DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

[Stratos]

Those who want some better air-to-air representation: Recall that LNS included the Kh-66 GROM with the MiG-21bis. It could be possible that they might add the Skyflash for the purposes of gameplay.

 

I will love that. After all is possible to limit the loadouts on the MP games.

[QuiGon]

Those who want some better air-to-air representation: Recall that LNS included the Kh-66 GROM with the MiG-21bis. It could be possible that they might add the Skyflash for the purposes of gameplay.

I will love that. After all is possible to limit the loadouts on the MP games.

 

Pls don't. Keep it realistic pls!

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I will love that. After all is possible to limit the loadouts on the MP games.

 

At that point, though, you really need to ascertain whether or not it's feasible. How different are the cockpits of the AJS and the JA? It might not be.

 

At anyrate, have an advert from the '80's.

 

A magical time when automobile manufacturers didn't know what a curve was and, as a result, some of the most hideous vehicles known to man were produced.

 

[WinterH]

I know this discussion from somewhere :P

[Agremont]

I want to do short landings so bad!

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

My fav Viggen film.

[El Hadji]

At that point, though, you really need to ascertain whether or not it's feasible. How different are the cockpits of the AJS and the JA? It might not be.

 

At anyrate, have an advert from the '80's.

 

A magical time when automobile manufacturers didn't know what a curve was and, as a result, some of the most hideous vehicles known to man were produced.

 

 

Reminds me of a poster I had at my office when working for Volvo Aero: "The fastest SAAB - powered by Volvo".

[mattebubben]

Those who want some better air-to-air representation: Recall that LNS included the Kh-66 GROM with the MiG-21bis. It could be possible that they might add the Skyflash for the purposes of gameplay.

 

 

 

Well the Mig-21Bis could use the KH-66...

 

So why not include it?

 

While the AJS-37 is not able to Use Radar guided missiles...

 

I really hope and really dont think they would ever give it such a unrealistic armament option.

 

If they did that they might aswell give it sead missiles laser guided bombs and Aim-120s to it aswell since that that point it would not longer be a realistic simulation of a AJS-37.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I want to do short landings so bad!

 

 

My fav Viggen film.

 

We *REALLY* need the ability to operate from roads more readily in DCS.

 

 

Well the Mig-21Bis could use the KH-66...

 

So why not include it?

 

The 21bis couldn't. The PFM could, however.

[Dahlbeck]

If you wanna "play" JA-37, why not Amraams. However, I'd rather see a real JA-37 module in the future. :-)

[Einherjer]

Just fly escort with the mirage ;)

[mattebubben]

At that point, though, you really need to ascertain whether or not it's feasible. How different are the cockpits of the AJS and the JA? It might not be.

 

 

The AJS and JA 37s cockpits are very much different.

 

This is the AJ 37s (AJS-37) cockpit.

 

 

 

 

And this is the JA-37 cockpit.

 

 

 

 

And just for reference this is the cockpit of the JA-37D

(JA-37s Upgraded in 1997 with Aim-120 Capabillity)

 

 

 

 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

The AJS and JA 37s cockpits are very much different.

 

This is the AJ 37s (AJS-37) cockpit.

 

 

 

 

And this is the JA-37 cockpit.

 

 

 

 

And just for reference this is the cockpit of the JA-37D

(JA-37s Upgraded in 1997 with Aim-120 Capabillity)

 

 

 

 

Okay, so "physically" infeasible, in that case.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[WinterH]

Agree. Hope (but don't really expect) we will get JA Viggen too but if not, I also hope ordnance available to AJS Viggen will be kept realistic.

 

I recall months ago there was another leak of sorts, on a Swedish forum, a modeler was speaking about "our Viggens", in plural. Sooo... there may still be hopes for multiple variants or may be at least multiple models for other variants as AI assets.

 

As for the differences among AJ and JA Viggens, they really are quite substantial. Different airframe, different control surfaces (affecting flight model), different engine, different radar and systems, different cockpit. Long in short, pretty different :).

