F-105 Thunderchief

[Koty]

The 21MF had radar with similar range, but lower power - could not use R-3R's - but it could run continously, without worries about overheating it. The cockpit was a bit different from bis, but similar in concept. Past 1975, the Gorkiy plant was basically copying the 21bis cockpit, just few lights and switches were dummies (emergency reheat, mainly). The fuel system was different. Past 1975, it was basically a copy, just with different tank sizes (less fuel, but also less thirsty engine than bis.), prior to 1975, you'd find differences in tank layout, fuel-pumps etc.

 

Other than that, the capabilities of MF were similar to bis. Even to the extent of "75" variant having the radio equipment of bis.

 

MF could carry the same bombs as bis, the same IR missiles as bis (except for R-55) - even the R-60 could be carried after some simple field modifications. It could even carry the jamming pod. It could also carry both RS-2us and Kh-66 and all kinds of unguided rockets.

 

It would be fairly easy to convert current bis to the late MF as a user mod. The late variant did not however see combat in Vietnam, but would be functionaly and performance-wise identical to the old MF.

 

 

 

As for MiG-21PF and PFM, PF could not carry the centerline gunpod. This confusion might come from two variants of PFM being fielded, one with forward opening canopy (same as PF) and one with sideways opening canopy. Simple way to recognize them is the tail ;) (However, the forward-opening PF looks identical to Indian 21FL, that one had poor-man's radar incapable of using beam-riders.) Also, it could not use "radar homing missiles" - just beamriders. Actual radar homing came with MiG-21S and RP-22 radar (MiG-21M, MA and MF had RP-21 variant).

Edited May 21, 2017 by Koty

[Basher54321]

According to the books I have, they had to remove one gun and reduce the clip size for the second gun to fit the systems needed for launching K-13 (R-3) missiles. But those are English books, maybe they got it wrong.

 

The declass US exploitation listed 60 rounds for the MiG-21F-13 - I will raise you 60 round magazine capacity for the single gun with typical loadout of 30 rounds. :)

[foxbat155]

According to the books I have, they had to remove one gun and reduce the clip size for the second gun to fit the systems needed for launching K-13 (R-3) missiles. But those are English books, maybe they got it wrong.

 

60 rounds per canon ( so total: F 120 rounds, F-13 60 rounds ). R-3 launch boxes were mounted in place of deleted right canon, but left canon stayed with his full round capacity.

[Basher54321]

Most of the Vietnam Air Force Fishbeds were MiG-21 PF and PFM. Those had RP-21 radar (completely different than RP-22 we have in bis). Only two missile pylons, no internal gun. Capable of carrying radar homing missiles, and GSh-23 gun in centerline gunpod.

 

 

To add to what was stated re the PF - I have yet to see anything regarding the VPAF ever acquiring or using the GP-9 gun pod on their PFMs before 1973.

[iLOVEwindmills]

Well, we have A-10A and A-10C, Su-25 and Su-25T, F-15C and planned F-15E and so on. Though DCS lacks so many Vietnam era assets that making any Vietnam-like scenario would require an effort comparable to Normandy '44 project.

 

 

 

According to the books I have, they had to remove one gun and reduce the clip size for the second gun to fit the systems needed for launching K-13 (R-3) missiles. But those are English books, maybe they got it wrong.

 

 

Sure, though these are FC3 planes. I strongly doubt any dev is going to invest time, money and long term support to make a module that is a straight downgrade from an already existing plane. There's no way they'll make money back on that. Especially when this same time can be used to make a novel plane.

[Robert31178]

Um, didn't they do that with the Eagle though? Added an AFM?

[Kev2go]

MiG-19P was not used in Vietnam.

MiG-21bis was not used in Vietnam.

 

They are completely different from variants used there.

 

true ,

 

however Razbam did say that they are considering the possibility of including the Mig19S as a second version, and the whilst the Soviet made 19S was not used in nam either, the direct Chinese

license built mass produced copy of the Mig19S, the Shengyang J6 was. so that is pretty close.

[asla36]

true ,

 

however Razbam did say that they are considering the possibility of including the Mig19S as a second version, and the whilst the Soviet made 19S was not used in nam either, the direct Chinese

license built mass produced copy of the Mig19S, the Shengyang J6 was. so that is pretty close.

That's a pleasant surprise!

[Koty]

license built mass produced copy of the Mig19S, the Shengyang J6 was. so that is pretty close.

 

The one used in Nam should still be identical, bar the production quality, which had effect basically just in maintenance.

[streakeagle]

The MiG-21bis has a better radar and a bit more thrust, but isn't that much different from the MiG-21MF that did serve in Vietnam 1972. If provided with period correct missiles, using the MiG-21bis as a stand-in for the MiG-21MF is quite acceptable. When you consider the economics of creating a completely modeled aircraft in DCS World, variations of the same general aircraft type are going to be hard to come by. I would love to have every major MiG-21 variant and would gladly buy them all. But many if not most people that bought the MiG-21bis, aren't going to waste there money on so many variants, especially when in many cases there isn't much difference in looks and combat performance.

