Low frame rate

[secret1962]

­

Edited March 12, 2018 by secret1962

[SkateZilla]

Let me clarify it once again.

My point is not against hardware evolution. I understand that and I am totally fine with it. What I am trying to point out is that I just don't see why the RAM usage just doubled (most likely even more) going from 1.2 to 1.5.

 

For the relevant on topic stuff:

I can get constant 60 FPS (up to 70-80 FPS) since I turned Shadows to FLAT and Visibility to LOW (I'd like to see if I get the same results with higher visibility... probably).

This further proves me that the RAM is the only problem there really (I was lucky flying in airfield not much populated in the VA server so I didn't experience the infamous bottlenecks of my PC :music_whistling:).

The RAM usage is between 6 gb and 7 gb and grows moderately. The game then either starts to freeze every second or just crashes.

 

-Several of Improvements in the underlying engine,

-More Scripted Functions

-More AI Functions / Improvements

-Updated UI Graphics

-64-Bit executable allowing more use of ram, (where as 32-bit executable would hit the 3.5GB Limit and stall)

-Unified executable, So all UI and Game Items are now listed under DCS, where as before w/ 1.2 Launcher.exe Process housed the UI Elements and DCS just drove the engine, and launcher.exe was closed when DCS.exe was running, now everything is under dcs.exe.

 

Take Your Pick

[secret1962]

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Edited March 12, 2018 by secret1962

[BIGNEWY]

So we have a 64 bit executable allowing more RAM to be used, so the game now reaches 7 gb and stalls my PC instead.

 

Why is your pc stalling and hundreds of other users are not? Can you attach or send me the mission in question so I can try to reproduce?

[SkateZilla]

Please post a detailed System Specs of DXDIAG Readout TXT.

 

Also Include PageFile Size/Settings.

Edited March 31, 2016 by SkateZilla

[secret1962]

­

Edited March 12, 2018 by secret1962

[SkateZilla]

Virtual Aerobatics mission. Or any mission with or without AI and all that stuff.

 

Because I have 8 GB of RAM dude.

 

Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1

Processor: Intel® Core i3-2100 CPU @ 3.10GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.1GHz

Memory: 8192MB RAM

Available OS Memory: 8174MB RAM

Page File: 4381MB used, 11965MB available

DirectX Version: DirectX 11

Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650

Display Memory: 4038 MB

Dedicated Memory: 1990 MB

Shared Memory: 2048 MB

Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)

 

 

Ok, I'll break this down for you:

1. Technically, you have 6GB Of memory.

-- This is Because you have 2 GB of your System Memory set to Share with Your GPU, Disable the Intel GPU and Disable Shared Memory.

-- Cranking up the GFX is likely causing GPU to Dip into the 2GB of Shared Memory, and this causing System and GPU to fight over that 2GB.

-- System Memory is significantly slower than GDDR5 Memory, When Dipping into Shared Pool of DDR3 You will notice a Performance Drop regardless.

-- High Object Scenes will also use Alot of the DirectX Command Buffer and fill up both Memory Pool and CPU Threads., even with 2 Hyper Threading Cores, you're gonna struggle, ESPECIALLY with SOFTWARE BASED FACE/IR TRACKING ON.

-- If DCS Runs out of System Memory at 6-7 GB, Your GPU is Likely Using The Shared Memory Pool, and Forcing DCS to Over Use the PageFile.

 

2. You Have a 2GB Entry Level Card,

-- You Should Not be pushing any type of Visibility / Distance Boundaries up from LOW;

-- Textures, MSAA, AF, Etc should also all be on low, Maybe Medium, but a 2GB Frame Buffer is already a Bottleneck at 1080p 4x MSAA w/ High Res. Textures

-- Sheer Rendering Power of your card will also have issues with High Object Scenes, and would Limit Object Details and Count to LOW.

-- If You have Hardware Accelerated Face/IR Tracking, that's also Gonna Use up some of your GPU Power/Memory.

 

3. Core i3-2100 is Also Minimum Spec.

-- 2 Cores w/ Hyper Threading, Between DCS, System Processes and Any Extra processes that rely on the GPU, you're gonna bog down your CPU, if CPU Cannot Process DirectX Draw Commands, FPS Take a Nose Dive.

-- Software Face/IR Tracking Alone will consume alot of CPU Power, Power you don't have to spare.

-- High Object Count Missions / Areas with high Object Count will also get bogged down.

 

 

So that's 3 Major Items that are at Minimum Req.