[MBot]

I think LNS doing an AI JA-37 to flesh out the theater is a real possibility.

[RaXha]

We *REALLY* need the ability to operate from roads more readily in DCS.

 

 

That bouncing Jaguar terrifies me! Using a drag chute at a war base terrifies me! Silly inferior aircraft without thrust reverser! :music_whistling:

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Agree. Hope (but don't really expect) we will get JA Viggen too but if not, I also hope ordnance available to AJS Viggen will be kept realistic.

 

I recall months ago there was another leak of sorts, on a Swedish forum, a modeler was speaking about "our Viggens", in plural. Sooo... there may still be hopes for multiple variants or may be at least multiple models for other variants as AI assets.

 

As for the differences among AJ and JA Viggens, they really are quite substantial. Different airframe, different control surfaces (affecting flight model), different engine, different radar and systems, different cockpit. Long in short, pretty different :).

 

It'd be nice to get an actual side by side external comparison between the AJ and JA.

[RaXha]

Agree. Hope (but don't really expect) we will get JA Viggen too but if not, I also hope ordnance available to AJS Viggen will be kept realistic.

 

I recall months ago there was another leak of sorts, on a Swedish forum, a modeler was speaking about "our Viggens", in plural. Sooo... there may still be hopes for multiple variants or may be at least multiple models for other variants as AI assets.

 

As for the differences among AJ and JA Viggens, they really are quite substantial. Different airframe, different control surfaces (affecting flight model), different engine, different radar and systems, different cockpit. Long in short, pretty different :).

 

They are, the JA is actually about half a foot longer than the AJ to make room for more thrust. :pilotfly:

[WinterH]

We *REALLY* need the ability to operate from roads more readily in DCS.

 

Definitely agree. We need to be able to define "expeditional runways" on suitable parts of maps, including roads. Basically, same thing as in FARPS, units that allow refueling, rearming, ATC, but this time for fixed wing aircraft too.

 

Also, I hope we'll get a Viggen-ready theater from LN, seeing Viggen taxiing into the trees in these videos feels strangely cool and want to reproduce it! :D

[Eldur]

Getting a little bit off topic, but DOSBox is something you really should try.

 

And if you want to play old Amiga games you should try WinUAE.

 

I've made the screenshots I posted in WinUAE. FA isn't a DOS game anymore, needs Win 9x :)

I've got Navy + Marine Fighters as well as ATF + Nato Fighters in my DOSBox, not to mention other goldies like the Aces series or DID's Eurofighter 2000 + Tactcom

 

That bouncing Jaguar terrifies me! Using a drag chute at a war base terrifies me! Silly inferior aircraft without thrust reverser! :music_whistling:

 

Yay, bring on Viggens and Tornados :)

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

They are, the JA is actually about half a foot longer than the AJ to make room for more thrust. :pilotfly:

 

Wouldn't happen to have a profile comparison of the two that compares and contrasts their external differences?

[mattebubben]

The 21bis couldn't. The PFM could, however.

 

My understanding is that all single seat Mig-21s After the PFM could aswell.

 

Even if most Mig-21Bis operators did not employ the Kh-66 the Mig-21 bis could use it.

 

For one there is no reason while a mig-21Bis could not use it since it alread has the pylons capable of carrying it and it has the beam mode the Kh-66 needs.

 

And second there are multiple accounts that it can use them.

 

And also for the Mig-21 PFM only the centerline Pylon was Kh-66 capable while Later Mig-21 Variants (M,SM,MF and Bis) could carry them on some of the wing pylons aswell.

 

examples of

Sources

 

http://www.mig-21.de/english/technicaldataarmament.htm

 

and for a second good old "trusted" wikipedia xD

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21_variants#Armament

 

If you can find somewhere that says definitely that later Mig-21s could not id be interested but all the info i can find points towards that they can.

[bandit648]

A fictional conflict between Sweden and Russia involving the Viggen? Well the F14 scenarios will be fictional as well. It didn't see any real conflict with Russia either. The scenarios have to be fictional. But that doesn't bother you.

