Little_D Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Hi gents, i still have this damn problem with the 109. After take off, flapps in, gear in, trim nose down at max, ATA 1.2 by 2000 rpm and speed 250km/H, when i center my x52 the 109 starts climbing like hell into a looping. I fly with no curves on the controls. My squadmades dont have the problem, there 109`s take the nose a little bit down and rolle to the left a little bit, thats all both have also trim nose down to max. In the 190 i dont have the problem, after take off, flaps in, gear in, trimm to zero position, the 190 take the nose a little bit down and roll to the left a little bit when i center my x52. With the 109 behavior i have in the moment no clean control in the speedrange from 220Km/H - 350 Km/H as she will allways starts climbing like hell. When i reach 380Km/H - 400Km/H all is fine and she behaves like she should. I reinstall and repair DCS, but nothing change. Can somebody help me, please? regards Little_D 1./JG2_Little_D Staffelkapitän 1./Jagdgeschwader 2 "Richthofen" "Go for the leader, if you can. The path is the goal, the kill the result." "The one who has 12, leads. The one who has six, follows." YouTube Channel: 1./JG2 Filmkanal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razo+r Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Hello Sometimes i have it too, sometimes i don't, but i don't know how to do it without. it's not that your system is broken, i think that has more to do with the take-off procedure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_D Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 Hi Razo+r, thx for the info, so its a known bug or problem? I did also some tests, it doesent matter if i take off with flaps or without, i have it all the time, even after 20 minutes of flight, when i go into a trurnfight as soonest i come into the speedrange of 220 Km/H - 350 KM/H i get this fu.... nose up looping climb, trim is alltime nose down to max, as the 109 is non flyable for me without trim max down. If this is the real behavior, than they should killed the constructor of the Bf109K-4 regards Little_D 1./JG2_Little_D Staffelkapitän 1./Jagdgeschwader 2 "Richthofen" "Go for the leader, if you can. The path is the goal, the kill the result." "The one who has 12, leads. The one who has six, follows." YouTube Channel: 1./JG2 Filmkanal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkRaiderss Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Do you have 100% fuel? The makes the plane tail heavy and will cause the nose to rise even with full nose down trim. The effect will go away with a bit less fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_D Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 Hi Darkraiderss, yes my boys and me fly allways with 100% fuel, but fuel is not the problem, as i wrote, that my squadmambers dont have this problem, even with 100% fuel. regards Little_D 1./JG2_Little_D Staffelkapitän 1./Jagdgeschwader 2 "Richthofen" "Go for the leader, if you can. The path is the goal, the kill the result." "The one who has 12, leads. The one who has six, follows." YouTube Channel: 1./JG2 Filmkanal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkRaiderss Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I don't have the issue then and I fly the 109 several times a week. Only if I take off with 100%. I usually fly with 70-90%. Based on your power settings it shouldn't nose up the way you describe, maybe a little but not drastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingme Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 How is your pitch axis configured? Specs: Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080 Settings:2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWC_SLAG Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Interestingly enough, I have the same problem with the Spitfire. Could there be a common solution? TWC_SLAG Win 10 64 bit, 2T Hard Drive, 1T SSD, 500GB SSD, ASUS Prime Z390 MB, Intel i9 9900 Coffee Lake 3.1mhz CPU, ASUS 2070 Super GPU, 32gb DDR4 Ram, Track IR5, 32” Gigabyte curved monitor, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pedals, Voice Attack, hp Reverb G2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saburo_cz Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Interestingly enough, I have the same problem with the Spitfire. Could there be a common solution? Do you change PITCH trim setting to neutral before take-off or do not? Spitfire has preset trim to TAIL HEAVY when spawns. F6F P-51D | P-47D | Mosquito FB Mk VI | Spitfire | Fw 190D | Fw 190A | Bf 109K | WWII Assets Pack Normandy 2 | The Channel | Sinai | Syria | PG | NTTR | South Atlantic F-4E | F-14A/B | F-15E | F/A-18 | F-86 | F-16C | A-10C | FC-3 | CA | SC | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_D Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 Hi gents, my pitch axis is defoult ingame, no curves, no limits in x or y axis sensetive, i have only set the deathzone to 2. Also in the controll check of my x52 the pitch and all other axis are centert and ok, they move as they should and go back to neutral as they should. Before i take off i trimm to max tail havy, than back to zero and than full trimm nose down and back to neutral to check the trimm. After that i trimm as i wrote to max nose havy and let it there, as i cant fly the 109 without max nose trimm. Also when i check all axis ingame in the settings they move as they should. On the other side, the FW190 i take off and fly with trimm at zero all the time and the FW190 is at all speeds easy to fly and handle, no crazy nose up and looping climb and i fly here also only with 100% fuel. regards Little_D 1./JG2_Little_D Staffelkapitän 1./Jagdgeschwader 2 "Richthofen" "Go for the leader, if you can. The path is the goal, the kill the result." "The one who has 12, leads. The one who has six, follows." YouTube Channel: 1./JG2 Filmkanal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art-J Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 DCS 109 is known for requirement of nose-down trim for level flight at cruise speeds and a bit of stick push for high speeds, but... full nose-down trim at 250 km/h doesn't sound right, and never happened before, unless something got glitched in 1.5.6 and 2.0.5 versions (I haven't flown that plane in either of these two)? i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAD-MM Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Don't think you have different 109 then all other, the Pitch up tendendy for the 109 below 300-250 Km/h is here as it should be. But Flying below 250 Km/h have at all only negativ aspects, the 109 starts to pull up to slip and drop the wing the constant turn speed is also heavy affected. I Fly with no curves and death zones at all, have constant trim from zero to +1 to increase the pull up moment of the Ruder at high speeds. Take off with +1 and set the Flaps to second Mark, the Flaps shift the COG foward for gently take off. But you have also to get used push the Stick foward to contary the nose pitch up when you get to slow. Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 9./JG27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_D Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) DCS 109 is known for requirement of nose-down trim for level flight at cruise speeds and a bit of stick push for high speeds, but... full nose-down trim at 250 km/h doesn't sound right, and never happened before, unless something got glitched in 1.5.6 and 2.0.5 versions (I haven't flown that plane in either of these two)? Hi Art-J, you are right and it is also known from me, but as you said at this low speeds it is not right. i have to fly with trimm set to 2 nose down, so full trimm nose down. The funny thing is, at speeds about 380Km/H - up to max speed, she flys like i know here from all other WW2 sims, nice and easy. Also i find here more maneuverable than all other 109 from all sims i flown at high speeds, pitch at about 750Km/H is as easy to handle as at 400 Km/H, i can pull here easy out of a steep dive at 750Km/H without need to tuch the trimm and hold here nice and soft close to blackout. I have this problem since i bought here. Don't think you have different 109 then all other, the Pitch up tendendy for the 109 below 300-250 Km/h is here as it should be. But Flying below 250 Km/h have at all only negativ aspects, the 109 starts to pull up to slip and drop the wing the constant turn speed is also heavy affected. I Fly with no curves and death zones at all, have constant trim from zero to +1 to increase the pull up moment of the Ruder at high speeds. Take off with +1 and set the Flaps to second Mark, the Flaps shift the COG foward for gently take off. But you have also to get used push the Stick foward to contary the nose pitch up when you get to slow. Hi MAD-MM, sorry to sai this, but i dont think you get my problem. How you can sai i should use trimm +1, when i have with trimm set to +2 at speeds from 220 Km/H - 350 Km/H the problem, that the 109 is climbing into a looping, when i center the stick!!! I have no problem that the K-4 is tail havy, she should be like this, but for high speeds from 400 Km/H up to max speed, not for start ore landing speeds, makes no sence at all. I would understand this behavior also if i would take of with max power and MW50 on, that the 109 would climb at 220Km/H into the sky, but not with cruise settings. Also i did a test to start without flaps, after weels up with a speed from 180 Km/H and weels in at 200 Km/H with ATA 1.2 and rpm 2000 i have to pull the stick forward to fly straight or make a shallow climb. when i center the stick after take of over the runway at 210 Km/H she goes with 20 degrees+ into a steep climb. When i reduce to rpm`s about 1700, than i get the behavior my squadmembers have and what is logical for me, when they center the stick after weels in, flaps in, at ATA 1.2 by 2000 rpm`s at 220Km/H. there 109`s take a little bit the nose down and roll to the left. When they dont tuch the stick she went in a low left hand easy nose down turn and they have also the trimm set to +2. Also i testet my older x52 from my son, i still have the same problems. Also my squadmabers that take off with me in formation and watch the behavior of my 109 are saying, that someting is not right here, when they see me climbing like hell into the sky, that they need to pull the stick hard back to follow me and i have my stick centert. Sometimes i have the feeling, that the trimm is not working right, even when ingame in the cockpit it shows the right numbers. Doesent matters, if i use buttons or the weel from the x52 throttle. Complet reinstall and repair of DCS is allready done 2 times, no changes. regards Little_D Edited February 9, 2017 by Little_D 1./JG2_Little_D Staffelkapitän 1./Jagdgeschwader 2 "Richthofen" "Go for the leader, if you can. The path is the goal, the kill the result." "The one who has 12, leads. The one who has six, follows." YouTube Channel: 1./JG2 Filmkanal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jafferson Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Move in to options axis tune, turn on slider and set the curvature to +1 This have the effect to push the virtual stick all the time a bit forward. So easy is that :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_D Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 Move in to options axis tune, turn on slider and set the curvature to +1 This have the