-The GPU Alone would restrict you to Putting Everything on LOW, and MAYBE a Medium Setting,-

-The RAM would Restrict your Visibility Distance and Mission Size.

-The CPU would Limit how much Extra Stuff you have Running outside DCS.

-VA Server Missions are pretty large and have been known to push the limits of most user's moderately powerful machines.

 

You're Trying to Run High Settings on a Entry Level System.

 

DX9 -> DX11, 32-Bit -> 64-Bit alone will allow DCS to Use more System Memory than Before, just by the way DX11 Operates, and removing the 3.5 GB of 32-Bit Limitation.

Edited March 31, 2016 by SkateZilla

[secret1962]

­

Edited March 12, 2018 by secret1962

[SkateZilla]

This is just going in circles.

I know I don't have a top end PC but I am definitely not trying to run high settings on an entry level system.

I can run the game at 60 FPS and more even on VA server until the game RAM usage goes over 6 gb 750 mb.

 

Thanks for the detailed break down, but nevertheless the RAM problem is still there. And technically I do have 8 GB of RAM. Shared memory is used only when necessary.

 

I don't run everything at LOW and never will. It has always worked since 1.2 and it keeps working now. As I keep saying the RAM is the problem. It doesn't matter which kind of settings I put in, the RAM keeps being the PROBLEM.

I am also not going to scale down on something that looks the same from 1.2 (and that also does not do anything to RAM usage)

 

I think you're a little understimating my hardware. Otherwise my 60 fps would not be explained.

 

Your last lines further prove my point:

8 GB RAM is not the minimum amount required. 16 GB is. I cannot play anymore on MP. That's what I got out from it. Why improve something when you can buy a better PC.

I think we can end this here since it's always me the problem eventually.

 

Have a great day.

 

You answered your own Problem,

 

FPS take a Dive when you exceed 6GB, Why Because your GPU is using that 2GB Pool of memory,

Even if the GPU is only using 1.8GB of GPU Memory During DCS Run Time,

As Soon as you Boot past your Mainboard's Boot Up sequence, that 2GB of Unused Shared System Memory is automatically Allocated and set as Video RAM by the BIOS.

 

It's Accessible to Windows, but only as VRAM.

 

The Shared Memory is your Problem, Disable it.

Edited March 31, 2016 by SkateZilla

[Vitormouraa]

You answered your own Problem,

 

FPS take a Dive when you exceed 6GB, Why Because your GPU is using that 2GB Pool of memory,

Even if the GPU is only using 1.8GB of GPU Memory During DCS Run Time,

As Soon as you Boot past your Mainboard's Boot Up sequence, that 2GB of Unused Shared System Memory is automatically Allocated and set as Video RAM by the BIOS.

 

It's Accessible to Windows, but only as VRAM.

 

The Shared Memory is your Problem, Disable it.

 

SkateZilla, do you have the 1.5.2 luas with you?

[SkateZilla]

SkateZilla, do you have the 1.5.2 luas with you?

 

I dont use them, they are posted by Mustang I believe, gonna have to search, I have no issues as I run 3 GPUs.

[Vitormouraa]

I dont use them, they are posted by Mustang I believe, gonna have to search, I have no issues as I run 3 GPUs.

 

Ops, I have it here, thank you. ;)

[Mustang]

Ops, I have it here, thank you. ;)

 

Page 4 of this thread :)

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2685487&postcount=36

[SkateZilla]

Because as EDGE Matures, Settings will be Tweaked to take advantage of newer hardware.

 

For example, what was Medium in 1.5.2, is now LOW in 1.5.3, as the Values have been increased for all presets.

[droopy114]

-Several of Improvements in the underlying engine,

-More Scripted Functions

-More AI Functions / Improvements

-Updated UI Graphics

-64-Bit executable allowing more use of ram, (where as 32-bit executable would hit the 3.5GB Limit and stall)

-Unified executable, So all UI and Game Items are now listed under DCS, where as before w/ 1.2 Launcher.exe Process housed the UI Elements and DCS just drove the engine, and launcher.exe was closed when DCS.exe was running, now everything is under dcs.exe.

 

Take Your Pick

 

You've answered about the RAM usage, thank you. more comprehensible now.

[hansangb]

It's the problem of giving hardware specs: "Your system is the culprit". "But it's the same that was running 1.5.2". "It doesn't matter, your system is the culprit. End of discussion."

 

When I was running windows for workgroup 3.11, everything was fine. Then I loaded Win 95 and everything went to crap.