 

Let me place a bet here. You won't buy the mod at first. You will watch YouTube videos over and over again and you ll see reviews praising LNS for their work and you end up buying :) that's my bet :)

 

You're right, a fictional conflict doesn't bother me. Of course most scenarios in DCS are going to be fictional. My point is that the Viggen doesn't fit in any theater of conflict outside of Northern Europe, where other jets are more versatile. Can the F-14 fly in Northern Europe cold war scenario? Yes. Straight of Hormuz? Yes. Georgia? Yes, even though it was retired during the time period it's still plausible.

 

Now, if you like the Viggen all of that doesn't matter. You would fly it anywhere because you just like the jet and want to enjoy the chance to fly it. It is possible I could end up purchasing the Viggen because I desperately want a high speed strike jet in DCS like everyone else. I own A-10C but I could never get into it. The A-10 is just so SLOW it drives be nuts.

 

Even though I'm personally disappointed in the Viggen choice by LNS I'm still happy its being developed. It just shows the variety of air frames we are getting in DCS. There's something for everyone.

 

The only thing that confounds me is the fact that no 3rd party developer has taken up development of the F-16 yet. It's probably the single best modern jet to model in a combat flight sim. Arguably the most successful multirole fighter ever built, flown by over 25 nations worldwide, the list goes on and on.

[El Hadji]

I am surprised no one has mentioned one reason as to why we might not see the JA 37. At least not a fully functioning one...

 

At the time of the J 35 Sweden introduced STRIL 60 (a combat/tactical control system) which introduced "datalänk" (data link) for sending data between aircraft. I think the J 35 was the first fighter in the world to use a system like this. With the JA 37 "jaktlänk" (fighter link) was introduced in the 1980's with the same purpose. This system has since been developed for the JAS 39 into "flygplanslänk" (aircraft link).

 

I think (not 100% sure though) that parts of the old "jaktlänk" system is still classifed since the latest system is based on it. A JA 37 would be pretty useless in-game if this wasn't simulated properly.

 

This is mostly speculation on my part but it would make sense...

[RaXha]

I am surprised no one has mentioned one reason as to why we might not see the JA 37. At least not a fully functioning one...

 

At the time of the J 35 Sweden introduced STRIL 60 (a combat/tactical control system) which introduced "datalänk" (data link) for sending data between aircraft. I think the J 35 was the first fighter in the world to use a system like this. With the JA 37 "jaktlänk" (fighter link) was introduced in the 1980's with the same purpose. This system has since been developed for the JAS 39 into "flygplanslänk" (aircraft link).

 

I think (not 100% sure though) that parts of the old "jaktlänk" system is still classifed since the latest system is based on it. A JA 37 would be pretty useless in-game if this wasn't simulated properly.

 

This is mostly speculation on my part but it would make sense...

 

I think this is the case, in Sweden you can request to have old documents declassified, but most of the case anything less than 40 years old is going to be very hard to get approved for declassification, and i'm pretty sure the information about Jaktlänk would still be classified and would hardly be approved anytime soon. :-/

 

Wouldn't happen to have a profile comparison of the two that compares and contrasts their external differences?

 

I dont unfortunately, but i do have this handy chart of the specs of each model. xD

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by RaXha

[El Hadji]

Wouldn't happen to have a profile comparison of the two that compares and contrasts their external differences?

 

Comparison JA37/AJ37

Width (wingtips): 10,6 m/10,6 m

Length: 16,4m/16,2m

Weight empty: 9500kg/9500kg

Max takeoff weight: 18600kg/20500kg

Max weapons weight: 1700kg/3600kg

Armamanent: Cannon (fixed), missiles/Cannon (pods), rockets, bombs, missiles

Engine: Volvo Flygmotor RM8B/Volvo Flygmotor RM8A

Power: 125 kN/117,6 kN

 

Source: Flygplankort 1987 (FS/Undsäk)