[The_Pharoah]

lol c'mon...everyone is pining for historical accuracy and yet for a few years we've had MP servers with missions flown by A10s, F15s, P51Ds, F86s and Hueys!! eh? I think we can accept a little inaccuracy here and there esp when we're arguing about the branches on the tree instead of the trees in the forest (or the forest at all! if you get my analogy).

 

F105, F5, A4, hopefully an F4 II vs the MIg 21BIS, Mig19. More importantly a map of Vietnam (north and south if possible) and the surrounding areas (gulf of tonkin, Cambodia, Laos, etc or parts of it like in the Normandy map)

[some1]

lol c'mon...everyone is pining for historical accuracy and yet for a few years we've had MP servers with missions flown by A10s, F15s, P51Ds, F86s and Hueys!! eh?

 

You know, there's a world outside airquake servers. Besides, if there's nothing else available, then you have to use your imagination. The thng is, a complete DCS:Vietnam product would require a bit more than just a map and repaints of existing aircraft. Just look at how much work is being put into Normandy'44 map and assets, and it still leaves a lot to be desired as a WWII simulator.

 

People also tend to forget that Vietnam conflict lasted several years, different aircraft flew during Rolling Thunder or Linebacker II operations. For example, by the time MiG-21MF entered service in North Vietnam Air Force, F-105D's were withdrawn and only F-105G still flew performing SEAD missions. And there's much more to SEAD missions that we have currently in DCS.

 

An interesting read:

https://ospreypublishing.com/f-105-wild-weasel-vs-sa-2-guideline-sam

https://www.amazon.com/Hunter-Killers-Extraordinary-Maverick-Dangerous/dp/0062375121

Edited June 5, 2017 by some1

[ESAc_matador]

Hunter killer is awesome.

[shab249]

A D for me, the most iconic variant for sure!!

So you want the D?

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Robert31178]

I think iether would be cool, but the F/G would seem like a bigger task to tackle as far as a functioning avionics suit.

[Stratos]

So you want the D?

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

Yes, sir!

[Angelthunder]

If Razbam plans on making several variants of the Harrier with the NA then B+ and GR7 or 9,then certainly they can make two variants of the the Thudstick the single seater D version and the Wild Weasel two seater variant together.:music_whistling:

[Kev2go]

If Razbam plans on making several variants of the Harrier with the NA then B+ and GR7 or 9,then certainly they can make two variants of the the Thudstick the single seater D version and the Wild Weasel two seater variant together.:music_whistling:

 

 

They could but still more work involved, due second seat and Multi crew.

 

Were getting the av8b NA because Ground Radar code is not accessible for devs( will come out after the F/A18C release)

 

Initially Razbam would have wanted to go straight for the Av8b harrier +, but coouldnt yet becauase of that so they deiced to make the NA first.

 

the + is in essence just the Av8B NA with a An/ApG 65 radar installed ( Radar F/a18A and Early F/A18C hornets used pre 1994, whilst post 1994 C's were installed with the improved AN/APG 73) , with aim7 and Aim120 Capability. Thus just a couple extra pages for a2a and A2G modes to be accessible through the left or right Multi function displays, being able to mount medium range missiles, and just a bit of exterior 3d remodeling to have a bit longer nose where the radar is now installed.

 

so eventually with hornet release at some point razbam will make this second version because this was in thier initial plans and because its just those additional features.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Kev2go

[mvsgas]

3oui_fdcjkI

 

SDybOCwkshw

 

[Robert31178]

Nice Gas lol, fan them flames eh?

 

:-)

[Mig Fulcrum]

Personally I would prefer the D version

[Christophe D]

Me too, the D version.

[Maverick966]

I prefer the D!

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

AWISE FROM YOU GWAVE

[Blaze1]

They could but still more work involved, due second seat and Multi crew.

 

Were getting the av8b NA because Ground Radar code is not accessible for devs( will come out after the F/A18C release)

 

Initially Razbam would have wanted to go straight for the Av8b harrier +, but coouldnt yet becauase of that so they deiced to make the NA first.

 

the + is in essence just the Av8B NA with a An/ApG 65 radar installed ( Radar F/a18A and Early F/A18C hornets used pre 1994, whilst post 1994 C's were installed with the improved AN/APG 73) , with aim7 and Aim120 Capability. Thus just a couple extra pages for a2a and A2G modes to be accessible through the left or right Multi function displays, being able to mount medium range missiles, and just a bit of exterior 3d remodeling to have a bit longer nose where the radar is now installed.

 

so eventually with hornet release at some point razbam will make this second version because this was in thier initial plans and because its just those additional features.

They'd need to get data to model AIM-120 capability, as they only have/had access to the 1998 and 2002 TACMAN which is well out of date.