Why do so few people only do VFR flights?

[Vitormouraa]

IMHO DCS needs an improvement about dynamic weather, although it is already in the game, however, it's not enough for a flight sim, but I do love to fly in IFR conditions, by the way I was training it yesterday!

[firmek]

Lol sorry but my 19 years of continued service in using many many many day optics and camera devices with many many different nvg's devices tells me otherwise. No hack it's called field craft expertise. Go ahead and limit yourself with a false truth.

I guess with all that experience Russians made a big mistake not hiring you. They would not waste tons of time, money and resources to develop Merkury LLTV, Skhval-N with IR and the Ka-50N itself.

It would be just easy as to explain them that the visible light-spectrum devices can work during the lack of light conditions - it's just enough to turn up the brightness knob... How the Russians did missed such an obvious thing!

Go ahead and assume further that computer programs by default work like reality.

[Enduro14]

Ok we'll obviously maybe some lack of communication here. Reason I figured out it works and even tried it in game is because we have done it with somewhat similar in function systems in real life. Sorry if that goes against wiki links or anybody else's experience. But it is what it is.

Now about that weather, 4 dynamic systems with a base of 22 on turbulence is pretty good.

[firmek]

Ok we'll obviously maybe some lack of communication here. Reason I figured out it works and even tried it in game is because we have done it with somewhat similar in function systems in real life. Sorry if that goes against wiki links or anybody else's experience. But it is what it is.

Now about that weather, 4 dynamic systems with a base of 22 on turbulence is pretty good.

Sorry for being mean in my post but yours was also quite provocative. It's always better to show the experience by showing the knowledge. Thx for the explanation Enduro14.

[Enduro14]

My bad too. Watching to much news

[Xenovia]

what are you talking about, i fly VFR all the damn time, im too lazy to set up my instruments for an IFR landing.

[firmek]

Guys, would you recommend and post links to any interesting missions with IFR elements? For instance (but not only) for Mig-21.

[MikeMikeJuliet]

This thread has been an interesting read.

 

One thing that has not been mentioned though, is cloud base and cloud top. Ok, I know that is just a couple of the many many aspects we all would like to have with a better weather system, but hear me out.

 

Back where I'm at we tend to have a lot of low cloud bases, especially in fall and early winter. Now if I remember right, DCS weather editor only allows you to drop cloud base down to 300m above ground level... 300 meters?!? C'mon, that's not even IMC, it's 1000ft! ILS/equivalent approach minimums are 200 FEET, which is approximately 60 meters. Now, you can sort of cheat it by using a lot of fog, but many times the air is in fact all clear below the cloud base even if it was that low.

 

EDIT: about the cloud tops... there are times when your cloud starts from 200ft or lower, and ends up at FL350... I don't remember exactly, but I think DCS limits your cloud top to a max of around 5km... Noooot even close.

 

Couple realistic IMC conditions with dynamic weather change and you could have a scenario, where the combat zone is mostly VMC so attackers and helos have something to do, and then some airfields would be better, some worse in IMC conditions. You'd actually need to take a glance at the ol' fuel gauge and see if you have fuel for a go-around and flight to a divert airfield.

 

Another thing I'd really want are CB clouds. You could see one clearly towering amidst all other clouds and you'd know you'll have a bad time if you hit that. Then again, I bet everyone here want's that.

 

 

I've always wondered why game clouds are always so... soft and mushy... I mean. If a real cloud is made of water and not ice crystals, it many times is very, very clear cut where the cloud starts. In every single game and sim I've played, DCS included the clouds are always like a fog in the sky.

 

 

That's just what I think. Feel free to agree or disagree as you will,

MikeMikeJuliet

Edited July 6, 2016 by MikeMikeJuliet
I forgot a point earlier...

[probad]

dcs would benefit more from more detailed atmosphere simulation than it would from any one airframe, but that's a hell of a lot of work that might break things everywhere.

[cichlidfan]

dcs would benefit more from more detailed atmosphere simulation than it would from any one airframe, but that's a hell of a lot of work that might break things everywhere.

 

DCS could benefit more from a lot of things than it would from any one airframe.

[Yurgon]

One thing that has not been mentioned though, is cloud base and cloud top. [...]

 

Great post! :thumbup:

[Art-J]

Is the cloud base always set above ground level though? I ask, because on Nevada map, with airport elevations being much higher than the Caucasus ones, You can have a cloud layer down to the ground, as I noticed some time ago during a mission with some default overcast conditions - there were no clouds at Groom (1300+ m ASL) , but they appeared midway to McCarran (300+ m ASL), which eventually was covered completely.

 

Maybe this aspect works diffferent in 1.5.x and 2.0.x.

[MikeMikeJuliet]

Is the cloud base always set above ground level though? I ask, because on Nevada map, with airport elevations being much higher than the Caucasus ones, You can have a cloud layer down to the ground, as I noticed some time ago during a mission with some default overcast conditions - there were no clouds at Groom (1300+ m ASL) , but they appeared midway to McCarran (300+ m ASL), which eventually was covered completely.

 

Maybe this aspect works diffferent in 1.5.x and 2.0.x.

 

Not sure actually. It could just be that all the Caucasus airfields are on low ground. That said it would be interesting to be able to set cloud conditions individually to different areas (i.e. to different airfields). It would not yet be quite dynamic, but you could block off some airfields with bad weather if you wanted to.

[Art-J]

That is an interesting question. It seems Caucasus airports on northern side of mountain ridge are quite higher than coastal ones. Looking at the charts, MinVody for example is even higher than Nevada's McCarran. I'll test how low AGL the cloud base can be over there with current features of 1.5.4 mission editor. It would be cool indeed to be able to get the base really low, even in such a simplified manner.