effect to push the virtual stick all the time a bit forward. So easy is that :thumbup: Hi Jafferson, you are my hero :thumbup:!!! It works perfect. Only 2 test take offs needed to feel and see the difference. Can you explain me why it works with setting to slider, but not as normal joystick in 109 with 2 different sticks from the same company and on the 190 the normal joystick works perfect? Or is it a DCS miracle? regards Little_D 1./JG2_Little_D Staffelkapitän 1./Jagdgeschwader 2 "Richthofen" "Go for the leader, if you can. The path is the goal, the kill the result." "The one who has 12, leads. The one who has six, follows." YouTube Channel: 1./JG2 Filmkanal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9.JG27 DavidRed Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 with that setting you are switching your neutral point of the stick...so while you have it in center, the pilot is slightly pushing it. no magic, just a curve, which always leads to other drawbacks. but if you are happy i guess thats good then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyforDCS Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Maybe this is a stupid question, did you try CTRL + ENTER in the game to check how your axis behaves in the game and where your virtual stick is positioned? Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingme Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 FFB joystick will really help.. I quit using the X55 as soon as I got a Sidewinder FFB2. I recommend you do the same. I have another one for spare.. :) Specs: Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080 Settings:2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_D Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Maybe this is a stupid question, did you try CTRL + ENTER in the game to check how your axis behaves in the game and where your virtual stick is positioned? Hi OnlyforDCS, yes i did and the funny thing is, when the stick is centert it shows it also centert in the window, same goes for the trimm, rudder and ailerons. But i still get this crazy nose up looping climb. It works only with slider and there it shows the stick in pitch a little bit forward and than it works, i will ask my squadmades how there window look when the take off and come in the "bad" speedrange. regards Little_D 1./JG2_Little_D Staffelkapitän 1./Jagdgeschwader 2 "Richthofen" "Go for the leader, if you can. The path is the goal, the kill the result." "The one who has 12, leads. The one who has six, follows." YouTube Channel: 1./JG2 Filmkanal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted February 13, 2017 ED Team Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) I can fly hands free with trim +1, little bit less without full fuel and ammo and such. Seems to be fine with me, only time its a little crazy is air starts before you get it tweaked to where you need it. Edited February 13, 2017 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I can fly hands free with trim +1, little bit less without full fuel and ammo and such. Seems to be fine with me, only time its a little crazy is air starts before you get it tweaked to where you need it. Is that with the MW50 tank empty too? Just curious if the whole pitch up issue has just been badly explained, so people are using it by default in an unstable configuration. For example the P-51D is right nightmare to fly if you brim it and use the rear tank, but there's a dedicated section in the manual about it. Wonder if the K-4 just needs a couple of CoG diagrams and explanations... Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted February 14, 2017 ED Team Share Posted February 14, 2017 I did two tests, one full load, 50% fuel, no ammo and no MW50. Trim was slightly different for each, like either side of +1. but hands free is possible in pitch axis. Remember as well, its not ideal to trim level anyways, the 109 performs better in high speed dives with the slight nose up attitude. Honestly I dont even notice it anymore. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCuvier Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) Slider for stabilizer trim: only 70% of range used On a related note, I use the slider on my TM Warthog throttle to set the stabilizer trim. This makes sense to me as the true aircraft uses something similar in the form of a wheel, and it works much better for me than a toggle switch. However, the Bf-109 module only uses about 70% of the slider range. In other words, I reach max. nose-heavy trim when the slider is only about 70% forward. So when I set the slider to its center position the trim is already fairly tail-heavy. In my opinion this is not how the axis control should work. It should use the full range of the slider to go from max. tail-heavy to max. nose-heavy. I believe that it worked that way before version 1.5. In my opinion this is a bug. Note: I have not set any curvature, deadband or custom curve Edit: I hoped I could tweak it in the clickabledata.lua but that doesn't even contain an axis control (element of type default_axis or similar) for the trimwheel. Strange! Edited February 17, 2017 by LeCuvier LeCuvier Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Yes it's true, the same here. The max forward is 70% in my axis. I used a Saitek Throttle Quadrant for the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCuvier Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Yes it's true, the same here. The max forward is 70% in my axis. I used a Saitek Throttle Quadrant for the test. Yes, same result with the left throttle of my TM WH. The issue is clearly caused by rhe Bf-109 implementation. LeCuvier Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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