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Importance of Rudder Controls


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How much tougher would it be to pilot the effectively without rudder controls, on a scale of 1 - 10? How much tougher would it make other airframes? I don't have any good rudder control options available, so I'm trying to work out how much tougher that will make DCS World.

 

I'll be grateful for any input you can offer.

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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Rudder is very good for crosswinds to straighten an aircraft out before touchdown. On a dual engined aircraft it's not a massive issue as they can use the engines to help them yaw. On a single engine it'd be a larger problem but can be worked around, you'll have to use a bit of roll.

 

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Rudder is very good for crosswinds to straighten an aircraft out before touchdown. On a dual engined aircraft it's not a massive issue as they can use the engines to help them yaw. On a single engine it'd be a larger problem but can be worked around, you'll have to use a bit of roll.

 

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Thanks for the response, much obliged, and glad to know it seems like a manageable issue. Do you think it would make it tougher to fight?

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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I would rank having some form of rudder control at a 10 on a scale of 1-10. For the most part you can fly jets without rudder, but if you lose an engine in the A-10C (or any other multi-engine aircraft), you will not be able to control it for long without some form of rudder input to offset the asymmetrical yaw forces.

 

What are your control options/limitations? I am sure there is a way to work something out, or offer suggestions, if we knew more about your specific situation.

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I would rank having some form of rudder control at a 10 on a scale of 1-10. For the most part you can fly jets without rudder, but if you lose an engine in the A-10C (or any other multi-engine aircraft), you will not be able to control it for long without some form of rudder input to offset the asymmetrical yaw forces.

 

What are your control options/limitations? I am sure there is a way to work something out, or offer suggestions, if we knew more about your specific situation.

 

Thanks for the reply, it's good to know that it may be necessary in that situation.

 

I have a TM Warthog HOTAS that I hoped to leave at defaults, I do have one unassigned slider that looks like the best option right now, but I need to take my eyes off the screen for a second or two while relocating, and it means taking my hand off the throttle. Using the keyboard means taking my eyes off the screen for a few seconds and taking my hand off the throttle, which might be ok while lining up a landing or something similar, but I figured I couldn't do that while under fire. It's questionable whether I'm physically able to use pedals, so I'm iffy on spending the money in case it's a waste.

 

Reading that paragraph back, it seems like I've put a lot of emphasis on keeping my eyes on the screen and being able to adjust throttle and yaw at the same time. Is that important, or could I get away with looking away from the screen for a little while and adjusting throttle and rudder as an either/or during fights?

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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Don't forget you also have rudder trim for engine-out situations.

 

Generally rudder is pretty critical during TO and LDG to maintain centerline - but during flight most pilots I have flown with seem to just use them as footrests, not for coordinating turns lol.

but obviously looking away during TO and LDG is not ideal, and it involves dynamic rudder use, not set-and-forget.

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Don't forget you also have rudder trim for engine-out situations.

 

Generally rudder is pretty critical during TO and LDG to maintain centerline - but during flight most pilots I have flown with seem to just use them as footrests, not for coordinating turns lol.

but obviously looking away during TO and LDG is not ideal, and it involves dynamic rudder use, not set-and-forget.

 

Ah yeah thanks. I'm not great with landing and it often seems to be that I'm not lined up right, I guess that would be why lol.

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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Something that might work for you is setting up the paddle switch as a modifier, then use the trim hat on your stick to set up some rudder trim. You won't need to take your hands of your HOTAS or look away from anything.

 

That's a great idea Sryan, thank you, I will try that! I hadn't considered using the paddle as a modifier.

 

How much pressure does it take to actuate rudder pedals, compared to, say, a car brake pedal? As much/more, half as much etc? If someone has a more fitting analogy I'm all ears (eyes?)?

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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Why not do the same thing with any axis binding or switch that won't alter your normal flight controls..

 

example: Modifier + paddle = rudder

and: Modifier + Trim Switch = rudder trim

 

(^^Just an example.. I don't know what the paddle switch is, I don't own the warthog stick)

 

btw, I use my Keyboard for multiple MFCD/CDU/Weapons and more in VR/blind folded basically (never need to look at the keyboard)

 

To make this work, I assign controls that are very obvious and easy to find for my fingers. SPACE BAR and LEFT/RIGHT/DOWN/UP are very easy to find and become very natural once you get the habit down.

 

I then use a simple modifier that is near the same keys to control other things. My point is, make it easy to find and use modifiers.

 

(at the same time, I don't recommend any keyboard commands for flight controls besides trim, which is not necessary considering you have a trim switch)

 

Just some more thoughts to help you!

 

 

 

and Pressure? Based on the scenario, just like a car. This changes depending on weather and emergencies. Clear skies? not sure I know what a rudder is!

 

Don't forget you can adjust the "curve" on some settings and it makes it more smooth (depending)


Edited by SharkBaztard
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Question on the Warthog stick.

I see the 3 switches on the throttle (thumb)

1)Speed Brake

2)Boat Switch

3)China Hat

 

^Do any of these, fall/spring back into center when you let go or are they all "switches" (if they spring back to center, then modify one of those!

