setting on 'Small' and I had restarted DCS to let it take effect. Then in MP I was seeing fighter planes as large blurry 'plane shapes' from in excess of 40km away! These shapes were about the size of a plane with old settings at maybe 5km. Hopefully this was user error on my part since it seems very strange. I'll have to check it again another time.

 

Have not seen something like that before.

 

Otherwise, ED gives us the room to use these options like we want to. So where is the problem guys?

 

I intend to buy a rift next year, after watching several reviews I have come to the conclusion that every setting below medium enlargement would be wide more than unrealistic so please stop begging for a removal of this feature. If you want a server override option, well it's fine for me. but demanding to remove this feature is simply selfish and stupid regarding implementation of new features.

Edited November 9, 2015 by FSKRipper

[Ultra]

Yes it's very strange. Another thing, I had changed my settings to Small, but I think they hadn't taken effect and it was still set to Large.

 

That being said I was able to see these blurry plane shapes on a MP match from about 80-100km away! Like I said, I think this was while I was still stuck on the Large setting. Obviously results like that have no place in the sim unless it somehow benefits Oculus Rift or something. It's my belief that it just needs some major tweaking.

 

Of course I'm fine with certain settings if they serve a practical purpose to help some users.

[Ktulu2]

Just for more input:

It sort of seems like a bug or mistake, I had my setting on 'Small' and I had restarted DCS to let it take effect. Then in MP I was seeing fighter planes as large blurry 'plane shapes' from in excess of 40km away! These shapes were about the size of a plane with old settings at maybe 5km. Hopefully this was user error on my part since it seems very strange. I'll have to check it again another time.

 

I can confirm shuch things...Yesterday when I died I went into spectator mode in the 104th (don't ask me how...no idea) and I could see 5-6 airplanes just over the bull's eye at an altitude (of my view) of 35-40K'

[SharpeXB]

Perhaps the setting was moved from "graphics" to "gameplay" since it's now akin to using labels and should be regulated in multiplayer in the same manner.

[last1976]

As the graphics in a whole are somehow corrupted in the latest patch, for example object blending etc. I would recommend you guys waiting on the hotfix and the results will be more representative.

[SharpeXB]

In another thread SithSpawn stated that the new large setting is aimed at VR usage. With the slightly lower res of VR displays it may indeed need to be that large.

Perhaps ED should not be tailoring features around VR when:

- It's users are only a very small fraction of the players.

- The products are still in the crude prototype stage.

 

It's certain that these headsets are going to have much higher resolution displays in the future but trying to accommodate them now only makes the game garish for the majority of the players. Really VR is just not ready for combat flight sims. Give it some time and it may well be. But for now, from most accounts, the resolution is just to low.

[TomOnSteam]

I think large is fine even on a 24" 1080p monitor - You still need to know roughly where to look to spot them, it just means they are easier to spot now. It's hardly a cheat. For aircraft anyway.

 

Ground targets look a little weird because you have roads and buildings next to them for scale. I noticed that trees stand out a lot in 1.5 - perhaps there is something they could do to ground targets that make them stand out like the trees do, instead of increasing size. Either way I think ground targets could do with having their own set of scaling.

[vicx]

With the slightly lower res of VR displays it may indeed need to be that large.

 

This is a significant reason but it is not even the main reason.

 

The reason that it is so hard to see stuff at a distance in VR is

• the FOV that VR has to use to work properly is locked to high setting. Approximately 105-106 degrees vertical and 94-95 degrees horizontal.
  
• the fact that there is NO ZOOM. In VR mode you can't ZOOM because the FOV is locked.
  

 

Try playing DCS with a FOV of 93-94 and then add a little bit of fish-eye distortion and no ability to zoom and tell me what you can see 2km away.

 

Perhaps ED should not be tailoring features around VR.

 

I actually agree. ED should make a totally new engine which is exclusively VR. I would switch and never look back.

[SharpeXB]

ED should make a totally new engine which is exclusively VR.

It sounds like VR is not ready for flight sims yet. It will need much higher resolution. I'm not sure ED should be distorting all the game graphics based upon the specs of these prototype devices.

Because a setting that is a necessary game aid for a "nearsighted" Oculus wearer means a monitor user can see planes 30km away. A minimum 10 pixel sized object is ludicrous.

[vicx]

It sounds like VR is not ready for flight sims yet.

 

That is a false assumption and I think you probably know that.

 

Zooming is not realistic but it is in DCS as usability tool. Usability. A Visibility setting is simply a usability tool just the same as Zooming is.

 

If you accept Zooming as a practical compromise of realism then why not accept visibility settings for the same reason.

 

The only reason you don't like it is because you got your perfect setup and ... I don't know why you are against helping other people to get theirs.