[MikeMikeJuliet]

That is an interesting question. It seems Caucasus airports on northern side of mountain ridge are quite higher than coastal ones. Looking at the charts, MinVody for example is even higher than Nevada's McCarran. I'll test how low AGL the cloud base can be over there with current features of 1.5.4 mission editor. It would be cool indeed to be able to get the base really low, even in such a simplified manner.

 

Sure thing. I'm still on 1.5.3 since steam has still not updated the open beta.

 

On a sidenote. Think about a following situation: IMC and your wingman loses some navigation instruments. You need to get him sorted on top of cloud and then escort him, in close formation (!) all the way to an ILS and land with him.

 

I'm not sure which would be the more stressful seat, yours or your wingmans :D

 

If anyone is in for a try... ;)

[grunf]

Cloud base is ASL, so you can have some airports on the east and southeast totally under cloud cover.

 

I was toying a bit with dynamic weather, and got some nice results after fiddling around with it. Some areas had clear sunny weather, some were under heavy rain, with strong wind. Not sure how I did it though. :D

[MikeMikeJuliet]

It seems like the weather system needs first and foremost a more clear cut UI especially for the dynamic weather, and a lot more options and a greater range of values to use...

 

Btw, is it just me, or does it seem to you guys that increasing the amount of cloud does nothing in the mid ranges... it's either clear sky, partly cloudy or full overcast... seems like the amount of clouds in "partly cloudy" is always the same no matter what... I mean, in meteorology you have no clouds, isolated, few, scattered, broken and overcast... and the sky is broken into octals... so overcast would be 8/8 where as no clouds are 0/8...

 

It would be nice if these options would reflect real life as well.

[CoBlue]

Guys, would you recommend and post links to any interesting missions with IFR elements? For instance (but not only) for Mig-21.

Here you go, all IMC :)

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1459614/

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1459727/

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1459725/

[firmek]

Thanks Rodd, I'll check them out today evening.

[Frederf]

It seems like the weather system needs first and foremost a more clear cut UI especially for the dynamic weather, and a lot more options and a greater range of values to use...

 

Btw, is it just me, or does it seem to you guys that increasing the amount of cloud does nothing in the mid ranges... it's either clear sky, partly cloudy or full overcast... seems like the amount of clouds in "partly cloudy" is always the same no matter what... I mean, in meteorology you have no clouds, isolated, few, scattered, broken and overcast... and the sky is broken into octals... so overcast would be 8/8 where as no clouds are 0/8...

 

It would be nice if these options would reflect real life as well.

 

The dynamic weather system in DCS is beautiful. However the UI and creation pipeline is unpleasant to use.

 

1. The position of the pressure centers needs to be editable in-editor, preferably via mouse dragging including positions well outside the map boundaries. You can text edit the miz for this but it's a pain.

 

2. More weather symbols on the weather map to give feedback to cloud coverage and precipitation. Most mission authors are looking for a certain weather feel and better 2D or even 3D feedback would be appreciated. Perhaps an additional slider for humidity bias would help creating wet weather which is darn difficult to do now.

 

3. Minor but the default pressure deltas for generated weather is slightly too much. It would be nice if these would be slider adjustments and not text box only which is slower and encourages round numbers too much.

[grunf]

The dynamic weather system in DCS is beautiful. However the UI and creation pipeline is unpleasant to use.

 

1. The position of the pressure centers needs to be editable in-editor, preferably via mouse dragging including positions well outside the map boundaries. You can text edit the miz for this but it's a pain.

 

2. More weather symbols on the weather map to give feedback to cloud coverage and precipitation. Most mission authors are looking for a certain weather feel and better 2D or even 3D feedback would be appreciated. Perhaps an additional slider for humidity bias would help creating wet weather which is darn difficult to do now.

 

3. Minor but the default pressure deltas for generated weather is slightly too much. It would be nice if these would be slider adjustments and not text box only which is slower and encourages round numbers too much.

Couldn't agree more, especially on your first point.

[Pitot]

That no1 was the thing that confused me into saying you can't change the number of systems few days ago here. No1 is what we desperately need.

[BSS_Sniper]

The last thing I want to do is fly IFR in something that I want to have fun in and make it feel like I'm at work. Also, if the weather is bad IRL, you won't have an air support so why do it here? This is from my real life experience. IMO IFR needs to be left to someone that wants to fly approaches on FSX.

[Art-J]

Meh, going by this logic, why bother modelling any nav systems or even ADI, as You don't need them in VFR flights all that much.

 

Your life experience affects Your perception, and that's OK, but some of us do want some of that challenge, cause for them, that's the definition of "fun" in the sim. And still a few times cheaper than FSX/P3D :D.

[Yurgon]

Also, if the weather is bad IRL, you won't have an air support so why do it here? This is from my real life experience. IMO IFR needs to be left to someone that wants to fly approaches on FSX.

 

I don't have any RL experience in this regard, but according to quite a few books I read, "bad weather", however that is defined, doesn't prevent air assets from taking off and doing the best they can to do their job and support the troops on the ground, including the very situation described here a few posts ago where the airfield might be covered in bad weather while the AO might be relatively clear.

 

Just now I'm reading "Flying the F-15E in the Gulf War" and the point is made numerous times that refueling at night in bad weather was almost as dangerous as crossing the border into Iraq and attacking targets that were heavily defended by anti-air assets.

 

Of course everyone is free to choose their preferred environment in DCS. Personally, I think being able to fly in bad weather and low visibility makes me a better sim pilot and also helps me learn, and appreciate, many of those systems that are hardly ever needed when flying VFR in a well known area. But each to their own.