DCS Vietnam by Leatherneck Sims?

[The_Pharoah]

LNS, would you guys ever consider just focusing on one scenario like say Vietnam? DCS as it is is just a random collection of a/c on maps that don't necessarily make sense.

 

What about if LNS embarked on a 'we are focusing on Vietnam' plan? eg.

 

1. Vietnam map (covering potentially North/South Vietnam, Laos, eastern Thailand?) and the gulf

2. Vietnam era a/c - A6, F4, F105, Mig 17, Mig 19, Mig 21 (you already have the 21 as a base)

 

just for starters....

[cthulhu68]

LNS has mentioned working on maps. I wouldn't be surprised if Vietnam is one of them.

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Razbam already have the MiG19 on the road map and in development and A6 down the road.

 

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[Sulaco]

I would love a Leatherneck F4, the LNS cockpits are second to none, an F4 done by them would be too good. If it rolled out with a Vietnam map I imagine the community would lose it's mind.

[SirBunker]

Mig-21bis did not serve in Vietnam, I don't see LNS having a particular reason to create a Vietnam map considering their announced projects either.

 

They do have two released planes for a what-if cold war scenario on the Baltic Sea though.

[some1]

Mig-21bis did not serve in Vietnam, I don't see LNS having a particular reason to create a Vietnam map considering their announced projects either.

 

Exactly. Making a period correct MiG-21 would be almost like making another airplane. Actually, the bis version we have right now puts us further away from realistic Vietnam scenario, as I doubt any developer will spend time developing another MiG-21 in the near future.

[WinterH]

Sigh... Leatherneck has done/doing ZERO Vietnam era birds so far, and their next planned aircraft is F4U Corsair, and they had shown signs that they will realize a Pacific theater slowly.

 

Razbam intents to make MiG-19 yes, but A-6 and A-7 they will make are very much post Vietnam, and that is good as more 70s and 80s or 90s scenarios are becoming a possibility. Post Vietnam versions fit nicely to this.

 

If someone makes an F-4 and its not a late 70s or even 80s version, it would be a shame.

 

I find it interesting people scream about DCS needing focus, but then turn around and ask for Vietnam. Basically, an aircraft from Vietnam era would be an "orphan module" as people like to call it.

 

I am happy that so far LN has created niche and interesting aircraft. MiG-21Bis and AJS 37 has been two aircraft I always wanted. While I am not that interested in Tomcat, it is an obvious superstar for a great many people, so is the Corsair.

 

I hope Leatherneck and other devs will keep creating interesting modules from all eras and all parts of the world, rather than caving into such requests of "do exclusively what is important (as in what personally like)!".

 

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[QuiGon]

LNS has mentioned working on maps. I wouldn't be surprised if Vietnam is one of them.

what? :huh:

 

How the hell did you come up with that conclusion? As WinterH has pointed out very well, LNS has nothing to do with Vietnam. They are working on maps, one of them already known to be Iwo Jima and another one will almost certainly be focused on Sweden. No Vietnam in sight, at least not from LNS.

Edited February 23, 2017 by QuiGon

[StandingCow]

Vietnam era is where I wish the main DCS focus was. A vietnam map would be amazing, and not only the map but some more planes/helos from that era.

[Coxy_99]

I think Normandy is far more important for the ww2 units they really dont fit well in the current map, I would not mind seeing a Vietnam map after tho for sure whos making it who knows? I thought LNS already had a couple of maps already planned? Vietnam is not one of them, I thought a Pacific map and one for the F-14?

[QuiGon]

I think Normandy is far more important for the ww2 units they really dont fit well in the current map, I would not mind seeing a Vietnam map after tho for sure whos making it who knows? I thought LNS already had a couple of maps already planned? Vietnam is not one of them, I thought a Pacific map and one for the F-14?

 

Yes, as I said 2 comments above ;)

[addde]

Sigh... Leatherneck has done/doing ZERO Vietnam era birds so far, and their next planned aircraft is F4U Corsair, and they had shown signs that they will realize a Pacific theater slowly.

 

Razbam intents to make MiG-19 yes, but A-6 and A-7 they will make are very much post Vietnam, and that is good as more 70s and 80s or 90s scenarios are becoming a possibility. Post Vietnam versions fit nicely to this.

 

If someone makes an F-4 and its not a late 70s or even 80s version, it would be a shame.

 

I find it interesting people scream about DCS needing focus, but then turn around and ask for Vietnam. Basically, an aircraft from Vietnam era would be an "orphan module" as people like to call it.