 

I was running Netware 3.11 *just* fine, then loaded Netware 4 and all went to hell.

 

I was running WinXP just fine, and loaded Win7 and all hell broke loose.

 

It's the same argument and software becomes more demanding with every release.

 

I'm not arguing that there wasn't a sudden loss of frame rate. But if 16GB of memory solves the problem for some, I'd upgrade and call it a day.

[Hadwell]

What is the reason for that? I just wanted to know why you guys changed the luas.

 

[Elwood]

This is a minor issue present from 1.2 but now is going even worse.

In single player, any mission, start the game and go in controller options, it goes just fine.

But after one hour you cannot reach the same menu without waiting seconds, 8/9 seconds.

You will also loose the search by name functionality in the key/axis assignment UI.

 

The RAM ramp up from 4/5GB to more then 7GB.

 

As I wrote before I just updated system RAM from 8GB to 16GB, my 670M has 3GB dedicated and settings to LOW and FLAT shadows.

 

Intel Core i7-3610QM

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670M - 3072 MB GDDR5

RAM 16GB DDR3-12800, 1600 MHz

[Wolf Rider]

This is just going in circles.

I know I don't have a top end PC but I am definitely not trying to run high settings on an entry level system.

I can run the game at 60 FPS and more even on VA server until the game RAM usage goes over 6 gb 750 mb.

 

Thanks for the detailed break down, but nevertheless the RAM problem is still there. And technically I do have 8 GB of RAM. Shared memory is used only when necessary.

 

~

 

 

Your video card overlays ( maps ) its memory over the system RAM... so whatever size RAM your VGA is, means that amount is taken away from the full amount of system RAM. Also the motherboard reserves a certain amount (varies from mobo to mobo) for its own hardware use, further reducing the total amount of System RAM

[BitMaster]

My RAM usage for example last nights flights on 104th were roughly 8GB RAM and 16GB Swapfile usage throughout the session, stable, flying only the Ka-50.

 

Just to give others an idea of what the system does while you game.

 

Swapfile on all 4 drives activated, windows does mostly what it wants anway when it comes to swapping memory so I activated all 4.

Edited April 1, 2016 by BitMaster

[doveman]

Your video card overlays ( maps ) its memory over the system RAM... so whatever size RAM your VGA is, means that amount is taken away from the full amount of system RAM.

 

So if you had 8GB RAM and a card with 8GB VRAM, would you be unable to boot Windows?

[SkateZilla]

So if you had 8GB RAM and a card with 8GB VRAM, would you be unable to boot Windows?

 

That's not the way it works no.

[doveman]

That's not the way it works no.

So at what point does the available RAM get reduced by an amount equal to the VRAM on the card?

[SkateZilla]

It does if you use the Shared Ram Function in the BIOS, which will not let you set you entire amount of Ram as Video Ram.

 

Shared Memory is set by the BIOS in the case of using GPU's without it's own memory, ie Intel HD Graphics, AMD APU's etc.

 

The Usual Max for those is 2048MB, 1024mb 512mb, 256mb,

 

If You have 8192 MB of Ram, and You Set 2048mb as Shared Video Memory, The Memory Addresses for 6145 -> 8192mb are set by the BIOS as VRAM.

 

Windows will see 8 GB, but only 6144 will be usable by Windows for Memory operations.

 

Even if you use an PCIe GPU, as long as the IntelHD Graphics Option is Enabled in the BIOS, the BIOS will Make part of your system memory reserved for that GPU, whether you use it or not.

 

 

 

 

In the Case of a 32-Bit Environment, you have 4.0 GB Max, However that 4.0 GB Limit is used for Memory Addresses of Everything, GPU memory, HDD Cache, CPU Cache, etc.

64-Bit Limit is 1638 Million TB, Most CPU's only have 48.Bit Memory Addressing, (8 TB), Chances of Any home user having more than 8TB of Memory is Zero even in 2016.

Edited April 1, 2016 by SkateZilla

[doveman]

Ah thanks for the explanation. I've completely disabled the Intel IGP, so it isn't an issue for me.

 

I guess for anyone who needs extra outputs (e.g. for a Helios screen if they're running triple screens for DCS and don't have a spare output left on their main GPU) they'd be better off getting a cheap card for that, unless they have sufficient RAM to use the Intel IGP without it being a problem. A cheap second-hand card would probably be cheaper than an 8GB upgrade but I haven't checked current prices.