 

Maybe one of these? "Mic Switch"/"Slew Control"/"Coolie Hat" modified would be a nice fit for a temp rudder control.


Edited by SharkBaztard
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Question on the Warthog stick.

I see the 3 switches on the throttle (thumb)

1)Speed Brake

2)Boat Switch

3)China Hat

 

^Do any of these, fall/spring back into center when you let go or are they all "switches" (if they spring back to center, then modify one of those!

 

Maybe on of these? "Mic Switch"/"Slew Control"/"Coolie Hat" modified would be a nice fit for a temp rudder control.

 

Yes, the China hat does and that's very easy to use, thank you!

 

I believe that solves the problem. Thank you all very much, the help and insight wad invaluable

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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I really don't know if you can "axis tune" the china hat.. but if you can, try it on a "curve" of maybe 20? so Its not too responsive. Not sure its possible

 

 

Just had a small laugh..speaking of "importance of rudder" in a A10C specifically, completely forgot; to turn the plane on the tarmac & taxi, nose wheel steering requires the same control surface input.


Edited by SharkBaztard
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  • 2 weeks later...
How much tougher would it be to pilot the effectively without rudder controls, on a scale of 1 - 10? How much tougher would it make other airframes? I don't have any good rudder control options available, so I'm trying to work out how much tougher that will make DCS World.

 

I'll be grateful for any input you can offer.

 

On the A10 with perfectly working computers and engines, probably just a 2. Mainly needed during slow flight and landing.

 

On a P51D, 100. Impossible to fly without a rudder.

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On the A10 with perfectly working computers and engines, probably just a 2. Mainly needed during slow flight and landing.

 

On a P51D, 100. Impossible to fly without a rudder.

 

 

 

Same here, I never use the rudder apart from taxi to/from runway etc, I had x55 recently and it had the twist stick which was handy. Warthog needed pedals so got the tm ones. It's certainly more immersive with the pedals, but I don't use them in flight with a perfect a10.

i5-7600K @ 4.8 | 32GB | 1080 | Rift S | TM MFD & WH HOTAS-10mm ext + TFRP

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That's a great idea Sryan, thank you, I will try that! I hadn't considered using the paddle as a modifier.

 

How much pressure does it take to actuate rudder pedals, compared to, say, a car brake pedal? As much/more, half as much etc? If someone has a more fitting analogy I'm all ears (eyes?)?

 

 

How much pressure needed to actuate the rudder pedals depends on what rudder pedals you use. I have the Thrustmaster T-Rudder, and they move very smoothly, and don't take much pressure at all. I've heard others have way more resistance, to give a more realistic feel, but they are also more expensive. This is all assuming you meant sim-pedals, and not IRL rudders.

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How much pressure needed to actuate the rudder pedals depends on what rudder pedals you use. I have the Thrustmaster T-Rudder, and they move very smoothly, and don't take much pressure at all. I've heard others have way more resistance, to give a more realistic feel, but they are also more expensive. This is all assuming you meant sim-pedals, and not IRL rudders.

 

On most sim pedals resistance is adjustable. Some easier (friction knob), some a bit complicated (spring swap).

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Thanks everyone! After reading all of your comments I now have a set of Thrustmaster pedals. It was a much less nerve-racking experience having input from you all :-)

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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Just to add my 3 cents, what I use the rudder for quite often (apart from the obvious taxiing and crabbing) are the gun attack runs. With some training works perfectly well to get the targets to the left and right from what you are aiming at.

 

And I recall reading in one of the books (either Kosovo, Iraq or Afghanistan, can't remember now) of this being done by pilots in real life. But not sure, maybe it was in one of the A-10 based fictional novels.

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Just to add my 3 cents, what I use the rudder for quite often (apart from the obvious taxiing and crabbing) are the gun attack runs. With some training works perfectly well to get the targets to the left and right from what you are aiming at.

 

And I recall reading in one of the books (either Kosovo, Iraq or Afghanistan, can't remember now) of this being done by pilots in real life. But not sure, maybe it was in one of the A-10 based fictional novels.

 

Thanks baltic_dragon, always greasy to have input from content designers and you make a really good point. When I don't get my line right in the gun pods training, there often isn't much I can do, but if I use the rudder pedals, ut should allow me to hit the target regardless. I'll go try that now!

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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the mic switch goes inside too, not four ways, like the countermeasure ECM on stick.

 

you should get MFG Crosswinds instead of gustmaster.. I have CH and now MFG, now I can put my fingers down that MFG is the best rudder pedal out there, besides slaw, vkb. Always encourage these guys because theyre individuals that make wonders and not some company eager for profits. Priced reasonable too.

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the mic switch goes inside too, not four ways, like the countermeasure ECM on stick.

 

you should get MFG Crosswinds instead of gustmaster.. I have CH and now MFG, now I can put my fingers down that MFG is the best rudder pedal out there, besides slaw, vkb. Always encourage these guys because theyre individuals that make wonders and not some company eager for profits. Priced reasonable too.

 

If I'd read this before making my purchase I would have seriously considered it, would have been very happy to deal with an enthusiast instead. When my TFRPs need to be replaced I will go that route. I guess MFG is on these forums?

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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