 

I am happy that so far LN has created niche and interesting aircraft. MiG-21Bis and AJS 37 has been two aircraft I always wanted. While I am not that interested in Tomcat, it is an obvious superstar for a great many people, so is the Corsair.

 

I hope Leatherneck and other devs will keep creating interesting modules from all eras and all parts of the world, rather than caving into such requests of "do exclusively what is important (as in what personally like)!".

 

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The F14 was deployed in Vietnam at the very end altho it didnt see any combat :)

[NeilWillis]

The Vietnam era is a thing definitely, but why Leatherneck in particular?

 

It would ideally be released as a package with something like an Phantom (well we can hope), so whoever has the resources, and a suitable project regardless of which team that might be.

 

Hopefully once 2.5 is established as the platform going forwards, we ought to see new maps following in it's wake.

 

Would we all be happy to pay more for airframes with a packaged map? I know I would.

 

It does however bring up a thorny issue for multiplayer server providers. These maps will prove to be expensive to host in the medium and long term, so some concessions for server use might be well worth considering too?

[cthulhu68]

No Vietnam in sight, at least not from LNS.

Didn't know Iwo Jima was probably or certainly a map they are working on. I guess are only hope is if Belsimtek is silently working on a Vietnam map.:(

[NeilWillis]

I understand no one is currently working on maps outside ED. Until ED have released 2.5, there wouldn't be much point. I believe they are all still waiting for the developers tools, which will not be finalized until after 2.5 has been fully implemented?

[Silver_Dragon]

The actual Theatre status:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116893

 

ED:

NTTR release with 1st expansion (hope to 2nd expansion with NTC)

Normandy on progress

Caucasus T4 conversion on progress

Straight of Hormuz on progress

4th Theatre (unknown) on progress

 

Leatherneck

AJS-37 Theatre planned (Baltic / Sweden)

F-14A Theatre planed (oceanic)

F8-U Iwo Jima planned

 

VEAO

Duxford (test map) on hold

Mach Loop – Welsh Valleys on hold

North Africa – Tobruk on hold

 

None Vetnam / Korea, etc confirmed.

[WinterH]

The F14 was deployed in Vietnam at the very end altho it didnt see any combat :)

 

Not exactly. Technically yes, the F-14 itself did get deployed at the closing scenes and didn't see combat.

 

Problem is, this was in like 1975 or so. Leatherneck stated that they will do a mid 80s F-14A and mid 90s F-14B, so their earliest version will be a decaded younger than Vietnam birds, and would have a decades worth of improvements.

 

Even then, if we had the earliest Tomcat available too, their involvement in Vietnam War was barely a footnote.

[addde]

Not exactly. Technically yes, the F-14 itself did get deployed at the closing scenes and didn't see combat.

 

Problem is, this was in like 1975 or so. Leatherneck stated that they will do a mid 80s F-14A and mid 90s F-14B, so their earliest version will be a decaded younger than Vietnam birds, and would have a decades worth of improvements.

 

Even then, if we had the earliest Tomcat available too, their involvement in Vietnam War was barely a footnote.

 

All true but come on, what upgrades did the f14a recieve between 1974 and 1985? Basically none (feel free to correct me because i am not 100% sure on the upgrade program of the early f14). Apart from the removal of the glove vains and the crappy IRST some had in the beginning.

[QuiGon]

I understand no one is currently working on maps outside ED. Until ED have released 2.5, there wouldn't be much point. I believe they are all still waiting for the developers tools, which will not be finalized until after 2.5 has been fully implemented?

 

AFAIK LNS has a team dedicated to map creation in Poland, but I don't know what their current status is.

[Kev2go]

tbh it doesnt matter if we dont have the exact iddity bitty variants. Mig21Bis is close enough to the Vietnam war in terms of year ( and even performance), at least for late nam circa 1972 Operation Linebacker.

 

taking into considering that in 1972 the North Vietnamese did receive & operate the Mig21MF ( all pilots of the 921st squadron)

 

There really isnt much difference between the MF and the Bis except, that the bis has a slightly higher fuel capacity, and a more powerfull R300 tumansky engine. The MF still uses the same RP22 saphir radar, and the Spo 10 RWR. it has same amount of hardpoints and still could use all the same ordinance the BIS could.

 

Similiarily there is not much difference between the early 70s F4E phantom ( wing slatted) with a late 70s version except for a newer RWR ( IP1310/ALR i believe) and newer added ECM flare/chaff dispenser suite. There is no exact information on which varaints the A6 being made.. with the A7 they just said they were aiming for eiter a D (USAF) and/or E ( US navy) versions, which did actually see use in late part of the Vietnam war, and did take part in Operation Linebacker

 

Also to note we do have the F5E tiger 2. South vietnam got the F5A's but again was also one of the first customers of the F-5E. Granted this would have been the F5E-1 without a RWR, and a with the weaker An/APQ 153 radar, but, meh, close enough.

 

So We are not that far away from Vietnam in terms of aircraft as some would like others to believe.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Kev2go

[Brigg]

Iwo Jima is their next map if remember correctly

[QuiGon]

Iwo Jima is their next map if remember correctly

 

It's the only one we know about, but that doesn't mean it's next. I would think the Viggen map would be first, because the Viggen has already been released while the F4U Corsair from the pacific stuff is still in development.

[BlackLion213]

It's the only one we know about, but that doesn't mean it's next. I would think the Viggen map would be first, because the Viggen has already been released while the F4U Corsair from the pacific stuff is still in development.

 

That would make sense. However, Cobra did say that the Viggen will have a campaign in the Caucasus with a mini-campaign in NTTR. It would seem that they don't expect their Viggen map out soon, though they did confirm on the Hoggit AMA that a Viggen map is still in progress.

 

Iwo Jima would be a much smaller and simpler map than anything in the Baltic (very small land area, very few buildings, etc). But they were waiting on some sort of new terrain tech and the status of that is unknown.

 

Or they could decide to prioritize the F-14 map given the expected popularity of the module and potential for high sales of associated content. Though the F-14 also has an excellent potential map in the Strait of Hormuz with real operations having occurred there for the F-14A and several Forrestal class carriers. There are definite realistic options for the F-14B as well.

 

So in the end....any of them could be chosen as their first map. I'm still betting on Iwo Jima though, just because it would be a straightforward-ish (I think...) first map.

 

I hoping for an update on their future map plans at some point, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

-Nick

[BlackLion213]

All true but come on, what upgrades did the f14a recieve between 1974 and 1985? Basically none (feel free to correct me because i am not 100% sure on the upgrade program of the early f14). Apart from the removal of the glove vains and the crappy IRST some had in the beginning.

 

Not many significant changes, but there were some.

 

Also, the glove vanes were never removed, but were progressively deactivated over time. This started with the decision to deactivate glove vanes that were acting up instead of fixing them (capping the hydraulic lines and relying on the mass of the vane to hold it in place). This decision was made individually per squadron starting in the early-mid 80s. Many squadrons had a mix of aircraft with or without functioning vanes. In the early 1990s, the Navy decided to formally deactivate the vanes and wire them in the closed position. Eventually they would be welded (late-90s I believe). The F-14A+/B and F-14D never had glove vanes.

 

The engines were replaced, changed from the TF30-P-412 to 414 and eventually the 414A. The 414/414A had many small changes to address the "thump-bang" events of the first cruise and operations during 74-75. These "thump-bangs" were not the usual TF30 compressor stalls, but catastrophic failures of the turbine that were resulting in loss of aircraft (3 in just a few days in early 1975 IIRC). In fact, the whole Tomcat fleet was grounded for a week while a solution was found and USS Enterprise was leaning on their A-7E armed with AIM-9Ls for perform CAP duties! Luckily, this was a unique event.

 

The TF30 upgrades involved a modest redesign of the compressor to improve durability and help stall margin, the addition of the mid-compression bypass system, and addition of a protective engine shroud. The mid-compression bypass system ports the 7th stage of the compressor under certain specified conditions to stabilize airflow and improve stall margin. Some of these conditions include: zone 5 with landing gear down, AOA >16 units, deploying the refueling probe, firing the cannon, >10 deg rudder input, etc. The AOA threshold decreases as speed increases and stabilizes at 11 units AOA from Mach 0.9-2.1.

 

In addition to the engine upgrades, additions included: automatic maneuvering slats/flaps, the TCS system was installed in the early-mid 80s, gunvents were changed, HUD camera, engine stall detection and warning system, a series of small software changes, and some modest changes to the aileron-rudder interconnect.

 

Certainly the mid-80s F-14A would function differently than the mid-70s version, but suspension of disbelief can be a powerful tool for gameplay purposes (I mean that in a good way :)).

 

-Nick

Edited February 24, 2017 by BlackLion213

[al531246]

I would love a Leatherneck F4, the LNS cockpits are second to none, an F4 done by them would be too good. If it rolled out with a Vietnam map I imagine the community would lose it's mind.

 

Truer words were never spoken.